BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"

[CheckD3]

Sorry, seemed like you implied that everyone was like you in terms of not wanting to work.

Now, in your large paragraph, youve kinda stated the obvious:

There are people who dont like group play.
There are people who do.

That is nothing new.
In WoW there are also alot of solo players, and there are alot of raiders and PVP-ers who work together.

And ye some players will be deterred from group work, and some wont, thats kinda obvious too...

I was pointing out that I'm like that, hence the there are other players like myself, and then the first person explanation of how I am

The point is, since my post was quoted out of context, that the problem with trying to make a game with a story is making your player the "only one who can stop them" along with a million other "only ones", or making it group based. At least the way I see it. That makes it difficult, because making you the "only one" means that it can easily be turned into a "waste of time" as they call it. However, making it group play cuts the audience down, making it less successful because there are players like myself who would rather work alone and hate dealing with people online.

The thing w/ comparing ST:TOR and WoW is that WoW knows it's just a grindfest, while TOR (and the point of this article) is that the developers don't want it to be like WoW...the fact that there are the 2 groups makes that a problem with making an online game and a story mode. So it's pretty important to point out the 2 different people. WoW works with both, a story can alienate either party, so it'll be interesting to see if TOR will be able to get their story and have their split factions of player types too

 

[UMNiK]

I think i just got a hard on from reading this. WH40K Online with those same principles and i can finally spend those extra 14 bucks per month with pleasure and not frustration.

 

[Nohra]

And although phasing works great for solo play, and really gives the player the impression he has some influence on the world, it is a problem when grouping. Try to form a group with a random selection of people to do quests in Icecrown, a heavily instanced area, for example. Most of the time people will be in different "phases" most of the time, where someone sees something and someone else sees another. You also have difficulty calling your friends to help you with Icecrown quests, because a friend will almost always not be in the same phase you are.

So it's one more instance of the single-player x multi-player conflict.

Indeed, I forgot to mention that particular example. It could potentially be solved with a rollback system for when you're grouped with a player who's on a particular quest, but even still that's extra complexity that's not entirely necessary.

 

[Judgement101]

Has any MMORPG really had a ending goal? On WoW its just quest, quest, quest, grind self retarded, level, raid, die. That's all I've ever gotten out of it but maybe I just don't understand MMO stuff.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Put up or shut up, already.

So now, this must be the umpteenth time we've heard BioWare developers talking shite; we've been told that FF13 isn't an RPG, and now that MMORPGs have no point and lack stories.

Put up or shut up, boys. You're reaching towards Molyneux-levels of overreaching grandeur, here, and you're going to fall as hard as Fable unless you can actually deliver on this. It didn't matter that Fable was a good game - it only mattered that Fable didn't deliver on its hype. The same holds true of many, many other games that end up overheated due to poor ventilation in the hot air generators.

Put up or shut up. Because the previews aren't so hot on your game; we're not hearing anyone who's previewing your game wetting themselves in quite the way you're describing, and perhaps you ought to be spending more time convincing those people, rather than providing them with fodder for if/when you ultimately fail to meet the unbelievable levels of pressure you're putting on yourselves by pissing on every. single. other. bloody. RPG.

Give it a rest. Make your damn game and release it. Tell us how revolutionary it is *after* it ships, once it isn't all on the cutting room floor, or too broken to play.

Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door. Ship a broken mousetrap, and the world will beat you off the path to their door into the bargain bin, and you'll end up with the same track record as Obsidian, your once alter-ego - people who ship games that hyped well but fell apart.

If you're done spamming 'put up or shut up', I suggest you read the full text of the interview where FFXIII came up.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/starwarstheoldrepublic/interview.html

I fail to see how responding with an honest opinion to an example fed to him by the reporter is anything like Molynuex's sense of grandeur, and I suspect that it's much the case with this interview as well. Strategy Informer snipped out the entire text of the review to highlight only his comments about FFXIII, comments he may not even have made had they simply not used an example. Don't go calling Bioware trolls, the real trolls here are the reporters who look to boil everything down to its most sensationalist element.

That said, I'm still not sold on the whole idea of a story driven MMO.

 

[Bealzibob]

I don't want to alarm you, citizens of the Escaspist but...

...We just read an entire article on an up-coming MMO, which is highly anticipated, and there was not a single meantion of WOW or the phrase "wow killer". Did I meantion it didn't have the words MMO and wow in the same article.

God Bless the Escapist.

Anyway I hope this turns out good, getting a bit put off at the daunting task that will be following this games lore. But once (and if...) I get into it i'm sure the quests will just roll by at a leisurely pace. A brand new universe would of been good but I guess the time it would take would be even moar immense. Hopes it's good.

*Crosses fingers*

 

[CKalvin]

Simple as that, because the story is based around the players which is a shifting changing entity, not something that can be accurately measured and analysed to create a story for

Eh... what? Can you elaborate?

Maybe I didn't fully understand that, but the story is based around you and NPCs. Not you and every other player in the game. You can group for missions, if you'd like, but that's optional. The NPCs will not "Shift" or "Change" and unless you turn into the hulk, or something, neither will you.

The story is preset. Every class has a unique one. There will be no unintentional shifting or changing.

But then whats the point of an massiveMULTIPLAYERonline if the story is based around you and NPC's?
+ it doesn't really make sense for it to happen because say, for example, you complete some amazing hectic heroic quest in an MMO and in doing so become a champion of the people etcetc, like many stories go.

How does that work when thousands of other people are doing the exact same thing? Doesn't that break the ingame story when a thousand different people kill the same evil beast that's been plaguing the good land of iono, someplace irrelevant like Canada. (jks I love Canadians)

 

[DTWolfwood]

So are they getting rid of lvl progression? cause thats the only reason y MMO's now piss me off. nothing like getting 3/4 of the way there to max and then hitting the proverbial 'hell' lvls and find yourself without any more solo quests to advance in XP and having to resort to repetitive grinding.

I best be able to max out without ever playing with another single human being if i so choose! and NO GOD DAMN FORCED GROUP QUESTS AT THE END OF A SOLO QUEST CHAIN!!!!!!!!

 

[ZephrC]

I... doubt this will end up being all that big of a deal in the end. Bioware is awesome, and I'm sure this game will have a much better plot than any other MMO, but I can't imagine anybody that plays MMOs caring very much.

To keep players coming back MMOs have to provide thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, of hours of goals. There's no way to actually design that much content in a way that is fun. Sure, it can be fun hanging out and working together with some friends, and MMOs do function as a way of meeting and doing things with other gamers, but as games they must fail because of how they're designed to work. Otherwise people will do all the fun things and then stop playing, and then nobody gets that monthly recurring charge. To prevent that they'd have to provide a thousand hours worth of story, and despite all the money going into this project I don't feel they have the budget for that.

 

[Shealladh]

[quote="JeanLuc761" post="7.198369.6463378I'm not quite going to disagree with you because I know what you said is your opinion, but the problem is that you're stating your opinion as fact.

The majority of gamers and 99% of reviewers disagree with about everything you said.[/quote]

Okay by me, if what I say is fact, then why am I not alone. Alot of other players are as pissed off as me.

The majority of players are waiting for something better!
The reviewers are bought off and can be as trusted as any survey.

I buy a game, try it and make up my own mind about it. What are you trying to say is that maybe I should be yet another sheep and hold my tongue?

Maybe, just maybe Bioware should quite the BS and get on with making their game and let us players see what we think. I am just so sick of game Devs/Publishers bashing others because of their overly paid Egos!

As a player this turns me off even more than a bad game and it wouldn't be the first time I've protested in not buying THAT companies next title as I believe you can hit them in the wallet better than any other way.

But like you said, it's my opinion and you're welcome to yours. I just wish you had of added something to the conversation instead of just quoting me and making a troll statement. Pity...

 

[Zenn3k]

Great!

Now just give Mac support so I can play it!

 

[Shycte]

Great!

Now just give Mac support so I can play it!

I feel sorry for you, but I still laughed.

Anyway, it's great that they will focus on the story. WoW fucked up Warcrafts story so bad it makes me sad.

But does anyone know if SW:TOR will be the "offical story" so to say?

 

[Zenn3k]

Great!

Now just give Mac support so I can play it!

I feel sorry for you, but I still laughed.

Anyway, it's great that they will focus on the story. WoW fucked up Warcrafts story so bad it makes me sad.

But does anyone know if SW:TOR will be the "offical story" so to say?

I believe Lucas has to sign off on everything.

But it being in such a different time period than the Movies, it really doesn't matter, they could really do whatever they wanted (short of blowing up the entire galaxy) and it COULD be canon without affecting the movies at all.

 

[Therumancer]

Well, I'm not sure if I agree with Bioware on a lot of levels.

I think that once WoW came along there started to be more in the way of storylines and such inherant in the game. To be honest WoW has tons of lore, and a number of pretty epic storylines that tie together very well if you follow them. A lot of people (including me) for example can tell you exactly why we're fighting "The Lich King" or previously "Illidan" and who all the various players are.

Looking at "failed" games like "Age Of Conan" and such, you'll notice that they at least made an effort. Age Of Conan even tried to write an in-game explanation as to your character respawned and so on.

Now granted, back with the original Everquest, or even Ultima Online, there was very little in the way of any kind of story or plotline. Ultima Online at least tried, both through the lore, and with a number of in-game events, including one which got seriously attacked due to the name "Zog Cabal" (a referance to something that had been building since the single player Ultima games), one of the first examples of a game company kow-towing to political correctness and backing down/censoring themselves that I bothered to follow.

I am really looking forward to "Old Republic", and am hoping Bioware will include much better storylines than any other MMORPGs, but at the same time I'm a bit concerned that they aren't paying enough attention to the competition. Again to use "Age Of Conan" as an example, that game didn't deliver on half of what it promised BUT it did try and do a lot of the same things (including full voice work) in it's newbie area. From what I've seen of the Old Republic's examples, like a "storyline demonstration" with a Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter teaming up, it seems very similar to what AoC did, albiet they actually delivering on it for the entire game which AoC failed to do.

Such are my thoughts.

I guess part of it is that while I see little point to the upcoming "Cataclysm" expansion in an overall sense, when it comes to World Of Warcraft, I DO see a point in killing Arthas so to speak, and I've been following the storyline since Warcraft III. Maybe it isn't all that deep, but there is a "point" to the storyline so to speak.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Well...they can talk the talk. Let's see if they can walk the walk.

*Hopes they can, but is incredibly skeptical*

I find your lack of faith disturbing. Sorry, not trying to pick on you, but that phrase has been in my mind through the last 4 pages, and you were the most convenient target on the last page.

Anyways, if Bioware can pull of a good story in an MMORPG, more power to them. I just hope they don't sacrifice gameplay in the process.

Also, to anyone mentioning the problems with KOTOR 2, I just want to point out that Bioware didn't make KOTOR 2. Obsidian did. Same with Neverwinter Nights 2, and the hack-and-slash Baldur's Gate games.

 

[ironlordthemad]

Bioware are just refusing to pull ANY punches aren't they?

Next they will be bashing Farmville...

 

[hyperdrachen]

Love ya bioware but MMOs dont turn into time sinks of monthly installments cause the devs forgot about story. They do that because the backers need to keep the players from "being done" before the next expansion comes out and keep that subscription fee coming. The longer they can drag out the content they have now the more profitable it would have been. So look over your shoulder, yeah that's EA, they got people to feed, and projects to fund. So I'll see you guys in my group, camping Sith tower for insignias. It's a ***** camp, 20minute spawn and only 5% drop rate.

The more news that is released, the better this sounds.

This could catapult Bioware to godlike status.

see pre-release hype

They may be geniune but every game is the omega game when its announced. Theres about 100 mmos now that no one remembers that were, EQ Killers, then WoW Killers, Halo Killers, and all other manner of killers. There are game boneyards littered with these would be predators. Bioware certainly knows how to do a good single player RPG but I think theyre naive to think thier vision will make it to MMO fruition. I'll be damned if I won't give it a try though, all my friends are on board and they said we're going bridge jumping on tuesday. I wish them luck and believe in thier workmanship, but I'm skeptical of thier goal.

 

[Marowit]

If they really can put the RPG back into the MMORPG I'll be one happy camper one year from now.

*crosses fingers*

 

[Danpascooch]

Love ya bioware but MMOs dont turn into time sinks of monthly installments cause the devs forgot about story. They do that because the backers need to keep the players from "being done" before the next expansion comes out and keep that subscription fee coming. The longer they can drag out the content they have now the more profitable it would have been. So look over your shoulder, yeah that's EA, they got people to feed, and projects to fund. So I'll see you guys in my group, camping Sith tower for insignias. It's a ***** camp, 20minute spawn and only 5% drop rate.

The more news that is released, the better this sounds.

This could catapult Bioware to godlike status.

see pre-release hype

They may be geniune but every game is the omega game when its announced. Theres about 100 mmos now that no one remembers that were, EQ Killers, then WoW Killers, Halo Killers, and all other manner of killers. There are game boneyards littered with these would be predators. Bioware certainly knows how to do a good single player RPG but I think theyre naive to think thier vision will make it to MMO fruition. I'll be damned if I won't give it a try though, all my friends are on board and they said we're going bridge jumping on tuesday. I wish them luck and believe in thier workmanship, but I'm skeptical of thier goal.

I don't think it's overblown hype, this game very well could make Bioware one of the absolute top names in gaming (even more so than it already is)

There are tons of failed MMOs, but this one has a lot working for it that other failed MMOs don't.

1.) Voice Acted
2.) Strong Niche (story MMO)
3.) Bioware
4.) Unprecedented development funding
5.) Lengthy development time, not rushed
6.) Based on a franchise with high potential, with another MMO already based on it to learn from
7.) New Technology (small advantage, but it is worth noting, this is the newest MMO, so it has the newest technology)
8.) Bioware
9.) Bioware
10.) Bioware

I think it really could live up to it all, I'm under no delusions that it won't be a grind, that's what MMO's are, but I expect it to be more fun than WoW, and I think it will be.

Bioware has banked the trust points with me for years, these guys have never failed to deliver, now they are cashing them in, and you can bet your ass I'll be playing on release day, because I know Bioware is too smart to tackle something like this if they couldn't handle it.

 

[Supernova2000]

TOR never appealed to me for one reason: KoTOR 1+2 didn't arbitrarily restrict access to certain force powers based on your alignment - powers of opposing alignment to yours just cost more force points to use - and i really enjoyed being a good jedi who was as lightning-trigger happy as Emperor Palpatine. That and TOR seems to just piss all over the KoTOR series story, throw it off a cliff and deny it's very existence.

I believe Infinity: The Quest for Earth will be the innovation the MMO genre desperately needs.