BioWare Dates Mass Effect 3: Leviathan

[Terminate421]

snip

I think the main problem some will have is that we already know the ending and while getting this DLC will effect it, the way they handled the ending kinda feels like it killed most replay value for the game.

Dawnguard exists because it's more to explore to a game like Skyrim, a game about Exploration and your influence on people and locations. This can be done at any point in the game and has no effect on the overall story.

Mass Effect is about picking choices and they affect later choices down the line, for instance, if I said that this DLC influenced the ending to where it just says the leviathan exists or is in a scene at the end of the game, I'd be disapointed as hell. If the DLC could do more damage to the ending, as in, making the fight completely different, that would totally be worth the money in my opinion.

Either way, I'm not really on anyone's side in this debate. If you want to learn more about the reapers, fine, go for it. More power to you. I just don't really have the will after I beat the Mass Effect 3 campaign.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Yet no one calls the same foul when Dawnguard came out, or when ME2 overlord came out years ago, or when knights of the nine came out for Oblivion...the list goes on; DLC or even expansions tied into the original game aren't unusual and normally don't get the same amount of skepticism.

But in all of those cases, the fiction in which the DLC was set was ongoing. They could very easily have taken place after the main storyline had been completed. Not so with Leviathan. Mass Effect 3 ended Mass Effect. How do you compellingly follow up on that?

Considering the ending of Mass Effect 3 itself wasn't very compelling itself, this would probably be extremely difficult to do yes.

Right, i'm still butthurt about the ending. Sorry world. Not interested. My give-a-damn is broken. I used to be a Biodrone, now i'm out. DA3 is gonna be a hard sell for me, and i'm one of 5 people in the world that liked it apparently.

 

[Falsename]

Who'd have thought you could turn a "This is when DLC comes out" article into "Mass effect's Ending; didn't want! Derp derp".

Don't get me wrong, i didn't like the endings either, but it sounds to me like the author doesn't grasp the idea that Mass effect 3 is the final chapter. What more could they add to it really? Post Ending DLC would be.... well.... silly.


You know what I was thinking the other day? What if they gave mass effect a new character. Not in the 3rd game, I mean a pack that stretched from the first game right through to the last. Example; a salarian soldier or something.

You wouldn't sell it too well just in the first game, but if it was a package for all three. You could keep adding to the mass effect games forever if you did that (not saying that that's what should happen of course).

But anyway. Food for thought.

 

[lapan]

Still not gonna buy or play Mass Effect 3

 

[putowtin]

All I know is it gives me an excuse to play ME3 again!

And more Garrus time, surely that's worth 7 quid!?!

 

[SonicWaffle]

And I'm seriously looking forward to meeting Leviathan. I may even buy it dinner... (What food do Reapers eat?)

At a guess, you.

 

[Zortack]

Yet no one calls the same foul when Dawnguard came out, or when ME2 overlord came out years ago, or when knights of the nine came out for Oblivion...the list goes on; DLC or even expansions tied into the original game aren't unusual and normally don't get the same amount of skepticism.

Because those are the same style games as Mass Effect and have had a similar response to their endings? I COMPLETELY understand the reservations of the author. It has nothing to do with catering it's just common sense that some people will not be bothered to play extra content for a game that gives them a 'nothing mattered' ending. I am one of those people.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Would you read a newly added chapter in a previously read book that had a crappy ending? If I wasn't impressed with it the first time around, why should I bother paying to read some chapter slapped in the middle of it?

I wonder how many people bought The Wind Through The Keyhole? Just sayin'...

(I actually quite liked the end of Dark Tower, and have a - library, I should point out - copy of Wind waiting to read. I just don't want to, because there's no way it can have a decent impact on the story. It'll just be a book in which nothing important happens, and probably goes back to Wizard & Glass style prequel)

 

[Hat Man]

After ME3 I am never going to give Bioware any more of my money.

Starting with this.

 

[Tomeran]

Yet no one calls the same foul when Dawnguard came out, or when ME2 overlord came out years ago, or when knights of the nine came out for Oblivion...the list goes on; DLC or even expansions tied into the original game aren't unusual and normally don't get the same amount of skepticism.

But in all of those cases, the fiction in which the DLC was set was ongoing. They could very easily have taken place after the main storyline had been completed. Not so with Leviathan. Mass Effect 3 ended Mass Effect. How do you compellingly follow up on that?

As you said yourself earlier, there is no real right answer, its down to a matter of taste and personal preferance. I'll personally admit its a bit harder to get personally "invested" in dlc that is released following a finished storyline, but for me I am relying on the quality of the dlc storyline itself to keep me entertained and to give me value for the money. Blizzard has a pretty good record for this in my oppinion, in both DA2 and ME2 dlc, so I dont think I'll be dissapointed.
This is a "side adventure" where you get to discover more stuff about the reapers, and that is something kept fairly in the dark in ME3. Perhaps a bit too much. If one really must tie the dlc to the ending of the franchise somehow: Maybe the information revealed about the reapers somehow will affect which choice you'll take at the end, rather then just provide additional war assets? The more you know...

 

[SonicWaffle]

Have you never read a book twice?

There's a big difference, and I think it's a large part of why there's such an outcry over games with bad endings or disappointing games. Our medium of choices requires far more time and effort to enjoy than other popular forms of storytelling. If it takes you thirty hours to read a book, it's an incredibly long book but you've not been required to be actively invested that entire time. You're experiencing the story without participation.

In games, you have to earn your progress. If you're watching a movie and just want to know the ending, you can skip ahead, but with a video game that content is locked to you until you prove your skill or invest sufficient time and effort. Ergo, having invested so much more, we expect so much more in return. A movie with a bad ending - The Dark Knight Rises, for instance - will draw criticism but not the vitriolic hatred we saw aimed at ME3, because our total investment in Nolan's trilogy is around ten hours of passively sitting and watching events unfold before us. Our total investment with the Mass Effect universe can run to hundreds of hours, and we're not experiencing it passively either; every plot point or character progression has been worked for, earned. We've dictated the course of the story ourselves, and so to be handed a shitty ending is an invalidation of all our hard work.

I'm not saying that justifies the intense fan outcry, but it does make it far easier to understand, and it also renders comparison to other passively-experienced forms of storytelling meaningless.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Yet no one calls the same foul when Dawnguard came out, or when ME2 overlord came out years ago, or when knights of the nine came out for Oblivion...the list goes on; DLC or even expansions tied into the original game aren't unusual and normally don't get the same amount of skepticism.

But in all of those cases, the fiction in which the DLC was set was ongoing. They could very easily have taken place after the main storyline had been completed. Not so with Leviathan. Mass Effect 3 ended Mass Effect. How do you compellingly follow up on that?

Doesn't that depend on your ending? I went with synthesis (which AFAIK is technically the "good" ending, as you can only get it if you've been enough of a Paragon and it essentially boils down to "everyone gets to live together in harmony"), and I can see that being an interesting setting for future games.

I think the Catalyst is being hilariously optimistic in assuming that, say, Batarian slave traders or Vorcha mercenaries are going to settle down and buy a farm just because everyone is now technically part synthetic. War? War never changes, even if the biological makeup of the combatants does. It would be fun to see how a hybrid character played, what new tech powers were gained from the melding. Playing through a storyline about a galaxy struggling to come to terms with a massive, unprecedented change that certainly not all of them (remember the anti-biotic, "pure human" terrorists from the earlier games? How do you think they feel about suddenly becoming part machine against their will?) wanted or approve of.

Of course, if BW don't want to play that angle, they can always cheap out by following the example of the Star Wars EU, and bringing in totally new aliens from outside the known galaxy who just want to fuck shit up.

 

[TheCaptain]

I'm more than ready to give it a try. I've said it time and again that whoever actually wrote that Mass Effect 3 ending just shouldn't consider himself a writer by trade, but then there was the rest of the game and the series overall, and I'm not gonna let a bout of bad writing ruin the whole 120 hours per playthrough for me.

That said, it'd be interesting to see how and if this ties into the ending - if Shepard already gets deeper insight into the Reapers' origins, will that change the dialogue with Skynet in the end of the game?

Also, I'm curious if this and future DLC will have an actual impact on the ending. It seems kinda silly that at 100 % Galactic Readiness "allied forces a holding steady and winning in key locations" you enter the final battle with around 4k surplus Effective Military Strength points, that number growing with every DLC they release. I'd love to be able to actually DO something with these points. They could do that, and since it'd be "on their own terms" they'd even come out with there precious "artistic integrity" intact.

As for the Rogue Reaper theory:

Spoiler

As far as I recall, this was only deduced from the connection to the Leviathan of Dis, which we learned in ME3 was an inactive Reaper. Could be that the title has a double meaning and refers not only to the Leviathan of Dis, but also the Reaper-killing creature that for lack of a proper title shall henceforth be known as The Bigger Fish.

 

[Legion]

It sounds pretty cool, but is it actually interesting enough to bother with? We all know how the Mass Effect story ends, after all, so no matter what you do or what happens in Leviathan, the outcome will be the same.

You could say the same for any (side) mission in the game. I fail to see how that's a point against this DLC.

Knowing how something ends doesn't need to detract from its entertainment value. Have you never read a book twice?

The difference is that Mass Effect is a game that has always claimed to have the player shape the story and make decisions that affect what happens. Unless this DLC actually does that, then it's not adding anything significant to the plot. It won't matter what happens, as everything still happens as it did before.

The argument only holds because Bioware were stupid enough to constantly claim how much the players choices affect the story. If they'd just kept their mouths shut rather than trying to hype the game with all of their inaccurate claims about how much our decisions matter, then it'd be the same as the book argument.

That said, some people may just be willing to enjoy it for what it has, and not be bothered that it doesn't have any impact on the main story, if that's the case, then nobody can criticise them for it, they just may enjoy the series for different reasons.

 

[chiefohara]

Im buying it, The EC was enough for me to forgive the ending and enjoy the game again.

Prior to EC though, i probably wouldn't have.

 

[Goofguy]

Would you read a newly added chapter in a previously read book that had a crappy ending? If I wasn't impressed with it the first time around, why should I bother paying to read some chapter slapped in the middle of it?

I wonder how many people bought The Wind Through The Keyhole? Just sayin'...

(I actually quite liked the end of Dark Tower, and have a - library, I should point out - copy of Wind waiting to read. I just don't want to, because there's no way it can have a decent impact on the story. It'll just be a book in which nothing important happens, and probably goes back to Wizard & Glass style prequel)

Still a difference between the Dark Tower series and my previous statement. It's a whole book that was added to a series with a fantastic ending. However, I still have yet to read it... I should definitely buy it, thanks for reminding me.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Would you read a newly added chapter in a previously read book that had a crappy ending? If I wasn't impressed with it the first time around, why should I bother paying to read some chapter slapped in the middle of it?

I wonder how many people bought The Wind Through The Keyhole? Just sayin'...

(I actually quite liked the end of Dark Tower, and have a - library, I should point out - copy of Wind waiting to read. I just don't want to, because there's no way it can have a decent impact on the story. It'll just be a book in which nothing important happens, and probably goes back to Wizard & Glass style prequel)

Still a difference between the Dark Tower series and my previous statement. It's a whole book that was added to a series with a fantastic ending. However, I still have yet to read it... I should definitely buy it, thanks for reminding me.

I mentioned before that I quite liked the Dark Tower's ending, but (aside from yourself) everyone else I've discussed it with hates it. I've heard it called a cop-out, lazy writing, an insult to the readers etc etc. So I can't really see how the examples are that different - if we take the Dark Tower as one long story, isn't Wind just another chapter? Being a midquel, it isn't going to add anything to the overall story or change the ending in any way, much like this Leviathan DLC.

I find the very idea of a midquel very confusing - it's like the writer or developer saying "Here, buy this, it's a story so totally unimportant that after it happens no character ever, ever mentions it again throughout the rest of the series. It will add nothing to the plot, fix nothing you dislike about the end of the series, but give me your money anyway"