BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Darkmantle]

Gentlemen, check out this lovely ad that EA/Bioware put out...

oh god.

oh... GOD!

EA MARKETING YOU VILE BASTARDS!!!!

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

"demand" are all of a sudden the mast majority of the 'disappointed in the ending' group.

And just what is the difference between somebody "demanding" a change, and saying "not changing the ending may jeopardize the amount of money I will pay for your next game"? Probably you can't explain, because its just easier to use derogatory terms such as "entitled whiners" and "demand" instead of "disappointed gamers" "strongly wanting a change".

No where did I equate these people to the majority. I said simply this "Those that complain and want change are fine. Those that demand change and act like they own it are entitled". I didnt comment on what % of people each group was. Thus your point is pretty much invalid since you based it on... guessing? I dunno. It made me look bad. The ones ASKING for a change are the latter you described, the ones DEMANDING a change

Lets just continue this silly hypothetical situation of yours:
Lets say you did a series of paints with a very specific "design", all pictures put together would be part of one larger whole and somebody paid you in advance for those paintings to be completed. As you continued painting for said client, you explicitly make promises to very specific features/styles/colors of said paintings that the client would get to enjoy, even while said paintings were finally being shipped to said client. Finally when he opens up those paintings, one by one, all of them are as promised, except for one - the last one. All of the other paintings fit together and look great together except for this one panting that is the center piece. The client comes back and goes; "I don't understand why you did the last painting like this .. it wasn't what you promised me and I would like that you change it. I suggest that you do change it if you want us to continued business."

You think about it.. on one hand, you did promise him that last painting was going to be the paintings that made the whole picture "complete". But on the other hand, your last minute artist integrity is at stake. You know other people will still buy your work, but will they buy your work in lower volume, or wait until its at a lower price? How much of your name are you willing to gamble that it gets mangled over a continued implied promise vrs your own skill with the brush.

I feel that example doesnt hold because it was simply one ASPECT of the painting in my example that didnt stick with the quality of the previous ones, not the entire thing. The whole game of ME3 was good, only the last bit was bad. The painting itself isnt flawed all the way. Id say the dude you are describing is one the not-entitled people complaining about the mass effect ending. It isnt so much a demand as a reasoned response.

Bioware did fuck up. They deserve people to offer this ultimatum of better or bust. The idea that we deserve better and they need to fix right now just for us is silly. It was also somewhat the buyers fault for buying a painting he had never seen before. Seriously. Wait until you see it first. Its not smart business or consumerism to buy something you know very little about and then complain about the quality.

I think the "retake" message was more like a movie "retake", not in re-take and do it our way, but "come on BioWare, you know this isn't right and we think you know what we wanted; go back and do a "retake".

Your right, the property of Mass Effect isn't ours, but you know what is ours, the experience. We would really really like for, perhaps even want, even to the threat of future business, that BioWare should redo their efforts so we may have a chance to "retake" the ending; to something that is more palatable, that continues the theme and logic the previous 100 hours taught us to learn.

It doesn't have to be an ending that we necessarily like, but it should be an ending that we can understand. Most mature gamers can respectfully disliked an ending, and at least understood the meaning and why the that ending was the ending. But ME3 doesn't give us that respect to allow us to respect it back.
That lack of respect is the reason that this force over the dislike of the ending continues on strongly for as long as it has.

I never thought to read it like that. I see your point there. I always saw it as "retake" as in make ours and to be honest i still kind of read it that way, however i see what youre saying at it makes sense. Fair enough.

Any ending can garner a "retake" group (and most do in some form or fashion). Most last a week or two, but then fizzle down as most people don't partake because there was no promise or personal involvement to said medium. Mass Effect is very different because it was my choice if my Shepard liked Garret and Wrex and Tali, or not to like any of them. And may other players feel this way. Since our interaction was to matter, then why take that away at the very last minute to impose a new unclear message at the very end.

The breaking of promises i can understand but having an ending that is simply rubbish, even with player choice, is a common thing in every medium games or otherwise and it doesnt invalidate the good core gameplay or the fun had throughout the entire ride of the series. Its just the odd idea that mass effect 3 is a total riot until the end that saddens me. Reading retake like you do now rather than like i did a retake group makes more sense. This has changed how i see it.

 

[Mournblade94]

Quit the hyperbole.

The reason you see thread after thread about this HERE is because you are reading a thread about it.

I think about the mass effect ending fail when I am in this thread. Not 24 hours a day. I do not assume that an internet poster posting an opinion ONLY thinks of that topic.

A good rule of thumb to follow: If you are sick of something do not open threads about the topic that you are tired of hearing about. Simple.

Now it's your turn to quit it. Quit making absurd assumptions, that is.

I didn't say "24 hours a day", and I agree that the best option is to try to avoid them. However that proves rather difficult when many of the trending news stories are about ....you guessed it, ME3! Looking at the Escapist alone, there's five threads on ME3 on the first two pages of the News Room board....no other game has that much recent coverage. And that doesn't even include the threads for Yahtzee ranting about ME3 (and yes I meant plural, because several people started their own threads just to rant about this) , the threads for MovieBob doing it, the threads for Critical Mass doing it, the threads for Jim Sterling doing it....you beginning to see my point?

I see the point. Exactly. It is just a simple one to ignore. Start a topic that interests you, and if others are interested tehy will participate. If it is still interesting people, there will be participation. I got rid of cable TV because I got sick of reality shows. I didn't demand others stop watching them (though for the intellectual integrity of the united states it would be a good idea). Now I do not see reality shows so they no longer bother me.

It's sort of like how people got sick of hearing about how amazing Skyrim is. You can't really blame them for it when it is, in fact, taking up a significant portion of what's being reported, far more than any other news story or game title.

It cannot be said enough how awesome skyrim was. If that is what fans want talked about, it is talked about. What is the problem?

And really, the fact that you felt it necessary to jump right to the "if you're sick of it then don't read it lol" defense is sort of proof-positive that it's the ME3ers who aren't getting it any more. (inb4 "but I'm not an ME3er, I've never even played the game!" or a similar such defense)

I get it. It is just not a concern of mine whether or not people are sick of it or not. Just as you mistakenly think I am whining.

And so, to recap my prior statements (before you decided that you had to respond with the "then don't read it" defense): We know. The game's ending sucked. But Bioware isn't changing it. So tough it out. ME3 is hardly the first game to provide a "fuck you" ending and it won't be the last, so if you want sympathy I'm going to have to ask you to get a ticket and stand in line with all the other fanbases who have watched their franchise take a turn for the worst. Or, if you just want to whine out loud and don't want people to complain about your whining, then whine to your pillow as it is incapable of forming and expressing an opinion.

To recap:
Just as you do not care that I am upset with the ending, I do not care that you are sick of the news stories about ME3. Every news story about the ME3 ending is more pressure for Bioware to see there are people taht may not buy their games in the future. I think that is the point being missed by most people. The demand is Bioware make a change or people LOSE FAITH in bioware and do not buy their games in the future. it is a CUSTOMER demand, not a fan demand. Its like not supporting a band after they make a bad album.

So once again. Don't read the thread. However the news helps put the the pressure on Bioware. That is what I care about.

I get it very well. I just choose to participate in the movement putting pressure on bioware (and I did not even sign the petition).

 

[TheSchaef]

A local car dealer ran some ads a few years ago referring to their dealership as a "used car factory", and to drive home the metaphor, the dealer ad had one of them cheesy green-screen effects (you know the kind I mean), where he throws a lever and a metal mold comes down and stamps out Toyota Camry, 8,999, Ford Explorer, 12,699, whatever.

Shortly thereafter, they were sued and had to take down the ads. Apparently people considered it false advertising to refer to a "used car factory" if you did not have an actual factory that literally produced used cars. Apparently some people couldn't distinguish the reality.

That's what this whole ME3 lawsuit business feels like to me. Bioware are trying to tell a particular story, and the control one has over the events of the story is and always has been limited to the content produced by the company consistent with the decision tree they presented you to begin with. The parameters and limits of the story and the decisions have always been exactly what Bioware allowed you to experience, neither more nor less.

 

[JarinArenos]

A local car dealer ran some ads a few years ago referring to their dealership as a "used car factory", and to drive home the metaphor, the dealer ad had one of them cheesy green-screen effects (you know the kind I mean), where he throws a lever and a metal mold comes down and stamps out Toyota Camry, 8,999, Ford Explorer, 12,699, whatever.

Shortly thereafter, they were sued and had to take down the ads. Apparently people considered it false advertising to refer to a "used car factory" if you did not have an actual factory that literally produced used cars. Apparently some people couldn't distinguish the reality.

That's what this whole ME3 lawsuit business feels like to me. Bioware are trying to tell a particular story, and the control one has over the events of the story is and always has been limited to the content produced by the company consistent with the decision tree they presented you to begin with. The parameters and limits of the story and the decisions have always been exactly what Bioware allowed you to experience, neither more nor less.

The only possible thing that could make this an appropriate comparison was if the ad in question said something to the affect of "no, I'm not making this up, it's not a joke. They literally have a car-stamping factory behind the auto lot".

There was no quibbling over details, no hyperbole. "There is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute," - BBB. This is a professional opinion of someone who has no connection to the game company or the fandom, but instead makes this kind of judgement call for a living. You might try listening.

 

[Clebold]

Is anyone else picturing Peter Molyneux just laughing his british ass off at the "Retakers" right now? Just me?

 

[Sanguinedragon]

Is anyone else picturing Peter Molyneux just laughing his british ass off at the "Retakers" right now? Just me?

Actually I can see him and other developers going
"holy crap we might actually be found accountable for our crap!"

 

[Lovely Mixture]

It's not so much that I don't care whether or not you're upset about the game,

When you earlier asked "Can this discussion be OVER ALREADY?" You seemed to imply such.

1) .... the degree of "upsetness" being portrayed. People seem to be acting like this game's bad ending is so demanding of serious attention that it merits federal charges and complaints, as well as taking over internet polls just to vote EA as "worst company EVAR"....that's not the way an adult protests something they don't like, that's how children behave.

There different degrees of "upsetness."

1. I hated the ending, I think Bioware should change it.
2. I hated the ending, I think Bioware should be sued.
3. I hated the ending, I think Bioware should understand how we feel.
4. I didn't hate the ending, but I think Bioware should listen to the fans.
etc
There are so many that I could fill an entire page.

Just because there are some fanatics in a movement who decide that legal action is the best course of action, does not destroy the possibility of legitimate complaints.

2) .... the fact that it has continued despite Bioware already issuing statements saying that they will NOT change the endings. All this talk of "media pressure" and such is downright hilarious as it indicates that, no, you really don't get it. Bioware said "no, we're not changing the ending", ergo it's safe to say that they aren't changing the ending no matter what further pressure you try to place on them.

If you want to keep dreaming that they'll one day cave to your demands, then go for it. Just don't be upset when it never happens. Or (as I said in my last post) you could do the more logical thing and just stop giving EA your money, like I did years ago.

People aren't allowed to complain if it won't make a difference? Some people just want to be heard, is it that hard to grasp?

 

[Lovely Mixture]

And Bioware clearly isn't listening.

So go ahead, keep complaining when they've already made their decision. Then watch in awe as they refuse to change their decision,

You keep bringing this up. No one is arguing that Bioware won't change their decision.

When I said "heard." I didn't necessarily mean "heard by Bioware." People like to argue, just as I am doing so now.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

You know, they never mentioned what outcomes would be affected by your choices. They never specifically said the ending would be affected. The world "experience" is too vague. Everyone could say that there play throughs of Mass Effect were distinct and affected by their choices until the very end, thus their "experience" of the series as a whole does fulfill the requirements of being affected by choice. Yes, the VERY ending was not affected by choices, but I don't think you could say it was false advertising.

I agree with the complaints about Mass Effect 3's ending, but this is a claim that is debatable.

 

[TheSchaef]

This is a professional opinion of someone who has no connection to the game company or the fandom, but instead makes this kind of judgement call for a living. You might try listening.

Yes, that is what's been missing from my life. I've been wandering the barren wastelands of poor judgment, when all this time, all I had to do was "try listening".

Because clearly, there are only two types of people in the world: those who think people should go to court over a video game, and people who need to "try listening".

Thanks for straightening me out on that, and for doing so with gentleness and civility rather than condescension and sarcasm.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

So what you're saying is that you're arguing for the sake of being heard....with people who are sick of hearing it?

And you don't understand how they might be just a little annoyed at this, after over a month of non-stop coverage and internet attention, and a definitive statement from the developer that says "it won't be changed"?

Then like Bioware, you could not listen if you chose to. But you keep coming back. If you don't want to argue, then don't respond, power of silence.

And it's not even been an equal argument from the start. "You just don't get it!" has been said to everyone who disagrees with the Retake ME3 movement. EVERYONE. Essentially any opposing opinion on the subject is generally just written off as someone who "just doesn't understand", even though in some cases they have presented very valid and well-reasoned opinions

And now you generalize one side People on both sides have done both valid arguments and "you just don't get it" or "you have entitlement issues" or "you're a soulless puppet of EA that is everything wrong with gaming."

and have pointed to various other games as precedent for this same sort of "bad ending" situation.

And some of us don't see this situation as the same. Whether that's relative to the product being sold is something that still interests me.

 

[JarinArenos]

Thanks for straightening me out on that, and for doing so with gentleness and civility rather than condescension and sarcasm.

You implied that the issue in question had no legal merit. I stated (albeit in a slightly caustic tone) that might want to pay attention to the opinion of someone whose career involves analyzing the merit of this sort of issue. Unless, of course, you are in a similar professional opinion and care to publish a dissenting opinion.

This does not demand that you agree with the analysis, but like armchair climatologists who call global warming a sham after a particularly cold winter, you should at least stop and recognize the opinion of someone with professional expertise.

Edit: I am not a lawyer, and don't know the laws regarding false advertising. I don't even know if the BBB opinion has any bearing on the FTC case, nor do I really care at this point (Bioware has now joined the rest of EA on my "do not buy" list along with Activision and Ubisoft, regardless of how this falls out). But if you're going to brush off a published professional opinion, at least have some way to back it up.

 

[TheSchaef]

You implied that the issue in question had no legal merit. I stated (albeit in a slightly caustic tone) that might want to pay attention to the opinion of someone whose career involves analyzing the merit of this sort of issue. Unless, of course, you are in a similar professional opinion and care to publish a dissenting opinion.

For someone keen to lecture me on the merits of giving ear to the words of others (and apparently, now stating that, a 16-page discussion notwithstanding, professional pedigree is now a prerequisite for discussing Things On The Internets), it's a curious irony that you're not showing the comprehension of a person who genuinely read the post to which you chose to direct your ill-conceived shaming campaign.

If you go back and look at the post, one of the very first things I said was that the car dealership in question had to take down their ads, and they were not shown again. This requirement was the result of legal action taken against them for the aforementioned reasons. If the legal action prompted this change, the obvious conclusion is that it had at least some legal merit. So it does not seem logical to me that one would accuse me of saying there is no legal merit, when using a comparative example that not only had legal merit, but actually prompted action on the part of the defendant, and not just a written opinion with no legal weight unto itself.

I'm not denying legal merit because I'm not bothering to wade into that debate. The point of my example is that plenty of stupid things have "legal merit", that doesn't make them not-stupid. And now we have people claiming that they expected Mass Effect to give them complete control over the outcome of the game, apparently not stopping to think that absolutely nothing happens in the game that was not first conceived and scripted by Bioware, which means that every choice, decision and outcome in the game is pre-ordained, not just the one that closes out the story. Bioware have always controlled the narrative.

 

[Undeadpool]

Hence why I included the qualifier "Probably." Also the ending wasn't "broken," it was classic, high science fiction. If that's not to your taste, that's one thing, but in no way was it "broken."

It's like a mob has gotten its hands on a glossary of popular terms, and is stitching arguments together without even stopping to consider the definitions of their favorite buzzwords.

HAW! Funny, I feel the same way...