Bioshock Writer Fed Up With Industry

[MrBaskerville]

The thing about game stories is that they can do somethings, but they aren´t good at everything, if you want to make something like a drama or something thought provoking, you really should consider writing a book or a movie instead. Not that there´s anything wrong what that, every media has it´s strenght and it´s weaknesses and Games strenght just happens to be gameplay and not deep involving stories.

 

[Dryk]

This sort of thread is going to crop up more and more quite soon. We've already seen an explosion in discussions of ludo-narrative dissonance lately and I'm not surprised she's completely sick of it. I am too.

 

[Strazdas]

she's worked on titles like Bioshock, Far Cry 2, and this year's Tomb Raider reboot. Those games are often heralded as superb examples of games with good writing

No. No. Far Cry 2 was an awful game and story in there were pretty much non-existen to begin with. All the story contained around 15 minutes and the rest were generic "go there kill this" missions that repeated themselves over and over and over again.
If that is a highpoint of her career away with the likes of her.

her point is clear and HAS been proved over and over. in MOST, the LARGE MAJORITY of all great game company, where the greatest art assets lie, where the big budgets are... you cannot come in with a super story and have a game built around that.

And you shouldnt. If i want a superstory i read a book. I want a game for, you know, playing. There is a game that seem to have a story nad a game then got built around it. Indigo Prophecy (or Fahrenheit as you folk know it). Thing is, while the story was really interesting to see, the gameplay was a godamn quicktime event. whole game.

Can anyone tell me what the story of the current industry juggernaut known as Minecraft is? Does anyone really care what the story of Minecraft is?

I care! I evne invented a story of being dropped into uninhabited island and having to survive to justify the lack of knowledge. Im also the kind of guy that loves cutscenes and watches more Movies thna play games though.

 

[Sarge034]

So a writer is saying the writing doesn't get enough attention? In other news programmer says not enough attention is being given to programing, art director is saying art is not given enough attention, music director says music is not given enough attention, ect ect.

While I can agree with her statements to a point, I think it might be that she need so write for different companies. Let's face it, Bioshock is as its' heart a shooter (and in my opinion had a damn fine story). The pacing will be directed by the firefights. It is inevitable. However, TellTale's The Walking Dead is an interactive point and click adventure that was all about the story. Hell, Spec Ops: The Line was a shooter with an intense story. If she truly has the writing skills she boasts then it should not be hard to link up with any company of HER choosing. You know, the companies that really value a good story... Just sayin...

 

[Ayay]

I am suprised it took her 10 years to figure out she cant write a story the way she wants, and not having the interactive gameplay get in the way.Dont get me wrong i like a good story in a game but not if it means QTE my way throu it.The prime example for me is The walking dead if it wasent for the great story i would have tossed that game after 10 min gameplay.But those games are very few.The games today follow the Action movie concept.If it makes money why try something new.

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I love this medium. If she doesn't, then don't let the door hit your ass on your way out lady.

Good luck writing your novel or whatever.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Oh for christ sake. They're games, can you really be so dense as to be surprised when the GAMEplay of the GAME take more precedence over story?

And why are we so concerned about being compared to other media? Games have different rules to films and books, and by trying to make games more like them, you cheapen the medium.

If this is the kind of person we have writing games, I'm glad she's gone.

This, because...

Speaking with Gameological, she explained that game stories are so often an afterthought, providing only enough effort to keep the player moving from one level to the next.

and I'm saying this as a writer myself, but the bolded part is all videogames really need as far as story goes.

You know the thing about the all time classic games? Games like Mario and Tetris? Or Pac Man? Even more recent titles like Angry Birds? They have squat for storytelling and yet they're the biggest names in the industry.

Does anyone really care that much about the stories behind Halo, Gears of War, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or others compared to what they're getting out of the gameplay? If the gameplay stayed the same, does anyone really think the number of players of each would change all that much based on how much more or less work was put into the story?

Can anyone tell me what the story of the current industry juggernaut known as Minecraft is? Does anyone really care what the story of Minecraft is?

Frankly, the story doesn't matter worth a hill of beans if you don't have a game worthy playing. THAT'S why story comes second to gameplay.

It's the exception and not the rule out of your examples but I play starcraft for its' story. It's the only reason I buy the sequels because I don't play online at all. Of course, if the gameplay was complete shit, I'm not sure I'd get through it.

Never played starcraft so I can't answer that one.

If FF13 had a good story I could have finished it, it doesn't so I couldn't. I found the gameplay alright and knew it became more complex later but I couldn't stomach the characters anymore to get there.

 

[MetalMagpie]

The phrase "be the change you want to see in the world" comes to mind when I read this article. If she wants to abandon ship and not be a contributor to paving the way for better storytelling in games then good riddance.

So... She admits she has the skills, but doesn't want to do the work to help make the medium better and wants to apply those skills elsewhere...

Pathetic.

She's arguing that - as a video game writer - she doesn't have enough control over the process to write the sort of stories she'd like to. And she's probably right. Video game writers don't get to sit down and write whatever story they feel passionate about. They have a brief and - more importantly - they have to make the story work around the desired gameplay.

So the only way she could "be the change you want to see in the world" is if she started her own video games company! That way, she would have far more creative control. But that's a huge thing to take on when all you really want to do is write stories.

It sounds like what she really wants to do is write novels (or maybe film/TV scripts), but is understandably hesitant about such a big career change. It's tough to make a living as a writer.

 

[JediMB]

Hopefully these talented writers will find a chance to work on indie or other "non-AAA" games, where their contributions might actually stand a chance of shaping the gameplay as much as the cutscenes.

I do miss games where violence wasn't your primary problem-solving tool.

 

[kyoodle]

That's a shame but rather than leaving wouldn't a developer that makes narrative driven, mechanically light games like Tell Tale or Quantic Dream be a better environment for her? Or even better join or form an indie studio so the story can be a part of the game's design from the beginning.
I know it's not as simple as walking in somewhere and asking for a job but someone must be looking for a decent writer.

 

[Lieju]

and I'm saying this as a writer myself, but the bolded part is all videogames really need as far as story goes.

You know the thing about the all time classic games? Games like Mario and Tetris? Or Pac Man? Even more recent titles like Angry Birds? They have squat for storytelling and yet they're the biggest names in the industry.

Does anyone really care that much about the stories behind Halo, Gears of War, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or others compared to what they're getting out of the gameplay? If the gameplay stayed the same, does anyone really think the number of players of each would change all that much based on how much more or less work was put into the story?

Can anyone tell me what the story of the current industry juggernaut known as Minecraft is? Does anyone really care what the story of Minecraft is?

Frankly, the story doesn't matter worth a hill of beans if you don't have a game worthy playing. THAT'S why story comes second to gameplay.

I think you (and a lot of people in this thread) are confusing narrative with story delivered in cutscenes.

The gameplay should be a part of the narrative in a video-game.
It might be the only way to tell the story, even.

Throwing the player character alone and defenseless into the gameworld with no explanations or weapons IS narrative, for example. It tries to evoke emotions.

The problem is that games are still growing as a medium and trying to find ways to do this, and many games are restricted by a tacked-on story that's developed separately from gameplay and that tries to ape movies.

My favorite games aren't the ones that tell a story, but the ones that let me create my own.

Such as?

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

So... She admits she has the skills, but doesn't want to do the work to help make the medium better and wants to apply those skills elsewhere...

Pathetic.

You're assuming she has any meaningful say in the game's development. There's more to a great story for a video game than just the writing.

 

[hazydawn]

these differences are why the other mediums even exist. and why video games have the potential to be the best, because A) they're so young (gotta remember our idea of novels has been around since the 11th century! and films been going since the 1800s) and B) that user input adds a level of depth and escapism that books and movies can never have.

Well written! But I wouldn't call this depth escapism, rather immersion or "reality effect". I don't believe people generally praise a book, movie or play by saying that it allows for great escapism. ^^

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

I really fear for O'Conner that she might only think the grass is greener elsewhere.

If you are working for the industry even when writing books, the mainstream tropics and settings is the only thing that gets approved by big publishers.

For some reason there is a vast gap between publisher's (any media) disappreciation of original (and therefore unproven to make money) stories and the audience that, for the very most part, values and rewards original stories.

And face it: in MOST media production 50% of the budget goes marketing 40% to presentation and tech side, 9% to the catering service, and the rest is devided between the cleaning personal, the headmaster and his dog and script writer(s).

How much you get paid for an original script is humiliating. Words are cheap indeed.

 

[eberhart]

she's worked on titles like Bioshock, Far Cry 2, and this year's Tomb Raider reboot. Those games are often heralded as superb examples of games with good writing

No. No. Far Cry 2 was an awful game and story in there were pretty much non-existen to begin with. All the story contained around 15 minutes and the rest were generic "go there kill this" missions that repeated themselves over and over and over again.
If that is a highpoint of her career away with the likes of her.

She also worked on story gems like Gears of War, Crysis Warhead, Dungeon Siege 2, Act of War: Direct Action... Annnnnd my confidence in her loses one additional point... Then I see her saying something like:

But the more savvy I got - and I've been working on these great projects that are arguably the best ever made - it's like, 'This is the mountaintop, and this still isn't cutting it

...and my confidence is gone. Now I am not sure she knows what she is even talking about. If stuff she worked on seems "arguably the best ever made" (at least it's "arguably"!) to her, especially in writing department, then either she simply lacks perspective (which is hard to believe) or is amazingly arrogant (why not, free advertisement with an interview after all).

 

[IronMit]

the amopunt of "DENSE" in this thread is too high.

For fuck sakes........

her point is clear and HAS been proved over and over. in MOST, the LARGE MAJORITY of all great game company, where the greatest art assets lie, where the big budgets are... you cannot come in with a super story and have a game built around that.

in MOST cases, it's the other way around. There is a mechanic, a game is built around that. Then the story gets added in, and it has to fit all the possibilities and limitations of the mechanics already agreed by the technical team. Even if they
have no point in the story the writer would like to tell, regardless of how good it may be.

It's like you getting a book deal worldwide where you are told to write a book but are given a box with marketing assets and description of characters, places and events that your book must contain. It can be done, it can even be good, but you will never be able to create the book the way you want to.

Unless you move to a lower tier developer and very specialized games.

her point being that when i want story in my game i should not just look out for Telltalle or the next look-alike. i Should be able to find it in any game that sells itself with a story. So, not ALL games must have a big grand story... but those who do, should be more honest about it. You don't have your engine designer and lead artist defining what a writer can or cannot write about... that's not how you do story properly. And yet, this is how games are done.

So... she can't simply "trailblaze". It's stupid and near sighted to even come to that conclusion. The fact is that, any great writer that want to work in games has 3 options... have a publisher love your work so much that they make games FOR your book (witcher) even if they butch the story here and there... or have your story completely drive the game in lower tiers and tiny budgets (as most indies do). Or get a big paycheck for a big selling game earned in a job well done in a story you wrote by connecting the dots that a bunch of non-writers gave to you.

That's the landscape we have right now, and guess what? the VERY FEW good examples of story leading design of a story based game don't annul the fact that the majority of story driven games is lead by mechanics. And not all writers want that, because it's a limitation of freedom of creativity impose just to market it more.

That's her argument. it's not hard to understand... i baffle to see just how many people here so blindly missed such a simple point.

Exactly

Most people in this thread have completely missed the point. It's actually scary how off the mark people have gone...I can only assume that most of them just skimmed the article.

The point is the writing and story is constrained by needing to justify shooting 400 people in the face. Either the writing suffers or ludo-narrative dissonance occurs...or mostly both. This subtracts from the experience as a whole.

Some people don't care about ludo-narrative dissonance, which is fine..but you have to understand that some writers would.

Sadly the investment needed to make a AAA game means that publishers will only green light what's safe...and those are shooters and certain rpg's. She has a good resumé, she could find some indie dev team or something

''but I really want to tell different kinds of stories, and I don't know if games are the right place for the stories I want to tell.''
Gaming might always be constrained by the mechanics available, budgets and publisher decisions. She may never be completely satisfied. It's just a writer talking about weather the game industry is a a good place for her personally to be creative. Our opinions on what games stories should be has no bearing on weather this writer feels for-filled or not. Different writer's will be happier in different industries

 

[Strazdas]

she's worked on titles like Bioshock, Far Cry 2, and this year's Tomb Raider reboot. Those games are often heralded as superb examples of games with good writing

No. No. Far Cry 2 was an awful game and story in there were pretty much non-existen to begin with. All the story contained around 15 minutes and the rest were generic "go there kill this" missions that repeated themselves over and over and over again.
If that is a highpoint of her career away with the likes of her.

She also worked on story gems like Gears of War, Crysis Warhead, Dungeon Siege 2, Act of War: Direct Action... Annnnnd my confidence in her loses one additional point... Then I see her saying something like:

But the more savvy I got - and I've been working on these great projects that are arguably the best ever made - it's like, 'This is the mountaintop, and this still isn't cutting it

...and my confidence is gone. Now I am not sure she knows what she is even talking about. If stuff she worked on seems "arguably the best ever made" (at least it's "arguably"!) to her, especially in writing department, then either she simply lacks perspective (which is hard to believe) or is amazingly arrogant (why not, free advertisement with an interview after all).

Well Crysis warhead writting was on par with thep roduct - it was a graphics first old school FPS (go in, shoot, dont ask questions) and the writting was fit for that. I do agree about other stuff.

My favorite games aren't the ones that tell a story, but the ones that let me create my own.

Such as?

There are plenty to choose. Eve recently did a community even where people got to write their own stories that they created in games and community voted which oens to keep. they can be found at https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/top
Eve online is a sandbox. it has a story, a great one in fact, but the interactions there are not scripted. people create the game, invent new ways to play it, and as a result has stories far better than any writer can come up with. and you know why? because they are real and you (not some imagined character) are part of it.

 

[Eleuthera]

Games would be so much better if they had a fast-forward button which enabled me to skip combat.

Yes, I noticed the irony tag. But there are actually quite a few games where I would really like that option. I enjoy (interactive) storytelling in games. The Mass Effect games would be a lot more fun, and have a lot more re-playability (for me) if I could just skip the very annoying combat sections, and just play the rest of the game.

Do all games need to have (or be) sprawling stories? Of course not, but some games could definitely do with a bit more focus on making the gameplay fit the story.

 

[Falsename]

Stories vary depending on the medium they're being expressed through. Hence why it's difficult to convert a novel to film without sacrificing much of the written narrative to cater to the audience at the cinema.

Don't believe me? List the amount of video games directly converted from a movie that you enjoyed for the narrative. Can't do it can you. =P


But video game narratives and stories have become drastically more impressive in the last year alone. Examples? Far Cry 3, Bioshock Infinite and a few others. And that's because the writers took a few chances and they were a success. More chances will be taken, better stories and more 'art'.

(Honestly Bioshock Infinite is the only game I classify as officially 'art'. Child of Eden aswell. But in the same way that movies aren't art. Movies are movies, books are books and all that).


What this writer is saying isn't 'I'm fed up'. It's an attempt to give other writers a kick in the butt.


Video games are no longer developing, they're developed. Now they can start to be branched out and experimented on. Don't worry, everything will be fine.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

I'm confused. People think that Farcry 2 and Tomb Raider were well written?

Does anyone really care that much about the stories behind Halo, Gears of War, Starcraft, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or others compared to what they're getting out of the gameplay?

Yes.

I have a friend who refused to buy Heart of the Swarm because he heard what happens to Kerrigan in the story. Also he quit World of Warcraft because of what they did to the Warcraft story line.