Bioshock Writer Fed Up With Industry
- Thread starter Cognimancer
- Start date
I really fear for O'Conner that she might only think the grass is greener elsewhere.
If you are working for the industry even when writing books, the mainstream tropics and settings is the only thing that gets approved by big publishers.
For some reason there is a vast gap between publisher's (any media) disappreciation of original (and therefore unproven to make money) stories and the audience that, for the very most part, values and rewards original stories.
And face it: in MOST media production 50% of the budget goes marketing 40% to presentation and tech side, 9% to the catering service, and the rest is devided between the cleaning personal, the headmaster and his dog and script writer(s).
How much you get paid for an original script is humiliating. Words are cheap indeed.
If you are working for the industry even when writing books, the mainstream tropics and settings is the only thing that gets approved by big publishers.
For some reason there is a vast gap between publisher's (any media) disappreciation of original (and therefore unproven to make money) stories and the audience that, for the very most part, values and rewards original stories.
And face it: in MOST media production 50% of the budget goes marketing 40% to presentation and tech side, 9% to the catering service, and the rest is devided between the cleaning personal, the headmaster and his dog and script writer(s).
How much you get paid for an original script is humiliating. Words are cheap indeed.
Strazdas said:
She also worked on story gems like Gears of War, Crysis Warhead, Dungeon Siege 2, Act of War: Direct Action... Annnnnd my confidence in her loses one additional point... Then I see her saying something like:
...and my confidence is gone. Now I am not sure she knows what she is even talking about. If stuff she worked on seems "arguably the best ever made" (at least it's "arguably"!) to her, especially in writing department, then either she simply lacks perspective (which is hard to believe) or is amazingly arrogant (why not, free advertisement with an interview after all).
Exactlybells said:
Most people in this thread have completely missed the point. It's actually scary how off the mark people have gone...I can only assume that most of them just skimmed the article.
The point is the writing and story is constrained by needing to justify shooting 400 people in the face. Either the writing suffers or ludo-narrative dissonance occurs...or mostly both. This subtracts from the experience as a whole.
Some people don't care about ludo-narrative dissonance, which is fine..but you have to understand that some writers would.
Sadly the investment needed to make a AAA game means that publishers will only green light what's safe...and those are shooters and certain rpg's. She has a good resumé, she could find some indie dev team or something
''but I really want to tell different kinds of stories, and I don't know if games are the right place for the stories I want to tell.''
Gaming might always be constrained by the mechanics available, budgets and publisher decisions. She may never be completely satisfied. It's just a writer talking about weather the game industry is a a good place for her personally to be creative. Our opinions on what games stories should be has no bearing on weather this writer feels for-filled or not. Different writer's will be happier in different industries
Well Crysis warhead writting was on par with thep roduct - it was a graphics first old school FPS (go in, shoot, dont ask questions) and the writting was fit for that. I do agree about other stuff.eberhart said:
There are plenty to choose. Eve recently did a community even where people got to write their own stories that they created in games and community voted which oens to keep. they can be found at https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/topLieju said:
Eve online is a sandbox. it has a story, a great one in fact, but the interactions there are not scripted. people create the game, invent new ways to play it, and as a result has stories far better than any writer can come up with. and you know why? because they are real and you (not some imagined character) are part of it.
Yes, I noticed the irony tag. But there are actually quite a few games where I would really like that option. I enjoy (interactive) storytelling in games. The Mass Effect games would be a lot more fun, and have a lot more re-playability (for me) if I could just skip the very annoying combat sections, and just play the rest of the game.Yosharian said:
Do all games need to have (or be) sprawling stories? Of course not, but some games could definitely do with a bit more focus on making the gameplay fit the story.
Stories vary depending on the medium they're being expressed through. Hence why it's difficult to convert a novel to film without sacrificing much of the written narrative to cater to the audience at the cinema.
Don't believe me? List the amount of video games directly converted from a movie that you enjoyed for the narrative. Can't do it can you. =P
But video game narratives and stories have become drastically more impressive in the last year alone. Examples? Far Cry 3, Bioshock Infinite and a few others. And that's because the writers took a few chances and they were a success. More chances will be taken, better stories and more 'art'.
(Honestly Bioshock Infinite is the only game I classify as officially 'art'. Child of Eden aswell. But in the same way that movies aren't art. Movies are movies, books are books and all that).
What this writer is saying isn't 'I'm fed up'. It's an attempt to give other writers a kick in the butt.
Video games are no longer developing, they're developed. Now they can start to be branched out and experimented on. Don't worry, everything will be fine.
Don't believe me? List the amount of video games directly converted from a movie that you enjoyed for the narrative. Can't do it can you. =P
But video game narratives and stories have become drastically more impressive in the last year alone. Examples? Far Cry 3, Bioshock Infinite and a few others. And that's because the writers took a few chances and they were a success. More chances will be taken, better stories and more 'art'.
(Honestly Bioshock Infinite is the only game I classify as officially 'art'. Child of Eden aswell. But in the same way that movies aren't art. Movies are movies, books are books and all that).
What this writer is saying isn't 'I'm fed up'. It's an attempt to give other writers a kick in the butt.
Video games are no longer developing, they're developed. Now they can start to be branched out and experimented on. Don't worry, everything will be fine.
I'm confused. People think that Farcry 2 and Tomb Raider were well written?
I have a friend who refused to buy Heart of the Swarm because he heard what happens to Kerrigan in the story. Also he quit World of Warcraft because of what they did to the Warcraft story line.
Yes.Space Jawa said:
I have a friend who refused to buy Heart of the Swarm because he heard what happens to Kerrigan in the story. Also he quit World of Warcraft because of what they did to the Warcraft story line.
Very true, an example of how a narrative for a video game must be different to that of any other medium. (Novels/Films, etc).HaraDaya said:
Examples:
-Halo is scripted and tells a story.
-Skyrim throws you into a world and allows you to create your own. Not with choices in a story, but with whether you choose that particular story.
I remember in skyrim when I fought in the battle of Whiterun with my Thane. Both in stormcloak armour because you might aswell look the part. The drawbridge was down and we were on our way inside before I realised she was no longer following me. She had been killed by an arrow, (probably a stray one considering that no one attacks a downed companion).
I quit the rebellion after that battle, went to the mage's college and majored in conjuration. Mostly in reanimating the dead... no sure why exactly. Something about losing a close companion and wishing that mortality wasn't permanent I guess.
That's my example of my own story created in a video game. (Granted I was playing Skyrim in that 'Hardcore' difficulty mode. You know, playing on Expert and abandoning your game if you ever die).
Aaaaand now I've forgotten what exactly I was talking about.
Tomb Raider has a lot of stuff happening in it. Characters, island backstory, character development, and then the actual stuff that happens.... not amazing..but not bad. Killing 300 people on the island in an extended corridor subtracts from that though.Mycroft Holmes said:
So a writer's response to bad writing is to leave the industry? That'll sure solve a lot.
Wonder what would happen if every drop in the sea realised how small it is and how little influence it has on the power of a wave, and evaporated out of disappointment.
But that said, I find it funny that the writer of a game where an archeology student unexpectedly develops weapons training holds that there should be reasons for shooting people. I can think of plenty of reasons Lara Croft shouldn't have been shooting people as easily as she did.
Wonder what would happen if every drop in the sea realised how small it is and how little influence it has on the power of a wave, and evaporated out of disappointment.
But that said, I find it funny that the writer of a game where an archeology student unexpectedly develops weapons training holds that there should be reasons for shooting people. I can think of plenty of reasons Lara Croft shouldn't have been shooting people as easily as she did.
She should write for RPGs. The content is slightly more "varied".
Even so, games can tolerate a certain amount of "absurdity". The trick is to properly focus the player's attention on the dramatic parts (which have to be kept straight) so they can close an eye with regards to the "nonsensical" parts.
Look at the JRPGs over the years. You go in to people's house and just walk out with their stuff. Enemies drop all sort of weird crap. There are random floating balls that contain items. Characters grow stronger by choose stuff from some kind of grid that exist heaven knows where.
Even so, games can tolerate a certain amount of "absurdity". The trick is to properly focus the player's attention on the dramatic parts (which have to be kept straight) so they can close an eye with regards to the "nonsensical" parts.
Look at the JRPGs over the years. You go in to people's house and just walk out with their stuff. Enemies drop all sort of weird crap. There are random floating balls that contain items. Characters grow stronger by choose stuff from some kind of grid that exist heaven knows where.
There is only so much one person can do. Games are a collaborative process, and she points out that writers are brought late into the project, after the genre, characters, art, setting and levels have already been decided upon by others. The writer is given very few decisions, and very little to work with. Other writers have reported similar frustrations. Even the likes of Ken levine still have to bow to producers, "market expectations", budgeting, franchise consistency etc. before they've even begun to pen a story for a game. I can appreciate a creative person wanting to get away from such a restrictive and poorly ordered process. In movies, they write the story before production starts.Corven said:
People have mentioned that she should be the change she wants to see but I think the point she's wanting to make is that game developers don't WANT good stories in their games because they treat them with less respect than the technical aspect of the cutscenes which are meant to deliver the story. She could rewrite Shakespeare with lasers and dinosaurs and it wouldn't matter unless the developers were willing to spend the time and money to work it into their game.
If you were a genius psychologist who took a job on the internet responding to tweets with other tweets, would you try to help people change their lives in 140 characters or would you move to a professional psychology clinic where your patient count is much lower but your impact is much more significant? Susan O'Connor is simply making that decision.
If you were a genius psychologist who took a job on the internet responding to tweets with other tweets, would you try to help people change their lives in 140 characters or would you move to a professional psychology clinic where your patient count is much lower but your impact is much more significant? Susan O'Connor is simply making that decision.
As both her and Rhianna Pratchett pointed out, a game writer's job is limited to providing a justification for why Lara is shooting things, not deciding whether she should be shooting things in the first place; those decisions get made long before they are hired. That's what frustrates them.MeChaNiZ3D said:
