BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Something Amyss]

They are different, though. Your choices along the way affect what ending you get. If you don't have enough GR, you don't get Synthesis, and the cutscenes are slightly different for the other two. Plus, if you get enough, then the destroy option gets the extra scene.

You might not like it, but it's still there. And it will most certainly hold up in court.

"slightly different" doesn't meet the claims, however.

Red, blue and green are very different colours, you know. I'm not saying that they are completely different, but lawyers definitely can. This litigation is a waste of everyone's time.

Not to mention, the specific claims of not getting an A B or C ending.

Which is why there are seven endings [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA&feature=related]. Seventh is the one with the bonus scene.

You are trying to dice very fine. Arguing that lawyers can get away with it's kind of pointless, since consumers have won on grounds like this before. It also doesn't hurt that, while not a state organisation with legal repercussions, the BBB does agree.

Most game lies don't come down to something that specific, including your example of Peter Molyneux.

Well this time, the lies were really really specific, which is the reason people are pissed off.

Exactly the point.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

This thread provides all kinds of insights on the Escapist frequenters. We're actually having a conversation about whether BioWare deserve a negative outcome for lying. Finally, dishonesty is on its way out as a negative trait.

(image)

That was truly illuminating.

That's exactly how I feel about it. It's frustrating that so many gamers feel the need to purge their own ranks of malcontents. Worse, most of the attacks don't deal with the content of the complaints but the fact that they are being voiced at all.

 

[Mournblade94]

This thread provides all kinds of insights on the Escapist frequenters. We're actually having a conversation about whether BioWare deserve a negative outcome for lying. Finally, dishonesty is on its way out as a negative trait.

(image)

That was truly illuminating.

This. THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

Objectively. The 'complaining about the complainers'-complainers are grasping at straws, and the retake movement (which definetly should've named itself differently) is right.

Why is there ANY discussion over this when objectively:
-Bioware promised us that this exact thing would not happen, multiple times.
-Bioware has up untill now (although I personally think 2&3 were sloppily written overal) held up it's standard of writing, untill the very last most important part of the game.

Expecting a company to do what it promises, and we know it CAN do, and is expected to do? Pffffft, so unreasonable.

Now it's my turn to say it: YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.

(See, it sounds obnoxious when you say that about every opinion contrary to your own, doesn't it?)

No, really, you don't. Most people don't even care whether or not you're right any more, they're just tired of hearing about it. Folks have been complaining about this non-stop since the game released. Thread after thread saying pretty much the exact same thing, argument upon argument in which critics would say "you're wrong" and the complainers would say "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT" and the cycle repeats itself. Over and over. No one stops to consider that perhaps the ending of the game legitimately does suck (unless by some miraculous coincidence the Indoctrination Theory winds up being true). Nor does anyone stop to think that perhaps not everyone cares, as Mass Effect 3 is not the only game on the market and the last ten minutes of the game does not merit over a month's worth of heavily slanted media coverage.

Has anyone thought about the fact that we've expended millions of hours and witnessed the anger of untold hundreds of thousands of people purely over the last ten minutes of a video game? And you don't understand why people might be a tad bit exhausted of this? Ever since the game's release it's been topic after topic, thread after thread of this same thing for over a month now. It's exhausting, especially since every single thread has said the exact same thing and reiterated the same arguments.

Fine, it's a bad ending. Fine, you probably deserved a better one. But you're not getting it because Bioware has already said they won't change it. Can this discussion be OVER ALREADY? You're going to have to live with it, and it's clear that no amount of further bitching will change their minds....and why would it? They already got your money, and most of you have already missed your opportunity to return the game by now.

Quit the hyperbole.

The reason you see thread after thread about this HERE is because you are reading a thread about it.

I think about the mass effect ending fail when I am in this thread. Not 24 hours a day. I do not assume that an internet poster posting an opinion ONLY thinks of that topic.

A good rule of thumb to follow: If you are sick of something do not open threads about the topic that you are tired of hearing about. Simple.

 

[bfgmetalhead]

Im so sick of people complaing about ME3 Im going to start the "shut up about ME3 movemnt"

WHO'S WITH ME?!

nope.avi

this has to happen. It is a new high in consumer reactions, yes it is a tad over-the-top in some places, however this will teach companies to treat their advertisements with more care in the future. The end of this whole thing is coming, but the example remains.

P.s I support the retake movement and do wish for a diffrent ending, Just so ya know

 

[Adultism]

This whole mass effect debacle deserves a HUGE facepalm. I mean JEEZ we have been dealing with this since the game came out, and it doesn't seem like it will come to a standstill any time soon.

 

[Murmillos]

Now in regard to EA forcing a rushed game and the DEVELOPERS being unhappy with the ending. Thats a different matter. If the creators of a piece of work dont like it and want to change it thats absolutely fine.

BioWare may not be in a situation where they can openly blame EA for the ending. I've seen some developers blame one time partnerships with publishers for game issues X Y and Z, and the publisher respond likewise. BioWare, even if the developers, writers and art team are all modified over the ending, their marching orders are shut up or walk out. If not enough people at BioWare are willing to stick together (or they still have DLC obligations to fulfill before they get any post game launch bonus, all they can do is let EA PR talk for them.

The line is drawn when fans begin "demanding" changes or acting as if they own the intellectual property.

I think we all understand, that regardless of the situation, product or cost of item, there are people who will "demand" a fix. Somehow the few who do "demand" are all of a sudden the mast majority of the 'disappointed in the ending' group.

And just what is the difference between somebody "demanding" a change, and saying "not changing the ending may jeopardize the amount of money I will pay for your next game"? Probably you can't explain, because its just easier to use derogatory terms such as "entitled whiners" and "demand" instead of "disappointed gamers" "strongly wanting a change".

If i made a series of paintings and everyone hated the last one BUT i liked it id keep it the way it was and no amount of "retaking" would be able to, or should be able to force me to do otherwise.

Lets just continue this silly hypothetical situation of yours:
Lets say you did a series of paints with a very specific "design", all pictures put together would be part of one larger whole and somebody paid you in advance for those paintings to be completed. As you continued painting for said client, you explicitly make promises to very specific features/styles/colors of said paintings that the client would get to enjoy, even while said paintings were finally being shipped to said client. Finally when he opens up those paintings, one by one, all of them are as promised, except for one - the last one. All of the other paintings fit together and look great together except for this one panting that is the center piece. The client comes back and goes; "I don't understand why you did the last painting like this .. it wasn't what you promised me and I would like that you change it. I suggest that you do change it if you want us to continued business."

You think about it.. on one hand, you did promise him that last painting was going to be the paintings that made the whole picture "complete". But on the other hand, your last minute artist integrity is at stake. You know other people will still buy your work, but will they buy your work in lower volume, or wait until its at a lower price? How much of your name are you willing to gamble that it gets mangled over a continued implied promise vrs your own skill with the brush.

This isn't some random indie developers one off game with no implied promise with a "bad" ending. This is a developer who went out of their way to make it very clearly stated and understood from since the launch of ME1, that "Player Agency", the players own choices and actions would matter and make a very impact full change at the end.

Those who have legitimate issues with the ending have every right to complain, to let bioware know they created a substandard experience but i dont feel they have any right to "retake" something that was never theirs.

I think the "retake" message was more like a movie "retake", not in re-take and do it our way, but "come on BioWare, you know this isn't right and we think you know what we wanted; go back and do a "retake".

Your right, the property of Mass Effect isn't ours, but you know what is ours, the experience. We would really really like for, perhaps even want, even to the threat of future business, that BioWare should redo their efforts so we may have a chance to "retake" the ending; to something that is more palatable, that continues the theme and logic the previous 100 hours taught us to learn.

It doesn't have to be an ending that we necessarily like, but it should be an ending that we can understand. Most mature gamers can respectfully disliked an ending, and at least understood the meaning and why the that ending was the ending. But ME3 doesn't give us that respect to allow us to respect it back.
That lack of respect is the reason that this force over the dislike of the ending continues on strongly for as long as it has.

If bioware feel their work needs changing and want to change it thne they should be able to. I would support such an action fully. I mean i thought the ending of eregon was the biggest tonne of shit ive ever read. Other fans agree. You think a retake eregon movement would be reasonable?

Any ending can garner a "retake" group (and most do in some form or fashion). Most last a week or two, but then fizzle down as most people don't partake because there was no promise or personal involvement to said medium. Mass Effect is very different because it was my choice if my Shepard liked Garret and Wrex and Tali, or not to like any of them. And may other players feel this way. Since our interaction was to matter, then why take that away at the very last minute to impose a new unclear message at the very end.

 

[Darkmantle]

Gentlemen, check out this lovely ad that EA/Bioware put out...

oh god.

oh... GOD!

EA MARKETING YOU VILE BASTARDS!!!!

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

"demand" are all of a sudden the mast majority of the 'disappointed in the ending' group.

And just what is the difference between somebody "demanding" a change, and saying "not changing the ending may jeopardize the amount of money I will pay for your next game"? Probably you can't explain, because its just easier to use derogatory terms such as "entitled whiners" and "demand" instead of "disappointed gamers" "strongly wanting a change".

No where did I equate these people to the majority. I said simply this "Those that complain and want change are fine. Those that demand change and act like they own it are entitled". I didnt comment on what % of people each group was. Thus your point is pretty much invalid since you based it on... guessing? I dunno. It made me look bad. The ones ASKING for a change are the latter you described, the ones DEMANDING a change

Lets just continue this silly hypothetical situation of yours:
Lets say you did a series of paints with a very specific "design", all pictures put together would be part of one larger whole and somebody paid you in advance for those paintings to be completed. As you continued painting for said client, you explicitly make promises to very specific features/styles/colors of said paintings that the client would get to enjoy, even while said paintings were finally being shipped to said client. Finally when he opens up those paintings, one by one, all of them are as promised, except for one - the last one. All of the other paintings fit together and look great together except for this one panting that is the center piece. The client comes back and goes; "I don't understand why you did the last painting like this .. it wasn't what you promised me and I would like that you change it. I suggest that you do change it if you want us to continued business."

You think about it.. on one hand, you did promise him that last painting was going to be the paintings that made the whole picture "complete". But on the other hand, your last minute artist integrity is at stake. You know other people will still buy your work, but will they buy your work in lower volume, or wait until its at a lower price? How much of your name are you willing to gamble that it gets mangled over a continued implied promise vrs your own skill with the brush.

I feel that example doesnt hold because it was simply one ASPECT of the painting in my example that didnt stick with the quality of the previous ones, not the entire thing. The whole game of ME3 was good, only the last bit was bad. The painting itself isnt flawed all the way. Id say the dude you are describing is one the not-entitled people complaining about the mass effect ending. It isnt so much a demand as a reasoned response.

Bioware did fuck up. They deserve people to offer this ultimatum of better or bust. The idea that we deserve better and they need to fix right now just for us is silly. It was also somewhat the buyers fault for buying a painting he had never seen before. Seriously. Wait until you see it first. Its not smart business or consumerism to buy something you know very little about and then complain about the quality.

I think the "retake" message was more like a movie "retake", not in re-take and do it our way, but "come on BioWare, you know this isn't right and we think you know what we wanted; go back and do a "retake".

Your right, the property of Mass Effect isn't ours, but you know what is ours, the experience. We would really really like for, perhaps even want, even to the threat of future business, that BioWare should redo their efforts so we may have a chance to "retake" the ending; to something that is more palatable, that continues the theme and logic the previous 100 hours taught us to learn.

It doesn't have to be an ending that we necessarily like, but it should be an ending that we can understand. Most mature gamers can respectfully disliked an ending, and at least understood the meaning and why the that ending was the ending. But ME3 doesn't give us that respect to allow us to respect it back.
That lack of respect is the reason that this force over the dislike of the ending continues on strongly for as long as it has.

I never thought to read it like that. I see your point there. I always saw it as "retake" as in make ours and to be honest i still kind of read it that way, however i see what youre saying at it makes sense. Fair enough.

Any ending can garner a "retake" group (and most do in some form or fashion). Most last a week or two, but then fizzle down as most people don't partake because there was no promise or personal involvement to said medium. Mass Effect is very different because it was my choice if my Shepard liked Garret and Wrex and Tali, or not to like any of them. And may other players feel this way. Since our interaction was to matter, then why take that away at the very last minute to impose a new unclear message at the very end.

The breaking of promises i can understand but having an ending that is simply rubbish, even with player choice, is a common thing in every medium games or otherwise and it doesnt invalidate the good core gameplay or the fun had throughout the entire ride of the series. Its just the odd idea that mass effect 3 is a total riot until the end that saddens me. Reading retake like you do now rather than like i did a retake group makes more sense. This has changed how i see it.

 

[Mournblade94]

Quit the hyperbole.

The reason you see thread after thread about this HERE is because you are reading a thread about it.

I think about the mass effect ending fail when I am in this thread. Not 24 hours a day. I do not assume that an internet poster posting an opinion ONLY thinks of that topic.

A good rule of thumb to follow: If you are sick of something do not open threads about the topic that you are tired of hearing about. Simple.

Now it's your turn to quit it. Quit making absurd assumptions, that is.

I didn't say "24 hours a day", and I agree that the best option is to try to avoid them. However that proves rather difficult when many of the trending news stories are about ....you guessed it, ME3! Looking at the Escapist alone, there's five threads on ME3 on the first two pages of the News Room board....no other game has that much recent coverage. And that doesn't even include the threads for Yahtzee ranting about ME3 (and yes I meant plural, because several people started their own threads just to rant about this) , the threads for MovieBob doing it, the threads for Critical Mass doing it, the threads for Jim Sterling doing it....you beginning to see my point?

I see the point. Exactly. It is just a simple one to ignore. Start a topic that interests you, and if others are interested tehy will participate. If it is still interesting people, there will be participation. I got rid of cable TV because I got sick of reality shows. I didn't demand others stop watching them (though for the intellectual integrity of the united states it would be a good idea). Now I do not see reality shows so they no longer bother me.

It's sort of like how people got sick of hearing about how amazing Skyrim is. You can't really blame them for it when it is, in fact, taking up a significant portion of what's being reported, far more than any other news story or game title.

It cannot be said enough how awesome skyrim was. If that is what fans want talked about, it is talked about. What is the problem?

And really, the fact that you felt it necessary to jump right to the "if you're sick of it then don't read it lol" defense is sort of proof-positive that it's the ME3ers who aren't getting it any more. (inb4 "but I'm not an ME3er, I've never even played the game!" or a similar such defense)

I get it. It is just not a concern of mine whether or not people are sick of it or not. Just as you mistakenly think I am whining.

And so, to recap my prior statements (before you decided that you had to respond with the "then don't read it" defense): We know. The game's ending sucked. But Bioware isn't changing it. So tough it out. ME3 is hardly the first game to provide a "fuck you" ending and it won't be the last, so if you want sympathy I'm going to have to ask you to get a ticket and stand in line with all the other fanbases who have watched their franchise take a turn for the worst. Or, if you just want to whine out loud and don't want people to complain about your whining, then whine to your pillow as it is incapable of forming and expressing an opinion.

To recap:
Just as you do not care that I am upset with the ending, I do not care that you are sick of the news stories about ME3. Every news story about the ME3 ending is more pressure for Bioware to see there are people taht may not buy their games in the future. I think that is the point being missed by most people. The demand is Bioware make a change or people LOSE FAITH in bioware and do not buy their games in the future. it is a CUSTOMER demand, not a fan demand. Its like not supporting a band after they make a bad album.

So once again. Don't read the thread. However the news helps put the the pressure on Bioware. That is what I care about.

I get it very well. I just choose to participate in the movement putting pressure on bioware (and I did not even sign the petition).

 

[TheSchaef]

A local car dealer ran some ads a few years ago referring to their dealership as a "used car factory", and to drive home the metaphor, the dealer ad had one of them cheesy green-screen effects (you know the kind I mean), where he throws a lever and a metal mold comes down and stamps out Toyota Camry, 8,999, Ford Explorer, 12,699, whatever.

Shortly thereafter, they were sued and had to take down the ads. Apparently people considered it false advertising to refer to a "used car factory" if you did not have an actual factory that literally produced used cars. Apparently some people couldn't distinguish the reality.

That's what this whole ME3 lawsuit business feels like to me. Bioware are trying to tell a particular story, and the control one has over the events of the story is and always has been limited to the content produced by the company consistent with the decision tree they presented you to begin with. The parameters and limits of the story and the decisions have always been exactly what Bioware allowed you to experience, neither more nor less.

 

[JarinArenos]

A local car dealer ran some ads a few years ago referring to their dealership as a "used car factory", and to drive home the metaphor, the dealer ad had one of them cheesy green-screen effects (you know the kind I mean), where he throws a lever and a metal mold comes down and stamps out Toyota Camry, 8,999, Ford Explorer, 12,699, whatever.

Shortly thereafter, they were sued and had to take down the ads. Apparently people considered it false advertising to refer to a "used car factory" if you did not have an actual factory that literally produced used cars. Apparently some people couldn't distinguish the reality.

That's what this whole ME3 lawsuit business feels like to me. Bioware are trying to tell a particular story, and the control one has over the events of the story is and always has been limited to the content produced by the company consistent with the decision tree they presented you to begin with. The parameters and limits of the story and the decisions have always been exactly what Bioware allowed you to experience, neither more nor less.

The only possible thing that could make this an appropriate comparison was if the ad in question said something to the affect of "no, I'm not making this up, it's not a joke. They literally have a car-stamping factory behind the auto lot".

There was no quibbling over details, no hyperbole. "There is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute," - BBB. This is a professional opinion of someone who has no connection to the game company or the fandom, but instead makes this kind of judgement call for a living. You might try listening.

 

[Clebold]

Is anyone else picturing Peter Molyneux just laughing his british ass off at the "Retakers" right now? Just me?