BioWare Could Move Away from Fantasy and Sci-Fi

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
DustyDrB said:
PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please please please please please please please...I really want a good pirate RPG. Want to know how badly I want one? I'm pre-ordering Risen 2: Dark Waters. I'm not expecting quality, just a kind of game I've been wanting for a long time.

Give me my ArrrPGs, already!
The problem with pirate RPGs is coming up with something to do with them. Such games typically come down to arguements about fantasy vs. simulation, with the sim crowd usually winning out. Once you start focusing on recreating the period, it kind of limits things as you wind up only having so many options for what you can do. Your bestiary pretty much winds up being "humans with swords and guns", and after hundreds of hours boating around in one pirate game it tends to become old hat when you run into another one. More detailed RPG mechanics can only add so much to the same basic activities.

I thought Disney's "Pirates Of The Carribean" MMORPG had potential for breaking the mould but it seemed to be too kid friendly, too focused on fitting in movie referances and characters, and by way of being too kid friendly involved things like where you couldn't shoot people with guns (I'm not kidding) one of those "WTF" things because even if your talking about emulating the movies, they certainly have no compunction about shooting each other with pistols.... needless to say I was disappointed and felt they wasted what could have been a really good liscence for adding enough elements to the pirate formula to keep it interesting, especially if they wanted to stray away from the movie a bit more and focus on it being "the world of..." more than such a literal use of the liscence.
 

mireko

Umbasa
Sep 23, 2010
2,003
0
0
SageRuffin said:
rickynumber24 said:
Every time I see someone bring up Jade Empire, I can't help thinking that last thing. Well, except for the fact that I'm a bigger fan of sci-fi. I just wish you could have done cooler things with the martial arts.
You know what I just thought of reading this? If BioWare managed to co-develop a Jade Empire sequel with none other than the infamous Team Ninja.

Hang on, before you bring up Other M, recall that Team Ninja made Ninja Gaiden Black, one of the best action games of the previous generation. Seriously, check this video out:

Well, of course it wouldn't play exactly like that, but think of the possibilities! :D

Erm... sorry. A little too much root beer. :p
Better idea: Platinum Games. They made one of the best action games of this generation.

Think about it, Jade Empire meets Bayonetta. You know it makes sense.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Steampunk please, oh god please. If Bioware made a deal with Girl Genius I might implode from happiness :3

DustyDrB said:
PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me my ArrrPGs, already!
This would also be cool ARRR!
Aye, yer a lady of the sea! Shall I fetch ye a bottle o' rum?
 

Android2137

New member
Feb 2, 2010
813
0
0
Shouldn't Fantasy and Sci-Fi be considered settings rather than genres? I know having more than one genre is a common thing, but think about it. Action, Adventure, Mystery, Romance, etc. are things that can happen anywhere, anywhen. They also say something about the personality of the characters involved. Are they brave? Are they tenacious? Are they intelligent? Do they let emotions rule their decisions? Fantasy and Sci-Fi only decide what tools and obstacles are available to both protagonists and antagonists.

Wait, what was my point here? Ummm... I think I got lost on my opinions on technicalities. But Bioware can make a good engrossing story. I'm sure they can manage just fine without the exotic sparkle Fantasy and Sci-Fi tend to provide.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
6,157
0
0
GiantRaven said:
Hristo Tzonkov said:
Maybe redo Arcanum?
If an Arcanum remake were ever to come around, I'd much rather Obsidian were the developers. They showed they could handle an open world game when they released New Vegas.
Despite wanting a Steampunk RPG I agree Obsidian would definately be a better choice for the Arcanum license. Bioware could certainly create a new IP with a steampunk style though.

DustyDrB said:
Aye, yer a lady of the sea! Shall I fetch ye a bottle o' rum?
Yarrr matey!
 

PrinceofPersia

New member
Sep 17, 2010
321
0
0
1) Well it was about time. and 2) How about some superheroes! I recommend the Mutants and Masterminds Freedom City Universe. 3) Try Mystery or Disaster genres.
 

Ignatz_Zwakh

New member
Sep 3, 2010
1,408
0
0
A psychedelic 60's conspiracy-theory RPG. Complete with cyborg assassins from the future and weird Lovecraftian sex! Of course, there would also be deities condemned to wander the Earth and new-age anarchist's with absurd hair-cuts and even more absurd names. Can't forget about those!
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Xzi said:
because one of the things we want to do is really try and broaden our appeal, broaden our reach, sell more units, get more fans.
Well we all know what happened to DA2 when they started talking like this. FYI, Bioware, turning RPGs into action-adventure games does NOT broaden your appeal, it just alienates your base and gets a resounding meh from everyone else.

It's like this, nerds and geeks represent a solid audience that can bring in a pretty heavy profit.

The sheeple brought into the market nowadays however outnumber us by a substantial number. Sales to them, outperform sales to us. The basic attitude is one where the guys running the gaming industry figure they would rather give up a solid audience, for a potentially bigger audience, to make more money. There is no loyalty to consumers, and we're seeing that applies to the game industry. Right now, much like bands that "sell out we're seeing developers insisting they don't owe the users that made them what they are anything. All they care about is adding another wing to their giant castle made of money. We all hoped that things would be differant from an industry that for so many years said "hey, we're nerds and gamers just like you guys", but well... we are where we are. We're not the first group of consumers to get stabbed in the back by those we trusted and supported.

With simple games like "Farmville" showing what an appeal to a casual audience can mean in terms of profits of course game developers want that money. Having a billion dollars in profit seems pretty lame when you see that maybe you could be making tens of billions of dollars in profit. It's also not unnoticed that the sellingest games of all time right now are shooters. People are looking at how much people hate Bobby Kotick and his people, yet how they line up to pay them for the latest "Call Of Duty" game. This causes people in the industry to have their eyes rolls around like a slot machine, end up on dollar signs, before burying a knife up to it's hilt in the back of their current fan base and running off road-runner style after those potential profits.

In short, reality bites, and where the game industry was a haven for all things geek, I think it's not going to be that way much longer. As I said in another post, if you look at what the lowest common denominator watches on TV, it's sitcoms, crime/cop shows, and things like that. A science fiction/fantasy property that achieves mass appeal is pretty uncommon. Games like "the Sims" have sitcoms pretty well covered, so it's not surprising we see game companies looking at other generes that the everyman finds appealing, because if they can sell to them, they cna make more money than by selling to us. Previously there was a sort of wall of technological accessibility in the way, and it took a fairly smart person to even be able to play games, and smarter people tend to be more attracted to "geek" entertainment. With that barrier down, now the gaming industy seems to be headed in the direction of TV studios in wanting to recycle only what the ratings show will sell, and that means endless sequences of crime/spy shows and sitcoms and similar kinds of material.

I will post some very judgemental, and not very flattering posts about the subject, but at the same time I also realize there is little I, or anyone, can do to stop it, other than hold up a mirror. Of course with all of that money coming in, it's just like any other group selling out, "we don't owe you anything", and it's easy to keep right on saying that as long as the big checks keep coming in. Big piles of dollars will soothe the most damaged consciences. Unlike some situations where people like me will point out possible violent solution that people won't embrace for a variety of reasons I won't go into, even extreme responses don't work in cases like this because you can't really force a creative process. If you could, rather than paying famous and prolific writers like Steven King big bucks, publishing companies would probably just have books written by sweat shop workers in third world countries under the threat of torture... you can do rote production that way (and people do), but you can't really see things created that way. :)
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
2,005
0
0
mireko said:
Better idea: Platinum Games. They made one of the best action games of this generation.

Think about it, Jade Empire meets Bayonetta. You know it makes sense.
While I do like the way you think, what would substitute the demonic fists and boots to the teeth? The best I can think of is some weird Dragonball Z type gameplay with pyrokinesis, and... and cryokinesis... toad demons and elephant demons...

Hmm... you know, that just might work after all.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
Therumancer said:
DustyDrB said:
PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please please please please please please please...I really want a good pirate RPG. Want to know how badly I want one? I'm pre-ordering Risen 2: Dark Waters. I'm not expecting quality, just a kind of game I've been wanting for a long time.

Give me my ArrrPGs, already!
The problem with pirate RPGs is coming up with something to do with them. Such games typically come down to arguements about fantasy vs. simulation, with the sim crowd usually winning out. Once you start focusing on recreating the period, it kind of limits things as you wind up only having so many options for what you can do. Your bestiary pretty much winds up being "humans with swords and guns", and after hundreds of hours boating around in one pirate game it tends to become old hat when you run into another one. More detailed RPG mechanics can only add so much to the same basic activities.

I thought Disney's "Pirates Of The Carribean" MMORPG had potential for breaking the mould but it seemed to be too kid friendly, too focused on fitting in movie referances and characters, and by way of being too kid friendly involved things like where you couldn't shoot people with guns (I'm not kidding) one of those "WTF" things because even if your talking about emulating the movies, they certainly have no compunction about shooting each other with pistols.... needless to say I was disappointed and felt they wasted what could have been a really good liscence for adding enough elements to the pirate formula to keep it interesting, especially if they wanted to stray away from the movie a bit more and focus on it being "the world of..." more than such a literal use of the liscence.
Well those problems with the Pirates of the Carribean are both problems of Disney properties (appealing to kids) and movie properties (unwillingness to stray from the source material) in general. There are exceptions to that rule, but I wouldn't bank on a Disney-backed MMO to begin with.

I think there's room both for games that aim for historical accuracy and for those that aim for the more fantastical mythology of pirates (I'd be more excited about the latter, but would still be happy to see the former). Would they good old? For some. Every setting gets old, though.

I read earlier in the thread that you're a fan of science fiction and fantasy settings. You're probably less prone to get tired of those settings, right? And, especially with fantasy, there so many games with very similar settings, creatures, and lore. I like those settings, but do become fatigued of them. But any time such a game is truly done well, then I'm glad to play it. I don't see why that same rule wouldn't apply to pirates in games. If it's done well, it should hold your attention.
 

SuperRobot64

New member
Mar 22, 2010
71
0
0
RanD00M said:
As long as the writing isn't as bad as in DA 2 and SW:TOR and the story doesn't feel so unsubstantial as in ME2 then I'll totally play ball.
SWTOR isn't even out yet... I smell corruption.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Thedek said:
There already IS a Call of Cthulu game, that's even the name of it in fact.
There are several in fact if you want to get technical. Bethesda's "Dark Corners Of The Earth" being the most recent, but there were some like "Trail Of The Comet" or something like that not to mention "Prisoner Of Ice".

I specified "Kick Arse" because honestly I felt most of these games were lacking in one or more ways. All of them had a number of problems that I felt kept them from being a really amazing experience. For example while they got a lot of the atmosphere right, I felt "Dark Corners Of The Earth" was lacking from an investigative standpoint for a lot of it, and certain sequences like the whole Innsmouth chase suffered from being tense due to the frustration factor more than anything.

Looking at the interaction/interviewing, clue collection, and similar things in LA Noire along with the gunplay/fighting mechanics it struck me that you could probably do something very true to the RPG in spirit that way, as opposed to a shooter with some gimmicks, or an adventure puzzle game.

It occured to me that you might be able to do something like translate "Masks Of Nylarthotep" or "Horror On The Orient Express" from paper and pencil modules into a video game with all of the key material/desician points and such more or less intact so to speak.

Dark Corners Of The Earth did a lot of things right, as did some of the adventure games I mentioned, but I have yet to find a game that I think has been a definitive experience for this kind of thing, either CoC or just horror in general. There are plenty of fantasy and science fiction games I can point a finger at and say "they did that all perfectly" not so with Horror in general or even just "Call Of Cthlhu" inspired horror.
 

RanD00M

New member
Oct 26, 2008
6,947
0
0
SuperRobot64 said:
RanD00M said:
As long as the writing isn't as bad as in DA 2 and SW:TOR and the story doesn't feel so unsubstantial as in ME2 then I'll totally play ball.
SWTOR isn't even out yet... I smell corruption.
There is an hour and a half video of gameplay of it out. And at the 29:30 you will find some of the worst video game writing since mid 90's JRPGS.
 

Electric Alpaca

What's on the menu?
May 2, 2011
388
0
0
Why?

An IT consultant doesn't suddenly decide he wants to branch out and do open heart surgery, because that would be a waste of resource, talent, experience and intelligence.

I don't understand the trend that seems to be forming, the trend of developers ignoring what made them popular in the first place. It may be said it's too early to pan the flames, but if they're airing opinion publicly, it means they want feedback.

My feedback: Just stay in the zone you're (relatively) strong in and make hay where not many notice the sun shining.
 

Nfritzappa

New member
Apr 1, 2010
323
0
0
Maybe Bioware could do something in the style of Chrono-Trigger where its a time-traveling rpg, where all your decisions made in the past you travel to are immediately seen as consequences when you travel to the future.
 

infohippie

New member
Oct 1, 2009
2,369
0
0
Cop drama? Spies? Yawn. What boring genres they are. And this coming on the heels of that steaming pile of Dragon Age 2? Farewell Bioware, you were good back in the day.
 

Drunkbot

New member
Nov 9, 2010
70
0
0
Is historical fiction still fantasy?

I would love a Bioware game set against the Opium Wars. There's even a couple of them so they have sequels ready and waiting.
 

Hungry Donner

Henchman
Mar 19, 2009
1,369
0
0
Personally I think we need more RPGs that don't have fantasy or science-fiction settings. I understand the appeal of these settings for RPGs, in a "real" setting the RPG mechanics stand out more. However even if you keep to speculative fiction there are other options to explore, and I think historic and contemporary settings have a lot to offer.
Drunkbot said:
Is historical fiction still fantasy?

I would love a Bioware game set against the Opium Wars. There's even a couple of them so they have sequels ready and waiting.
You can have a historic setting with magic added and then it would be fantasy, but if you're keeping it historic and real world then it wouldn't be fantasy. (I'd love to see a game set during the Opium Wars as well.)