BioWare: Mass Effect 3 Combat Perfected

[xchurchx]

haraa for good shooting elements
Now all we need is some good ol RPG elements and we got ourselves the greatest game EVAR!!
the down side to all this is that the awesomeness keeps growing and i dont get to see this awesomeness till november..... Haroo

 

[Worr Monger]

I found both games to be very enjoyable in their own ways.

I don't see how this can really go wrong. But then... I was never concerned about the combat in ME3.

All I'm concerned about is bringing an exploration element.. like the Mako.

Like Yahtzee said... bringing about some "tangible bigness" to the game.. and also his point on showing Sheperd actually leaving and entering the ship. These were probably my only real complaints about ME2.

 

[duchaked]

The RPG-crowd are gonna hate it though. "It's justed a dumbed down shooter now! Ruined forever! Waaah!

They already did that for Mass Effect 2, so I say who cares what they think about the 3rd?

I say good. And improvement to the core gameplay is fine by me.

agreed. the combat was much more functional and enjoyable in the second game (in the first game, I preferred making conversations than shooting people...I know, odd. just goes to show)

hopefully Mass Effect 3 is the culmination of everything BioWare has learned with the Mass Effect games, both pros and cons

that, or as long as Garrus has more calibrations to do

 

[CD-R]

I guess from a story or realism stand point it makes sense to strip a lot of leveling up system out. Shepard isn't some rookie straight out of boot camp. He/she's an experienced soldier who has already saved the galaxy at least once. Shepard already knows how to use a gun. the whole experience points system almost seems outdated. I mean, what the hell are they and why does killing things give them to you? I notice a lot of rpgs don't really explain that to you. But that's a discussion for another time.

As for the limited ammo, yeah I think the old system was better. They should either bring it back or figure out a way to combine the two like someone else suggested. You can control your fire and watch the heat bar or you can fire continuously and when the gun overheats reload the thermal clip. ME1 fans will be happy because they've got their unlimited ammo back. And ME2 fans will be happy because they can still spray bullets around with reckless abandon.

 

[Baresark]

This all seems to be semantics over what and what does not constitute an rpg. Personally, I try not to categorize a game by any specific genre and just take it for what it is. If you want every game to be a shining example of a genre, you're going to be disappointed every time. For me, ME1 and 2 were general "action games", Portal was a simple "puzzle game" and New Vegas was a "boring game".

I agree here. Everyone wants to fight over what exactly an RPG is. Everything is becoming more skewed these days. I love RPG's, but it doesn't have to fit that mold of what an RPG is every single time.

That said, you can't add meaningless level progression to a game and call it an RPG either. Dragon Age 1 was a definitive RPG, Dragon Age 2 simply gave you choices of how you wanted your character to attack, it's not really the same thing.

OT: I wonder how ME3 will really be at this point. I don't want a meaningless shooter out of any ME game.

 

[Therumancer]

[
ok to be truthfull it was NEVER suposed to be just an RPG, it was sold as an epic story action RPG. Also dont go bitching just yet about ME3 see as they are bringing back alot of the RPG eliments which will make it a better game. Now i love both games for different reasons 1 had better biotic combat and the custmization,and 2 had better combat, no mako, no cluster fuck inventory(i do miss the custumization but if thats what it took to get rid of that horrible interface so be it), and it did what the second chapter should it set up for the theird while reminding us about stuff we did in the first.

All in all ME3 WILL be better then both because it seems like theyve found balance.

BTW DA2 is a different team so stop saying bioware has sold their soul to EA and that every game will be like DA2!

Actually it was supposed to be an RPG, just one that worked in real time and looked kind of like a shooter.

Lack of inventory and loot, was a big blow against the game. Maybe not for shooter fans, but that kind of thing is a big part of what makes RPGs what they are.

The combat wasn't "better" so much as it was "a shooter" which is better if you want the major determining factor of confrontations to be your abillity to aim/twitch as opposed to what the character you built is capable of. Differant type of game. You can't have the combat based on player reflexs and be an RPG, as RPGs are defined by the capabilities of the character being what does the work as opposed to the person playing the game. Storylines and such are simply tacked onto that.

When it comes to the combat, they have been saying a lot of differant things. Really the only bit they have mentioned as being more "RPG-like" is the powers being able to evolve more than once. Everything else points towards this just being another shooter, weapon mods aren't the same as "loot" and plenty of shooter games use those already. What's more they stated that they ultimatly want to dumb down the game further by removing a big part of the game balance, by pretty much letting every character use any weapon, and simply having class determine how many slots they have. This means that the component of having to play your class is being removed to dumb it down further, with every player being able to take whatever weapons they happen to be most comfortable with, or feel are best for the mission in question. The Assault Rifle being pretty much "Soldier Only" and characters like Vanguards being given Shotguns (pretty much requiring a close-in attack strategy) have been balanced gameplay concepts. I don't much care for doing away with that, the idea seems to be primarily because shooter fans wanted to be able to use whatever gun they wanted as opposed to having to "role play" and adapt what they had to the situation.

Time will tell if I'm right or not, you are definatly not alone in disagreeing with me.

Also for the record, I haven't been going on about the so called "EA Devil" though I imagine they do have some influance.

To put things into perspective, look at the other response I received. People keep talking about how "Mass Effect 2" oldsold "Mass Effect 1" so obviously people embraced the changes and liked them. That's hardly the case, given that most sales take place due to pre-orders and initial sales around the time of release which is why game companies work so hard to surpress negative reviews when a game is first coming out.

Remember also that used game sales, as much as the industry hates them, mean that more people actually play a game than the sales would indicate. A lot of people who purchused the sequel probably played "Mass Effect 1" used. I don't think it was so much a new audience (though there was some of that) as much as the exponential rate at which the used market can cause game audiences to grow without the industry being able to track it.

What's more, people seem to think that those who hate on games are "trolls" who have not played them, that is hardly the case. Especially in the case of "Mass Effect 2" your looking at a situation where the complaints were made by people who paid for the game and were being considered "satisfied customers" on the paperwork, when they really weren't. "Played it but was disappointed" really isn't something marketing for games follows, it's either a sale or it isn't, if the game sells, then it's viewed as being a win.

Understand also that when I say that I think Bioware is in for a surprise, I do *NOT* mean that I think they are going to take a bath, or go out of business, or anything else. I simply think that there is a good chance that "Mass Effect 3" is going to underperform and be successful, but hardly the anticipated blockbuster they are hoping. Plenty of people who otherwise hate it will probably play it just to see how the story ends if nothing else. Bioware can carry some success just on the merits of their writing.

I think right now a lot of people are very wary, and like me, will take a lot of convincing to go running out and buy the game. If this game is a lot more similar to '2' than to '1' then chances are I'm not going to run out and buy it for $60 and support them with DLC purchuses like I have done in the past. I'm more likely to hold off until it drops in price, or pick up a discounted "game of the year edition", or perhaps most likely buy it used after the fact. If it's a massive twitch fest, I'm just going to pass on it, because I'm not a big shooter player, I do play some, but not many, and I don't pay $60 for them. The market they seem to be going for (Bulletstorm, Call Of Duty, etc...) sort of represents to anti-thesis of what I am interested in as a gamer.

To put things into perspective, a few of the shooters I have played are things like the STALKER series, and Precursors, none of which are among my favorite games, but at least they have inventory management and loot.

 

[Baresark]

I guess from a story or realism stand point it makes sense to strip a lot of leveling up system out. Shepard isn't some rookie straight out of boot camp. He/she's an experienced soldier who has already saved the galaxy at least once. Shepard already knows how to use a gun. the whole experience points system almost seems outdated. I mean, what the hell are they and why does killing things give them to you? I notice a lot of rpgs don't really explain that to you. But that's a discussion for another time.

The only thing I can think of is, having faced enemies previously, he now faces a whole new tier of enemies. I like to think of it like this: if you're a professional football player, you're not instantaneously good at other sports, and you can become a professional basketball player, but you are starting pretty much at level 1.

 

[teebeeohh]

I remember reading that in those magazine scans that hit the net awhile back. Sounds good to me.

The RPG-crowd are gonna hate it though. "It's justed a dumbed down shooter now! Ruined forever! Waaah!

Heh.

well the RPG crowd i hang out with didn't hate the combat system in ME2 but the reduction in character development. But since Bioware promised to change that in ME3 I am really looking forward to this.

Reduction in character development? ME2 had MASSIVELY developed characters.

OT: I'm glad, This game looks better every update!

no it didn't
at least not the kind where you have lot's of diagrams, bars and statistics that show you just how much you your character has changed.

isn't this what people were complaining about in ME2?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

The only things I want again in ME3, are more varieties of armor and weapons like you had in the first one, the Mako, and the (almost) unlimited ammo you had for the weapons (with the overheating and all). Fucking hated thermal clips.

Besides that, I'll give this a wait-and-see approach as I am really looking forwards to ME3.

Also, GIVE US JADE EMPIRE SEQUEL! Although the first one ended off the story perfectly, Jade Empire still has many opportunities for more storyline and gameplay advancement that Bioware should really consider taking a second look at. *HEM*

 

[Ziggy]

SNIP.

this.
they did this to dragon age, please don't do it to mass effect too

 

[Azaraxzealot]

I guess seeing is believing, because 'multi-tiered levels joined by ladders' sounds pretty damn frustrating and tedious to me.

exactly the kind of thing the "classic" rpg fanboys want. with extra tedious and some extra frustration on the side to boot

as for me? only thing that frustrated me about mass effect 2 was its sometimes inconsistent cover system that wouldn't let me take cover when i wanted it to. or the enemies that would somehow get behind me while my sometimes useless squadmates did nothing

other than that, where can you go from there?

 

[CD-R]

I guess from a story or realism stand point it makes sense to strip a lot of leveling up system out. Shepard isn't some rookie straight out of boot camp. He/she's an experienced soldier who has already saved the galaxy at least once. Shepard already knows how to use a gun. the whole experience points system almost seems outdated. I mean, what the hell are they and why does killing things give them to you? I notice a lot of rpgs don't really explain that to you. But that's a discussion for another time.

The only thing I can think of is, having faced enemies previously, he now faces a whole new tier of enemies. I like to think of it like this: if you're a professional football player, you're not instantaneously good at other sports, and you can become a professional basketball player, but you are starting pretty much at level 1.

I don't know about that he's still doing pretty much the same thing he did last time. Shooting things that are trying to shoot him. The only really new enemy in the game was the collectors. Who just shoot stuff and occasionally get tougher after being possessed by Micheal Dorn. Everything else Shepard faced in the first game. If he went from shooting things to fighting with a light saber then yeah I could see your point.

 

[Lizmichi]

I love my RPGs but I loved ME2 for how it treated the shooter aspect but it's not perfect. I'm excited for ME3. yaya BioWare.

 

[Baresark]

snip

snip

I don't know about that he's still doing pretty much the same thing he did last time. Shooting things that are trying to shoot him. The only really new enemy in the game was the collectors. Who just shoot stuff and occasionally get tougher after being possessed by Micheal Dorn. Everything else Shepard faced in the first game. If he went from shooting things to fighting with a light saber then yeah I could see your point.

I'm not saying I am right, haha. It just helps me sleep at night as a guy who likes RPG's. I would like to argue that he learns a little more each time he pulls that trigger, but as a carpenter, I sure as hell don't learn something every time I swing my hammer. =P

 

[meryatathagres]

I think Bioware has made a conscious choice towards storytelling and characterization. In the same time reducing min/maxing, numbercrunching, and inventory management.
To fans of old Bioware games, there are some old school style indie crpgs for the PC.

In short they have put more "role" into crpgs, and reduced the "gaminess" (game theory).

 

[lumpenprole]

Okay, tell you what. Dick around with the combat as much as you want.

But if you make me play "Ethel The Ardvaark Goes Quantity Surveying" for all my upgrades again, I quit. I can't count the amount of times I fell asleep running that stupid cursor back and forth across planets.

I mean, I know the vehicle sections from ME1 weren't popular, but I'd take those over a goddamn pixel hunt any day of the week. It's like the devs were punishing people for complaining about the vehicle handling.

For everyone complaining that the weapons didn't upgrade, I understand why you think that. Because you couldn't be fucking bothered with it.

 

[Gill Kaiser]

Well... looks like I won't be buying Mass Effect 3.
Mass Effect 2 was a broken, dumbed down piece of shit and bioware made me pay $120 for an expansion that should have been DLC.
Fuck Bioware. We knew EA would destroy them.
Anyone remember Jade Empire?
Such a good game, shame it will likely never see a sequel.
-Tabs<3-

It's ironic that you're lauding the most consolised game that Bioware had ever made, at least before Dragon Age 2. Don't get me wrong, Jade Empire was a wonderful game, but it was guilty of all the "dumbing down" that Mass Effect 2 exhibited.

Anyway, the lead gameplay designer for the Mass Effect series said after Mass Effect 2's release that she was looking to add back in more RPG elements for ME3. The Game Informer article said that more skill progression/customisation is being added, along with a return of the ability to modify weaponry (and it'll actually show on the weapon's model this time). I'm not too worried.

Bioware are obviously going to try to keep Mass Effect 3's shooting gameplay at a competative level, but the majority of that was done with ME2. It's the RPG side that needs to be fleshed out for ME3, and I think Bioware understand that.

 

[Lordmarkus]

If they refine the combat so it won't get tedious after 100 h playtime, I'll give them tremendous kudos.

It's good to hear them bringing back some of the RPG elements. Not that I'd missed in Mass Effect 2, I play games for the experience, not the numbercrunching.

 

[Zorg Machine]

As long as they don't go back to the ME 1 style.

I don't want to call it bad but when the only thing that's keeping me going is the fact that if I don't, I will get a shitty stroy in the second game...it doesn't really leave room for kind words.

 

[VivaciousDeimos]

Oh great, cue the incessant pissing and moaning about how ME isn't supposed to be a shooter but an RPG, how this ruins the franchise, Bioware is now a sellout to EA, and other completely bat-shit overreactions.

*looks back over 2 pages*

Dammit, looks like it's already well underway.

Sad isn't it? I can't even imagine what it will be like once they start releasing actual trailers and gameplay footage...I can't decide if it will get better or worse.

For one thing, it's not 'supposedly.' They did it or they didn't. I've read the quote aloud twice, and I would say, no, they didn't brag. Nothing close to it, really. I also get the impression he was referring to multiple paths and high/low tiers, not the actual addition of ladders. But that's me extrapolating. A dangerous past-time (I know!)

I swear I remember reading something (but I can't remember where, so consider this pure extrapolation on my part) where they said they were changing the way you climb so you don't have to go into cover to get to a higher level. That's what the whole "ladder" think made me think of. Or maybe I'm completely crazy *shrugs* who knows?