BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Scorpid]

Anyone who believes that the Extended Cut DLC wasn't already planned from the very beginning (BEFORE the movement began to get the ending changed) is quite simply in denial. You, Take Back ME3ers, do you think you've changed anything? This was their plan from the beginning: release the game with an abstract ending that doesn't seem to fit, ride on the free publicity that such a controversial ending would naturally have, and then offer to expand on it with additional DLC at a later date. Even the game tells you that there would be further DLC to come. All you've really done is play directly into their hands and give them tons of free press which they are now using to get millions of extra copies sold, as players will naturally be curious and want to see what all the fuss is about. Congrats, you've boosted their sales and you're now getting free DLC that they already planned to give you as an apology. Now, have you learned your lesson yet, or will we have to keep explaining this to your fanbase over and over for the next several months?

You know what's killing me is that BioWare keeps saying "We're listening." in one breath and in the other "We completely disagree and stand by our product." over and over again. The subtext seems to me from those two statements they reuse is "We're listening to your complaining and are releasing extended cut so you might be quiet about this, even though we think our customers are wrong.". Which is simply insulting. I really don't understand why Bioware thinks to compromise their integrity is to give the fans what they want. Well if they keep that up they won't have as many fans to compromise their integrity over after this madness.

This whole discussion has been going on since the games release. This is no longer about the series and creators integrity but maintaining the brand image of Bioware which by anyones measure is suffering immensely from this whole debacle.

ALSO I wish you people would stop calling each other whiners and such, it's childish way of arguing any topic and only hurts your position in my opinion. For people just wanting it to end it inflames emotions and for people that defend bioware it only causes people that disagree with you to shut out the rest of things you say when you insult them in such a way, even IF you have a actual point.

It's got squat to do with integrity.

I can hear and understand what you're saying, and still disagree with it. That's how Bioware is approaching this. They figure you're going to buy their next game anyways, so why bother concerning themselves over it?

And you growl and twitch in anger now, but when the words "Mass Effect 4" first appear on your computer screens and televisions, your anger will be swiftly replaced with curiousity and you'll become docile and eager to whip out your wallet again. Maybe it's not true for you specifically, dear poster, but this is what Bioware is counting on. Bet on it.

HA that's some bold claims. Perhaps you believe the Ford Pinto was released to get them some of that sweet press attention from their cars having a nasty habit of exploding on impact. I also do not "twitch and growl". I'm not sure what image you have of someone that doesn't like the ending of ME3 but it seems sort of unrealistic.

I absolutely see no good that has come from this for Bioware. They were already top dog in the RPG market when ME3 was released so setting up some sure to fail ending would seem absurd. I don't think we'll see a ME4, not because of the ending controversy but just because they've said that this will be the last game in the ME3 universe in the foreseeable future.

But I suppose your real point was that when Bioware released another RPG I'll still pay for it. I probably will I really liked DA2 and DA3 will be something to look forward to and seems to be their next project. I never claimed that this was some critical life or death issue for Bioware but what i was trying to say was that it's hurting their brand image over something that shouldn't of been a issue. There is a growing number of people dissatisfied with the Bioware brand after DA2 and ME3 and it's easy to see many of them not rushing out to buy the next Bioware entry in the first few days which is when games make their money from the base game before copies can get traded in. Lower then expected pre-orders for their next game will be the first sign of this. Or they might not even buy the game at all because they might want to buy ohhh saaay, **!WASTELAND 2!** which only has 3 days left to donate now at the one time low price of $15! Holy cow that's cheap =o

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Yes, their was flaming and complaining. But full refunds given for opened and played games? Outcry for over a month over the audacity to actually change the ending? This is out of hand.

You do have a point here. Compared to other outcries, Mass Effect 3 is a bit of an oddity in that regard, but Mass Effect was especially built up over 5 years. Whether or not that justifies the outcry depends on your stance I guess.

I guess I should clarify MY stance on things and what I am arguing.
I'm upset about the ending, I was skeptical about the whole "your choices have meaning" selling point (and I do consider it a selling point cause it's what Bioware made a huge deal of) but Mass Effect 2 made me think they might pull it off. But I am not demanding a refund. I agree that such a demand is going too far.
If I could specify my demands to Bioware, it would be: "Please perform drastic changes to your writing staff (ie. fire Hepler) and move on." I don't know if I agree with changing the ending, but I sure as hell understand it.

It's not simple complaints though. It's bashing, flaming, and completely putting down the studio that made these people spend $180 max to begin with. They gave the players joy beyond belief and because the fans didn't get the exact ending they wanted, they've brutalized the game- made it seem as if it's a 1/5 title. In reality, these people have forgotten what a bad game is. They're forgotten the very history of games in general and how a trilogy where your actions are carried over from game-to-game is such a huge milestone.

As for story, there are tons of games that exist for the sake of story and only story. Alan Wake did nothing BUT advertise story. Warren Spector does nothing but talk about creating a story within his games.

What we forget is, most of these games are great and it's the experience that makes it all worth it despite the fact most of these games have horrendous stories and/or endings.

Again, look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The endings were terrible. Hell, the story even got incredibly off-track. I see no amazon or publisher refunds for open games.Gears of War 3 was a trilogy that started with a seemingly interesting story to tell, and we got nothing throughout all three games. Then there was God of War 3, a trilogy advertising a Greek tragedy for a narrative, and it ended up retconning itself in the final moments.

This is where things get complicated. You are right in that Mass Effect series is important case in gaming, but it?s that very reason that people are reacting this way. It?s the five years thing again, it all sort of depends how much Mass Effect meant to you and thus whether or not the 1% of shit removes the 99% of good.

I think the issue of videogames having bad endings may be a core issue as well. Mass Effect 3 may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. The other games weren't built up over 5 years after all (actually Alan Wake may have now that you mention it).

Story is only one aspect of the game and complaining that "OH MAN! THAT STORY WAS SO GREAT UNTIL THE ENDING THAT CAME THREE GAMES LATER! WORST STUDIO EVER! TAKE DOWN THE HIGH-SCORE REVIEWS!!!" is just nothing more than forgetting the better pieces of the game. Furthermore, bitching about it and making such a fuss is just bullying the developers. It's immature and is just the equivalent of throwing a tantrum. If you want BioWare to succeed, stop getting so angry because you're on the internet and can act in such a way. Be formal, punctual and overall, just nice and aware. It'll help BioWare in the future.

Yes, I can agree on politeness. It just seems that most people are generalizing people who hated the ending as the very same who are sending death threats to Bioware. They aren't of course. People are cutting a line down the middle and saying ?This you. This is us.?

 

[satsugaikaze]

Yes, I can agree on politeness. It just seems that most people are generalizing people who hated the ending as the very same who are sending death threats to Bioware. They aren't of course. People are cutting a line down the middle and saying ?This you. This is us.?

On that note, has anyone realised how... hostile the entire movement has presented itself? Language like "Retake" Mass Effect and people spouting "hold the line" the entire time really doesn't garner an image of co-operation and a willingness to help.

I know both are gentle jabs at quoting the games and a lot of people are simply going about this business in a proper and decent manner, but the whole thing has come off as an "us versus them, and they are the baddies" sort of mentality. And that does go against the idea that they're touting, that the players are just as much the 'authors' of the game as the developers are - but instead there's this great divide where people feel "betrayed" and are never going to buy another Bioware game ever again or something.

I just think it was a poor choice of language, and it doesn't help that there is a more vocal portion of the movement that are tainting its image by following up their opinions with obnoxious posts and expletives.

 

[Kingjackl]

It's amazing how so many people are assuming the endings were done badly deliberately as part of an evil conspiracy on the part of EA and Bioware to charge for game-fixing DLC and milk money from all the poor, dejected fanboys. That line of thought kind of falls apart when you consider that:

A) Of the DLC they've released so far, we've had a $10 bonus mission and squadmate pack that's free with the Collector's Edition, a free multiplayer pack offering some amazing new content, and a proposed Extended Cut of the endings that's also free. Guys, if they were really trying to milk us, they'd have done it by now.

B) If you look at Bioware's respnses to fan complaints, it's generally been along the lines of "Sorry you didn't like the ending, we can't completely change it because that would require time and money and we have other projects to work on. If it makes you feel better, we'll pay attention to the fan criticisms and try and make something that works well for both us." Bioware don't hate their fans and it looks like they've been trying as hard as possible to meet them halfway on this issue, which is frankly more than any of the complainers deserve.

The false advertising claim is all about the promise that "the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome". I think they delivered on that pretty well, just not in the way people were hoping. While it's true that all of the decisions you make across the trilogy ultimately come down to a single number rating that just creates minor variations on the three big decisions at the end, I can't conceivably think of way they could have done it differently. People need to realise that there's more to this game than just the last 10 minutes even if that's all people ever want to fucking talk about now.

 

[drh1975]

Could we find something else to talk about?
And where was all of this fanboy rage when EA decided to release some half-assed motion comic instead of the first Mass Effect on the PS3? Nobody complained about that, but they won't shut the hell up about the ending of ME3.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

On that note, has anyone realised how... hostile the entire movement has presented itself? Language like "Retake" Mass Effect and people spouting "hold the line" the entire time really doesn't garner an image of co-operation and a willingness to help.

Well in case you don't know. The whole "Retake" thing was spawned from Bioware's own slogan for ME3 "Retake Earth." It was meant to be ironic, but came off as hostile. The hold-the-line thing is the motto of the Salarian commandos, so it's intended to be just referential.

Poor choice? Probably. But I doubt it was intended to be hostile by everybody.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

Is it just me, or does this thread contain more "ugh ME, stop whining" whining than relevant discussion regarding the BBB observation.

People complaining, thus bumping the thread, causing more people to complain about it being bumped ... it's vicious cycle


As for the subject matter at hand, personally I'm long since over my ME3 disappointment. Yeah, it sucks... but it's hardly the first bad game I've played. I would however, like to see the Casey Hudson taken to task over his blatant lies. If a company wants to pump their game up by saying "it's awesome" ... that's fine, "awesome" is a purely subjective measure and ymmv. However, giving a concrete number for the possible endings (16, was it) and saying X will affect Y eliminated any ymmv interpretation. Either the game meets the metrics it set for itself or it doesn't, and if not, legal actions will follow.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Still annoyed about Bioware saying it won't be a three choice ending, and then it being a three choice ending. The way the company has presented itself and DA2 meant I was going to wait and see before buying it, but that quote actually convinced me to pre-order. I wouldn't have spent 60$ on the thing otherwise, the controversy over the ending would've had me waiting until' the price dropped.

So, I'm just not going to buy Bioware games until' they've been out for a while, that way I'll have more sources at my disposal to figure out if it's worth a purchase. Which given the way they've been acting and doing things, might well mean i just won't buy their games anymore.

Still think they should face some sort of financial repercussions for outright lying about the ending though. Shit like that shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[mirasiel]

because the fans didn't get the exact ending they wanted

I think you meant to say 'beacuse the fans didnt get the endings that Bioware promised and misled the fans into thinking they would get' .

The endings are exactly what devs from Bioware have been *quoted* as saying would NOT happen, some of which I think are quotes from after the game went gold.

The fact the endings also don't gel at all with the established lore (relays exploding = dead star system, whoops just killed more people than the reapers), make no sense based on the information given to the players (how does Joker make it from earth to the sol relay out by pluto?) and are just plain poor writing....all kind of explains why fans are rightfully pissed off.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

It's pretty cool how corporations have convinced everyone that asking for what you want to spend your money on as a customer is 'whining' or something derogatory.

I mean it's really convenient for them to be able to just do whatever they want, and if people don't like it they get told they are being stupid for having an opinion or criticising anything.

I feel like there is a war against critical thinking and critical thinking is losing...

Also, I have to give props to IGN and the other game news/media outlets for spinning this whole thing so that anyone who criticises BioWare's work is attacking the artistic integrity of the medium as we know it.

They are really earning those EA dollars! Also I wonder which IGN contributor will have a role in their next game? Must be so great having people in your pocket

Except you are equating criticism with attempting suing for false advertising and customers saying that they are entitled to better and that EA MUST PROVIDE IT.

The game said you take choices that pick an ending. Sure its shit but it still happens. It isnt false advertising. And you know what its GOOD that we critisize. No ones saying its wrong to critisize and thats a total strawman, so much for critical thinking that straw doesnt boast many neurones does it?. If i buy the last book in the trilogy of my favourite books, (this happened with the eregon series) and its complete shit i can do the following things.

1. Give it a fair and bad review because it wasnt good online, discourage friends from reading it.
2. Not buy from that author again.

I cant return it. I cant demand a different ending. I cant MAKE the author make a story that I want. You cant. You just cant. You purchased a product, agreed with the buyer that youd get it based on: Previous work that only tangentally told us about the quality of this work and a promise in a teaser that was technically correct. I didnt pre order. I waited. I saw that its apparently crap. And i havnt bought it because im voting with my wallet and not by complaining (because companies totally take you super cerial if you buy their stuff and THEN say they need to change while continuing to buy their stuff).

I imagine you bought it. Whos feeding the companies now?

 

[Murmillos]

They gave the players joy beyond belief and because the fans didn't get the exact ending they wanted, they've brutalized the game- made it seem as if it's a 1/5 title.

Its not about an ending we "didn't want"... well ok, you are right, but only in the context the the current ending of ME3 breaks every lore point, and story telling element the previous 90-120 hours BioWare weaved so damn good previously (I admit, not every part was great, but was damn good over all -- all in all). The ending is a 180° change to the story and we are expected to swallow it and be happy "that we got even that much."

Most people were full aware that Shepard was going to die, or make it out but at a major cost of nearly everybody who had been at his side the entire time. Only a very-very-very few wanted rainbows and kittens for the ending of ME3; but even they knew at heart - that wasn't really going to happen.
There isn't a person in here in this thread who wouldn't have rammed Harbinger with Normandy with everybody on board if it meant that it would disrupt and stop the Reapers dead cold.

Hell, the game should have ended on a cliff hanger at the moment of entering the SoL system with us getting a real ending a few months later; instead of this half baked cop-out, "it may or may not be a 'dream'.. but we don't want to ruin the 'surprise' later." Which even this so far as been water down now to just "its extra movies to help give 'closure'".

But as it stands, it doesn't matter how much of a Jerk or Good Guy I was for ME1, ME2 and ME3, because the ending completely marginalizes every single in game choices I made since standing on the bridge of Normandy going to Eden Prime before I even knew what the Geth were. The game says, your choices don't fucking matter, only choosing one of these 3 magical pills that create special space magic matter.

Thats why we hate the ending of ME3, it has broken every promise made since ME1.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Mark my words, people. The fallout of this scandal will continue to linger until Bioware unfuck themselves and fix the ending.

And to those that still flame us for wanting a fix to this - we're not entitled. Bioware promised, they didn't deliver. We are well within our rights to ***** when we were literally scammed.

Now, the BBB actually answering to the complaint? I honestly didn't expect this. It may not actually mean much in court, but it sure as fuck is cause for cheer when our point is being recognized here.

 

[godofallu]

To be fair when a company lies in their advertising they usually:

A- Get forced to change the ad.
B- Suffer a fine or are forced to allow returns.

I don't think they have ever been forced to change their product in order to fit their advertising.

 

[Zayle79]

My question is this. With this being done, will we do this to every other game/publisher that promises the world but doesn't deliver, or is this going to be a one time thing specifically aimed against this one game/company? I mean, claims like this have been going on since the late 80's. If this can be applied to every company does this mean we can decry Lionhead to the BBB?

I'm thinking the difference is the context the information is presented in. Molyneux getting overexcited and making ridiculous promises in interviews is one thing, but Lionhead doesn't actually advertise that stuff, aside from the interviews. Yeah, BW lied about ME3 in interviews, but they can't really be held accountable for what devs say while the game is still in development; BBB is taking issue with the actual advertisement, like the official website.

Edit: And this still doesn't mean they have to change the ending. Hopefully they'll have to choke on their lies and pay a fine of some sort, but nobody can force them to change an already-released product.

 

[Norris IV]

Time to throw my two cents in, The biggest reasons for the ME3 ending to suck for me are 1: There is no point to your actions, regardless of what you do during the 3 games, you will always land on earth, always run to the beam, always end up on the citidal, always 'win' 2: You don't actually 'win' the war because no matter which option you choose, the relays become inaccessible and the reset button has been hit, what the reapers were aiming to do anyway. And finally we come onto point 3: The ending is artistic, to a series of games which are considered heavily story based, resulting in a horrible shift of tone in the game.

P.S: Captchas telling me to change myself, my clothes don't smell that ba.... oh god this shirt needs washing...

 

[Norris IV]

Could we find something else to talk about?
And where was all of this fanboy rage when EA decided to release some half-assed motion comic instead of the first Mass Effect on the PS3? Nobody complained about that, but they won't shut the hell up about the ending of ME3.

That was because the first mass effect was also developed by MS game studios, Now EA are powerful but I doubt they'd be able to get MS to release one of there games on a rival console

 

[z121231211]

If this works, I also want to sue the makers of Dead Island for saying it was local co-op when it isn't. Dicks. Wouldn't have brought that otherwise.

That's actually pretty definitive. While saying your choices matter and then having 1 choice at the end be the only one that determines your ending is one thing, saying a game has local co-op when it clearly doesn't is about as blatant as you can get.