BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[AnarchistAbe]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

 

[tangoprime]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

 

[Aprilgold]

Man your missing points all over the place today. You alright man? Eating healthy and all the water you need is being drank?

I never said Mass Effect couldn't have a depressing ending, or that every ending had to be depressing, but your just widely shouting out accusations. Disney can be as happy as long as it wants, because they are good at making movies, Mass Effect can be as grim as it wants, but if its written horribly then its bad. I guess its like comparing a pixar movie to what a kid wrote in english class in Gradeschool. Obviously Pixar is going to be better in every way to that little kid. Pointing out that the kid should try again isn't like telling Pixar to remake a movie.

And, I'm saying that DisneyLAND advertises itsself as the "happiest place on earth". I don't think it is. I'm going to report them to the BBB, because that is obviously false advertising. No?

Also, no need for personal insults. Thanks.

Caring about your personal health is now a insult?

Opinions is different then legal actions, I covered this in my first reply. A opinion can not be the only force behind a lawsuit, there has to be something legal behind it. Disagreeing with something does not entitle you to gain money from a lawsuit. Disney Land, if they promised to give you many items such as a ton of Mickey Mouse Dolls if you came on a specific day, publicly and they did not do so then that could very well be false advertising, since you would have most likely not gone there otherwise.

You have so little understanding of everything that your either need to gain a more healthy appetite and grab a good book or your current age has made you ignorant to other things except for your own opinion. My suggestion is to understand what your arguing before you argue it, since you don't even know what qualifies as false advertising.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

 

[tangoprime]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

 

[Murmillos]

I'm just going to nail down a few points...

I haven't posted on the Escapist in a while, and thank God I continued to stay off this place.

This shit depresses me to no end. Good job, guys. You've single handedly made us gamers look like a bunch of whiny brats.

You know how every week or so, we hear of a woman/man using 911 because a fast food place wouldn't refund their cheeseburger because they forgot to take the tomato's off? Is that one person the poster child of everybody who then complains to the store on a wrong order? No? Yes a few people went over board.. But that in no way makes every body else look like whiny brats. The really few who really whined, do not even make for the small percentage of people who have spoken up, who still make up a small percentage of people who even care.

So the 1%, is not the 99%.

There's criticism, and then there's whining.

If by whining you mean using or voice of our concerns to a company, that we expected to do better?
So let me guess, you have never "whined" in your life; and anytime you don't get what you order you only state "I expect next time that you get it right" instead of them fixing it then and there? Because guess what, anytime you want an immediate fix, by your words, its "whining".

Topping that off with attempting to ruin a company just fucking draws the line.

So if a company no longer delivers on its promise on goods, we should just say thats perfectly fucking ok that they don't deliver, because its a bad that that a company that doesn't deliver on what they goes out of business.
Companies that make crappy produces and don't fix it go out of business. If BioWare no longer wishes to provide games that players feel value of playing, then why should we continue to support them? They no longer provide a value, we find somebody else who does.

Thats the nature of business; if a restaurant continued so serve you undercooked/cold food (thats expected to be warm). Would you continue to eat there, or would you go somewhere else that served you well cooked / warm food? You still must love bad food, because oh no.. because it would be bad if that restaurant goes out of business.

Players are only stating if BioWare can't deliver on good stories, then they have no reason to continue to buy their games (because mostly, game play wasn't great, but you played BioWare games for the mostly above average game story -- RPG players anyways).

If people just said that the ending wasn't good, sure, that's fine. That's just expressing your opinion, which you have every right to do. What makes people dumb is an over exaggeration of the problem. You haven't been cheated here, you just didn't like a small aspect of the game (namely, the 10 minute ending of a 25 - 30 hour game).

Its a ENDING of a trilogy. Just not a 25-30 hour game, but for most people 120 hours. And just not one 120 hours, normally most people had 2-5 Shepard's; each with major differences. Then end result is 0 of those choices matter. Only the score of that choice matters, which can be completely over written by MP. You don't invest 120 hours into something, to let somebody else just stomp all over it and you go "oh lol.. you got me good... ha haa.. this is pure crap.. but oh well.. good show, good show. Lets do it AGAIN!".

Here's a tip, free of charge - if you don't like the game, don't support Bioware in the future.

Thats what we are doing, but we are telling them, "Hey, Fix this, or we won't support you in the future" but wait.. isn't supporting them in the future also risk the chance of ruining a company.. I mean, if enough people don't support them.. then they get shut down.

Hypocrite much?

Plus, most of you guys need to take a step back and say this to yourself - "it's just a game". It seems heavily counterproductive to spend this much time being pissed off at an entertainment product.

So you love all music, all movies, all books and haven't criticize one single aspect of "personal" entertainment, ever?

Yes some people have taken this one issue a little over-board; but those crazy few is not EVERYBODY; nor even "most".

As for the forums, I'm sure no one here cares - but I'm leaving this place for good. Fuck all this negativity and cynicism and wannabe-pessimistic bullshit. I'm just gonna be here to see some weekly videos and the MLP group.

As for The Escapist - "The last bastion of intelligence", my ass. The worst kind of idiots are the ones who think they're smart.

Sounds like you need a hug. Doesn't MLP teach tolerance? Haven't you learned anything from MLP? Sounds like you need to rewatch all of MLP.. 20x. You have a cold cold heart.

 

[Sutter Cane]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

 

[tangoprime]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

How so? Disneyland said it was the happiest place on earth and I wasn't happy =/= valid complaint against Disneyland to the BBB. Whereas "Disneyland press release indicates I'd get a day pass and get a 2nd free and when I bought my day pass I didn't get a second free" WOULD be a valid business complaint.

Again- see my earlier post, there were specifics mentioned during the advertising cycle by the project director which turned out to be blatantly and unequivocally incorrect. Also valid product complaint =/= bitching.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Okay, well what if the director of Disneyland came out with a specific press release and told you you'd get things for coming to a park, and that turned out to be blatently incorrect? That WOULD be false advertising. See quote by Project Director of Mass Effect 3 above.

I was promised a good time. I did not have it.

Okay, well if you can't comprehend the argument, it's not my fault.
Very specific objective things mentioned about a product that are specifically not delivered is different than all the movie advertisements that say it's the best movie of the summer, as that's subjective.

No matter if you still don't understand this line of reasoning, because the BBB does. Good luck with your complaint against Disneyland.

You're trying to discredit me, but you do not understand either. We are talking about the SAME THING. Seriously. You can ***** all you want, but I promise you that your point is just as ridiculous as mine.

How so? Disneyland said it was the happiest place on earth and I wasn't happy =/= valid complaint against Disneyland to the BBB. Whereas "Disneyland press release indicates I'd get a day pass and get a 2nd free and when I bought my day pass I didn't get a second free" WOULD be a valid business complaint.

Again- see my earlier post, there were specifics mentioned during the advertising cycle by the project director which turned out to be blatantly and unequivocally incorrect. Also valid product complaint =/= bitching.

If I was promised these things MONTHS before DisneyLand was built, I would agree. You are trying to hold them to something they had intended to and WANTED to build. Time and budget didn't allow them to. Maybe even the tech. And now you want this awesome company, who made a franchise people obviously love, to have this stain on their record? Maybe a little selfish? Maybe?

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Correct.

I was going to post about lucas realizing art belongs to the public but the previous poster covered that.

I am saying changing the Greedo han solo exchange was wrong. it was already fine as is, and if you notice it does not look right in the new rendition. It made the work worse. It looks unnatural.

Changing the mass effect ending would be fine because the writers did a half job. It was botched.

It is easy to apply to the rest of the world. If a significant amount of customers were unsatisfied with a company's commercial art, the company risks sales in the future. Businesses have figured that out ages ago. See easy answer.

Yes people should be forced to regard me as the final arbiter of what is good and what is not.

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Correct.

I was going to post about lucas realizing art belongs to the public but the previous poster covered that.

I am saying changing the Greedo han solo exchange was wrong. it was already fine as is, and if you notice it does not look right in the new rendition. It made the work worse. It looks unnatural.

Changing the mass effect ending would be fine because the writers did a half job. It was botched.

Why am I saying that? Because the world is not black and white. What applies to one case does not apply to the other.

It is easy to apply to the rest of the world. If a significant amount of customers were unsatisfied with a company's commercial art, the company risks sales in the future. Businesses have figured that out ages ago. See easy answer.

Yes people should be forced to regard me as the final arbiter of what is good and what is not.

 

[porpoise hork]

Sweet Jesus tap dancing Christ people it's just a video game.

Bioware ain't Burger King, you can't always have it your way..

I went out and got all three editions and play them just to see what the fuss is all about..

And you want to know what I have come to about it? I don't have a single issue with the way they ended the game.

Why?

IT'S THEIR GAME!

That's how they wanted to end it.


If you thought the end sucks well ok thats your opinion and many of you have made more than enough stink about it. Seriously its time to move on.

 

[Sutter Cane]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

So you're saying that in one situation changing the work is worng, but in the other it's perfectly ok, simply because YOU PERSONALLY DISLIKE the original work in ME's case? wut? How do we apply that to the rest of the world? Should everyone be forced to regard you (or any other individual person really), as the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not?

Because it seems like you (like MovieBob) have missed the point, here's something to clear it up:

Mass Effect is a game series, sold to gamers on promises of what the product will be. These promises constitute as advertising, allowing us to buy the product based on this advertorial promises. They are not delivered and the game, as it stands, is unlike the content that we were told it was in an attempt to make us buy said product. Similar to having been advertised a large, well done steak and instead delivered a small, rare slab of it. You ask for this product to be changed.

Star Wars is a film. It was created by a number of people, of which, ironically, Lucas was on a relatively lower ladder. The majority of the masterful work was created in the editing room, after quite a few disastrous screenings. The film was released. It found an audience. The director held speeches about how art now belongs to the public. That is shouldn't be messed with. Years pass, Lucas goes and tampers with the original material, doing away with traces of the original work as extensively as he can. Altering history and the art that he claimed belonged to the public. The public cries out; don't mess with that, it's not broken. Or mess with it, fine, but leave us the originals. Lucas does not comply, but continues his alterations further - into the domain of films that are not even directed by him, thus going further against his previous statements. Again, the public calls him out on it.

Better now? Notice how such actions are not in fact against each other in the slightest, but actually follow a very similar logic?

I fail to see a significant difference, as both are works of art. I'm not even saying that its wrong for bioware to change the ending, I'm just asking for a little consistency is all. Do you think it should be ok for an artist or groups of artists go go back and alter a creative work after its release to attempt to improve it?

If its ok to do so, then lucas has the right to continue to change star wars in any way he sees fit, no matter how much it seemingly damages the film, if its not ok, then bioware should have stuck with the original shitty ending.

Also just fir the record, I support bioware doing the extended ending. In fact my position before they announced it kinda fell in between the two extremes of the argument over changing the ending, which was "If bioware feels that a changed ending would improve the ending, then they should go right ahead and change it, but if they are happy with the released ending, they are not morally obligated to change it."

 

[Chosen_Chaos]

It's possible that developers will push out bland, generic stories in an attempt to avoid the kind of backlash that's happened with ME3, deciding that the risk isn't worth it.

It's equally possible that developers will take greater care in crafting their stories so that they don't fall apart at the climax - since that's what prompted the backlash in the first place.

True enough, but I suspect that many - if not most - dev teams will go with the path of least resistance, especially if their corporate overlords are starting to get impatient.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

True enough, but I suspect that many - if not most - dev teams will go with the path of least resistance, especially if their corporate overlords are starting to get impatient.

One might argue that BioWare choosing the path of least resistance is exactly what started this whole mess to begin with.

 

[soulfire130]

So we're using technecalities now, are we? Fine. Two can play that game. The player did have their decision matter. It just was a desicion to choose which ending you want that look too similar to each other so it just happen to look like the endings had no sense of doing anything different.

Also, since you just need to figure out what to do to cause which ending all games with multiple endings are games with A,B,C endings so saying ME3 has mutliple endings, people that bought the game should have known better should not have believed Bioware because it is TECHNICALLY impossible to make not turn a multiple ending game into a A,B,C ending game.


Seriously that is the problem with the endings. If they just showed more of what happen to the universe in each ending then the angery fans will stop and everyone will be happy with the endings.


Captia: harp on

-_- I already did somewhere else.