BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"

[FaceFaceFace]

Isn't the point of an MMO to interact in a world with a large number of other players? Why must story be crucial to that - it could be argued, in many ways, that MMO's have "more point" to them than traditional single-player RPG's.

That's fair enough, but I know a lot of the people excited about this game, including myself, and apparently the developers, aren't fans of current MMO's.So doing the opposite is probably the right idea. It's the reason I'm going to play the game.

 

[gblock]

Put up or shut up, already.

So now, this must be the umpteenth time we've heard BioWare developers talking shite; we've been told that FF13 isn't an RPG, and now that MMORPGs have no point and lack stories.

Put up or shut up, boys. You're reaching towards Molyneux-levels of overreaching grandeur, here, and you're going to fall as hard as Fable unless you can actually deliver on this. It didn't matter that Fable was a good game - it only mattered that Fable didn't deliver on its hype. The same holds true of many, many other games that end up overheated due to poor ventilation in the hot air generators.

Put up or shut up. Because the previews aren't so hot on your game; we're not hearing anyone who's previewing your game wetting themselves in quite the way you're describing, and perhaps you ought to be spending more time convincing those people, rather than providing them with fodder for if/when you ultimately fail to meet the unbelievable levels of pressure you're putting on yourselves by pissing on every. single. other. bloody. RPG.

Give it a rest. Make your damn game and release it. Tell us how revolutionary it is *after* it ships, once it isn't all on the cutting room floor, or too broken to play.

Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door. Ship a broken mousetrap, and the world will beat you off the path to their door into the bargain bin, and you'll end up with the same track record as Obsidian, your once alter-ego - people who ship games that hyped well but fell apart.

 

[freakonaleash]

The problem with MMORPGs isn't that the story is absent, WoW has quite a bit of lore. The problem lies in the fact that any game, especially competitive games like MMOs and shooters, will get torn down to its barest mathematical roots. "Elewin's Wind of Celestial Healing" might have three book's worth of story behind it, but to every single person who uses it enough it will become "HOT 150". It's not like they are intentionally doing this, but if you want to be competitive you really have no choice.

Thats the main problem with WoW right now.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Put up or shut up, already.

So now, this must be the umpteenth time we've heard BioWare developers talking shite; we've been told that FF13 isn't an RPG, and now that MMORPGs have no point and lack stories.

Put up or shut up, boys. You're reaching towards Molyneux-levels of overreaching grandeur, here, and you're going to fall as hard as Fable unless you can actually deliver on this. It didn't matter that Fable was a good game - it only mattered that Fable didn't deliver on its hype. The same holds true of many, many other games that end up overheated due to poor ventilation in the hot air generators.

Put up or shut up. Because the previews aren't so hot on your game; we're not hearing anyone who's previewing your game wetting themselves in quite the way you're describing, and perhaps you ought to be spending more time convincing those people, rather than providing them with fodder for if/when you ultimately fail to meet the unbelievable levels of pressure you're putting on yourselves by pissing on every. single. other. bloody. RPG.

Give it a rest. Make your damn game and release it. Tell us how revolutionary it is *after* it ships, once it isn't all on the cutting room floor, or too broken to play.

Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door. Ship a broken mousetrap, and the world will beat you off the path to their door into the bargain bin, and you'll end up with the same track record as Obsidian, your once alter-ego - people who ship games that hyped well but fell apart.

What an enchanted world you live in, my good sir.

 

[Fayth18]

I don't mind people being excited about the concept of an MMO with a good story, but again, and for the final time, I will let it be known that Bioware is NOT innovating the genre. Lord of the Rings Online is already an extremely well crafted story based MMO. If you dont believe me go try it out.

 

[wasalp]

we can only hope they succeed.

Agreed. It might actually lead me to caring about MMO's again.

Wait... that isnt a very good thing, is it?

RUN AWAY IT WANTS TO CONSUME YOUR SOUL

 

[tautologico]

If they intend to keep the fun of a singleplayer experience in an MMO setting, make sure I can play the entire game without ever needing to play with others.

The way I play MMO's is solo. I treat it as a singleplayer game that just happens to be going on at the same time as someone else's game in the same room, sort of.

I hate partying up. Nothing breaks the immersion like text bubbles and internet english being spewn around.

If I can complete the game by myself, I will be satisfied.

Why not play a single-player game then? If I want a single-player experience, I play a single-player RPG. They're clearly superior to MMOs in this department. When I want to play with my friends and coordinate with people towards a common goal, or make my own goals in a more open way (crafting, achievements, etc) I play an MMO. I think this works quite well, and at least to me the whole point of MMOs (yes, there's one) is to play with people, either friends or people you meet online and are not annoying (yes, there are many of those too).

 

[tautologico]

I don't mind people being excited about the concept of an MMO with a good story, but again, and for the final time, I will let it be known that Bioware is NOT innovating the genre. Lord of the Rings Online is already an extremely well crafted story based MMO. If you dont believe me go try it out.

Storytelling in MMOs have been improving since the early times of EverQuest and Vanilla WoW. WoW itself has improved a lot in Wrath of the Lich King in comparison with Vanilla and BC (yes I know some people here said "I didn't pay attention to any of it RAWR I just raced to endgame" but almost everyone I know that plays WoW loved the new questing style in the last expasion). Age of Conan has a very good starting experience with the first 20 levels in Tortage: quests fully voiced, choices, some things BioWare is claiming to do "for the 1st time evah!", it seems. The problem with AoC, of course, is that after the 20 levels there are another 60 that don't have good storytelling behind them. Also, LOTRO as mentioned has good storytelling.

So BioWare seems to be comparing SW:TOR to Vanilla WoW or the original EverQuest instead of current MMOs, which sounds more like a marketing stunt.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

If they intend to keep the fun of a singleplayer experience in an MMO setting, make sure I can play the entire game without ever needing to play with others.

The way I play MMO's is solo. I treat it as a singleplayer game that just happens to be going on at the same time as someone else's game in the same room, sort of.

I hate partying up. Nothing breaks the immersion like text bubbles and internet english being spewn around.

If I can complete the game by myself, I will be satisfied.

Why not play a single-player game then? If I want a single-player experience, I play a single-player RPG. They're clearly superior to MMOs in this department. When I want to play with my friends and coordinate with people towards a common goal, or make my own goals in a more open way (crafting, achievements, etc) I play an MMO. I think this works quite well, and at least to me the whole point of MMOs (yes, there's one) is to play with people, either friends or people you meet online and are not annoying (yes, there are many of those too).

If that were true, then what is the point of Bioware putting a story in an MMO in the first place? Why would they even bother if most people come to MMO's to play with others?

The story is in place I feel so that a single person can appreciate a game just as much as a group can.

 

[tautologico]

Put up or shut up, boys. You're reaching towards Molyneux-levels of overreaching grandeur, here, and you're going to fall as hard as Fable unless you can actually deliver on this. It didn't matter that Fable was a good game - it only mattered that Fable didn't deliver on its hype. The same holds true of many, many other games that end up overheated due to poor ventilation in the hot air generators.

I thought exactly about Molyneux after reading this article. I love BioWare, have played most of their games since the first Baldur's Gate (however, I found kotor somewhat boring), but I fear they're setting themselves up by creating such high expectations. It's hard to match expectations that were building up for years.

I don't know, BioWare's fans tend to forgive a lot of flaws in the games because of the story, but a game of this magnitude won't be able to survive by catering just to their fanbase.

(Also some may expect ToR to be the "new WoW" but WoW wasn't heavily marketed at first and Blizzard never came out to say WoW would revolutionize anything. It's huge success was unexpected even to Blizzard itself).

 

[antipunt]

Well...they can talk the talk. Let's see if they can walk the walk.

*Hopes they can, but is incredibly skeptical*

 

[tautologico]

If that were true, then what is the point of Bioware putting a story in an MMO in the first place? Why would they even bother if most people come to MMO's to play with others?

The story is in place I feel so that a single person can appreciate a game just as much as a group can.

Ideally they could make it work as well for solo playing as for group playing. And I sometimes have played MMOs solo (mostly at times that I didn't have anyone to play with), but I think it is more fun when playing with others, as this is kind of the purpose of having many people playing it at a server.

But if it really has a good solo side, sure, why not? Play it if you find it fun.

 

[Fayth18]

I don't mind people being excited about the concept of an MMO with a good story, but again, and for the final time, I will let it be known that Bioware is NOT innovating the genre. Lord of the Rings Online is already an extremely well crafted story based MMO. If you dont believe me go try it out.

Storytelling in MMOs have been improving since the early times of EverQuest and Vanilla WoW. WoW itself has improved a lot in Wrath of the Lich King in comparison with Vanilla and BC (yes I know some people here said "I didn't pay attention to any of it RAWR I just raced to endgame" but almost everyone I know that plays WoW loved the new questing style in the last expasion). Age of Conan has a very good starting experience with the first 20 levels in Tortage: quests fully voiced, choices, some things BioWare is claiming to do "for the 1st time evah!", it seems. The problem with AoC, of course, is that after the 20 levels there are another 60 that don't have good storytelling behind them. Also, LOTRO as mentioned has good storytelling.

So BioWare seems to be comparing SW:TOR to Vanilla WoW or the original EverQuest instead of current MMOs, which sounds more like a marketing stunt.

Yah, I also found WotLK had some very good storytelling. The whole wrath-gate sequence was awesome.

 

[TheDoctor455]

we can only hope they succeed.

Yeah... if The Old Republic supplants WOW as the main MMO... and if it really does have a great story and maintains a good sense of "purpose" throughout... this could mean that future MMOs will be heading in a different, hopefully much better direction.

 

[Speakercone]

My fear is that in search of more story to add, eventually they'll have to turn their MMO into essentially an interactive soap opera. Like Big Brother......oh god we have to stop them!

 

[BarbaricGoose]

First you say that Voice Acting won't make it great, but then you still go on about how Voice acting will make it great.
Stick to one opinion about it.

Incorrect.

Never once did I say that this game would be great for the VO alone. I said it would help make it great. If you can find a quote of me saying "This game will be great just because of the VO," then I applaud you, sir, and I will eat my words.

I am the last person you need to show the alignment table to.
You should know that Bioware is rather Black & White about their alignments. Either you're good, evil or neutral in their games.
VERY BLACK AND WHITE, so why would this game be diffrent?

Because it's an MMO.

They aren't making points.
They're making blatant insults.

STOP DEFENDING THEM FOR BEING A**H*LES

If another non-Bioware company would had said this, you all would be screaming and lashing out in furious anger. But now when Bioware says it, you're all like "Oh, if Bioware says it. Then it must be true! They're really cleaver!".

In a classic conspiriasists theory, one could say that Bioware is saying this to brainwash you into loving them more than you already did. And as we can see, it works.

If the other company had a valid point to make, as Bioware does, It'd be fine with me. Hell, if it was funny, I'd be okay with it. I couldn't honestly care less what these companies say to each other. It wouldn't phase me if Infinity ward called Activision a bunch of "Insert extremely racist/sexist/horribly vulgar comment here." Not in the slightest. I'd think it was absolutely hilarious!

In Bioware's case, they're making a point. And admittedly probably pushing their product, but they're a business, what do you expect?

Actually you can't use the Jetpack outside of combat as of now.
I doubt they'll change it as they seemingly refuse to add Player Bounties as well.
But we'll see..

I know you can't use it out of combat. It's not Exactly like the pally's bubble. All I mean is that it could be annoying if you're about to kill a BH, and he pops his jetpack ability and you then cannot kill him until he lands.

I don't know even know how this "Jetpack" ability works, I was just speculating.

 

[Nohra]

The major problem with making an MMORPG with a highly influencing storyline, similar to a single-player RPG's, is that MMORPGs are anachronistic in nature. Unless you make extensive usage of a phasing system like World of Warcraft now has (where areas change as you complete certain quests or fulfill certain requirements), you can't alter the game world majorly when one person does something, or it prevents every other player from doing the same thing. This might work for once in a lifetime events, but it also cuts off other players from experiencing content.

Some MMOs try to do this in other ways, like EVE and its system of sovereignty where players can take over large sectors of space. This works to some extent, but in this case the players are writing the story more than the developers are, and this can be a barrier to entry for some players.

The major problem with developing an MMO like a single-player RPG would be how much things have to be rewritten when a major event happens. Some quests in WoW still reference Onyxia as being a looming threat, despite the fact that canonically she's been dead for a very long time. Now, Blizzard has done a generally good job of remembering some of the shortcomings of, say, turning Onyxia into Lv80 content for WoW's fifth anniversary, including moving her old tier drop (T2 helmets) to Nefarian, but it's a lot of extra work when you have to rewrite a few hundred or so quests, or create entirely new ones, because one big baddie is wormfood.

tl;dr, Well, I wish Bioware the best with breaking the MMORPG lack of time passage. Hopefully the game doesn't wind up being frustrating for new players because they can't play with their friends.

 

[tautologico]

The major problem with making an MMORPG with a highly influencing storyline, similar to a single-player RPG's, is that MMORPGs are anachronistic in nature. Unless you make extensive usage of a phasing system like World of Warcraft now has (where areas change as you complete certain quests or fulfill certain requirements), you can't alter the game world majorly when one person does something, or it prevents every other player from doing the same thing. This might work for once in a lifetime events, but it also cuts off other players from experiencing content.

And although phasing works great for solo play, and really gives the player the impression he has some influence on the world, it is a problem when grouping. Try to form a group with a random selection of people to do quests in Icecrown, a heavily instanced area, for example. Most of the time people will be in different "phases" most of the time, where someone sees something and someone else sees another. You also have difficulty calling your friends to help you with Icecrown quests, because a friend will almost always not be in the same phase you are.

So it's one more instance of the single-player x multi-player conflict.

 

[Necromancer1991]

He does have a point in the grand scheme of things ever quest in just about every MMO has no relevance to any sort of plot and is performed solely for the sake of gaining EXP, REP, or some other form of point