BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"

[ZippyDSMlee]

Between the JRPG fans and now this, Bioware have been pissing alot of people off.....

Think they got much more praise than hate about the JRPG thing, since it's what everyone was thinking(unless you're a JRPG fan).

I've played WoW for 4 years before I quit about 8 months ago now, those stories are only interesting if you're willing to sit and shift through waves of tedious quest text, and what "voice acting" are you talking about? I can think I maybe 5 major questlines in WoW with voice acting, and that's it. Unless of course you're trying to count bosses talking, which I wouldn't. =\

Try the new instances, you'll be pleasently surprised

I played the 5 mans, Boss fights have always been about the only interesting part of wow PVE, well designed or not, the story still falls flat unless you want to read quest text.

Eh? Thought you quit before 3.3 came out, Forge of Souls/Pit of Saron/Halls of Reflection, you don't need to read anything for that, it's all explained via voice acting. The whole sneaking mission to undermine Arthas with either Jaina(Alliance) or Sylvanas(Horde) was brilliant.

I quit before 3.3, came back for a bit at the request of others after 3.3, quit again before my month was up.

I guess we have a different idea on what Brilliant is, tacking voice acting onto Jaina/Sylvanas as they talk open-endly to the instance didn't really immerse me much.

I am a JRPG fan....hell I am even a game fan....just of 10 or so years ago where distraction/pretty was not one of the core design elements of the day....

 

[digotw]

The more news that is released, the better this sounds.

This could catapult Bioware to godlike status.

Yeah, i was pretty afraid this game was going to turn into a "WOW-like" end game content rush.

 

[Desaari]

Guild Wars 2 will be far better than the Old Republic. They seem to be doing similar things with personal storylines and such to give your character some meaning and depth. Actually giving the games a few role playing elements.
GW2 will have a system that allows player events to influence the world, where say, if you don't defend a villiage it gets burned down.

I was going to bring GW2 up, and for the same reasons. It looks as good, if not better than, TOR in my eyes. It incorporates solid role-playing elements and stories along with a ground-breaking dynamic MMO environment and a heavily co-op focussed skill system and reward system. At this point I care far more about the progression of GW2 than TOR.

 

[Fearzone]

BioWare has been talking a lot of crap lately. They need to shut their mouths and get back to programming.

MMOs have a point. Actually, they have many. The great thing is, whatever that point is, it is determined by the players and not the game designer. I'll look on the positive side and hope that BioWare is speaking to its devoted fan base, and not showing how big a noob it is when it comes to MMO design.

 

[tcurt]

Voice acting for everything is also a very big accomplishment. As I mentioned before, if you want to learn the story of Warcraft, you've gotta read the lore. I suppose you could also read the quest text, but honestly, you're probably just going to be disappointed, because most quests(Up until raiding, and even some raid quests) are gonna read like this: "Blah blah blah, I have a problem blah blah. Blah blah blah, go to Stonetalon Mountains, blah blah, kill harpies blah blah and bring their harpy hearts to me. Blah blah, and god speed." So why even bother wasting time reading it? It has nothing to do with anything. It's just some random, interchangeable NPC with a problem.
Regardless of your opinion on this, voice acting makes things more interesting, no matter how boring the subject matter is. If I could listen to an Orc say exactly what I quoted, "Blahs" and all, I'd listen to it, cause it's an Orc! Likewise, if Morgan Freeman narrated "Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants," I'd listen to it, cause it's Morgan Freeman.

I still bet there will be at least one really irritating voice that players consistantly hit ESC to skip and just read the quest text (which they will have to have for deaf/HOH players).

Also, a favorite old quote I heard once was "I'd listen to Shelby Foote read the phone book." 2 points to anyone who has any idea who he was and where you could hear him.

 

[Fayth18]

Lord of the Rings Online already combines a great story driven RPG with the MMO genre. However, I do fear that at some point the game will have to just end, as they will run out of Lord of the Rings plot to follow.

For those who don't know, LOTRO essentially breaks their content up into "books" which are series of story driven quests complete with cut scenes that persist beyond the level cap as well as throughout the leveling process. It also has your standard MMO quests, but they are all basically side quests to the main storyline. These books follow the story of the Lord of the Rings, but instead of actually being a member of the fellowship you participate in a story that coincides with theirs and deals with the various other issues Middle Earth was having during the war of the ring. The game also has dungeons and raids which are in most part based on this storyline.

If you are interested in an MMO where the game isn't about "racing to the finish" well, you don't have to wait for Bioware to reinvent the wheel, just go buy LOTRO.

Also, it is interesting to note that the MMOs that are trying to pull this off both draw from entirely separate universes that do not have roots in gaming. (LOTR and SW)

 

[mechanixis]

Ah yes, because Voice Acting = Story!

Hint: Bioware will be doing the exact same thing but most likely without breaking the fourth wall. Or how do you explain the: "Let's fight our way to the captain of the ship, kill him in a cinematic moral choice, then defend the ship from waves of republican soldiers and a few Jedis" - Which could be summed up as "Kill 30 Republic Soldiers. Kill 2 Jedi. Kill 1 Jedi Master. Return when quest is complete".

So perhaps - YOU - should do the research?

You're simplifying the situation to better suit your point, just to make it sound bland. Even if you are doing those things on the most basic level, there's a whole plot behind the quest(and questline) you're doing, you listen and communicate with all the characters, you think about the choices you make because they affect your whole characters story from that point on. It immerses you in the game like no MMO has even come close to.

Why do you so vehemently hate bioware/tor?

Why do you love / defend Bioware?
- I'd guess "Because they make awesome stories"?

Because people are praising Bioware like the return of the King when the truth is that Bioware is nothing more than mediocre in terms of games. They aren't bringing anything new to the table, they're just fixing it and trying to make it sound new. And this works since everyone seems to have gotten mindblown by them.

And no, I am not simplifying it.
I am explaining that it is the same thing - just a diffrent introduction / execution or what to say.

And no again,
While your choices do affect your character, by the end of the day, you're still going to be in the same faction you started as which means that your choices are nothing more than cute little tidbits. Now that was simplified. But I highly doubt your choices will make any greater impact at all, despite what they say.

Oh for...the presence of a story does not necessarily mean good storytelling. Bioware is basically a pioneer in immersion, and they do that through having believable game worlds, characters, and dialogue. You can break any game down into mathematical terms - perform task X to unlock Y - but placing it in a believable context is what elevates it from a series of rote chores to a compelling narrative.

They never claimed to be doing things that were "new", they just know how to correct a lot of the major flaws that story-interested gamers are most frustrated by. And because they're the only people who really make an effort in that department, they're rightly praised for it.

I mean, what Bioware games have you played to give you the impression they're all mediocre knock-offs of Final Fantasy VI?

 

[Akihiko]

Oh, here we go again. Complaining about other games of their genres again, are they?

Admittedly, I do somewhat agree, but that is besides the point.

How are they complaining? They're simply stating facts, they didn't even mention any specific games, just a commentary on the genre, and I didn't see one thing they said that was wrong(as you acknowledged).

It's not a fact though. I already said I do agree with what they're saying to a certain extent. However, some people will argue, there is a story, and in actual fact, there is. There isn't much, and it isn't great in my opinion, but there is some. Whether you agree with it is besides the point here. They need to stop complaining about other games in their genres, to make them seem better, and instead, actually prove to us that they are better, with their games.

Anyone can bash another, but actually proving their worth, that is another thing entirely. Actions speak louder than words, after all.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

I love how you completely disregard Square's FFXI and the deaf people.
Not that I am deaf but just how useful is voice acting to those who cannot hear?

Voice Acting is not a big accomplishment, but it's certainly a nice quirk and I commend them for that. It's going to be very nice to listen to recorded narration. And yes, Bioware does write kinda good stories although they tend to break appart half-way through because they start talking about A LOT MORE UNINTERESTING STUFF.

Here's the thing:
Bioware is not the messiah of the videogame industry as some people seem to believe. SW:TOR will be "Just another MMO" - BUT it will be a GOOD MMO most likely, and trust me - There will be 'filler missions'. If you've played say KOTOR, then you can be sure as hell that there will be filler missions, not to mention MMO's in general.

Yes. Let us fault a game because deaf people might have a hard time playing it. While we're at, let's fault the game for not featuring controls for those of us without thumbs. Oh, and we can't forget about the blind! This game better feature some sort of advanced program that projects tangible braille, or I refuse to buy it! Seriously, though, you cannot fault a game because it doesn't cater to a small group that has some sort of disability. That's just redundant. Besides, it might have subtitles. Who knows? We've heard nothing about it. I don't think "Accessible to the deaf" is a big selling point, these days. I don't think it ever was, actually.

As for Bioware being the messiah, I agree. They're not. They are, however, very talented designers and writers. You might not appreciate them, but a lot of us do. I'm sure there are people out there who think Arthur C. Clarke is an illiterate idiot who couldn't write an interesting story if it bit him in the ass, but the majority of those into Sci-Fi novels love his work.

Why do you love / defend Bioware?
- I'd guess "Because they make awesome stories"?

Because people are praising Bioware like the return of the King when the truth is that Bioware is nothing more than mediocre in terms of games. They aren't bringing anything new to the table, they're just fixing it and trying to make it sound new. And this works since everyone seems to have gotten mindblown by them.

You are stating your opinion as fact. When, in actuality, the majority of gamers and critics favor Bioware's games.

And no again,
While your choices do affect your character, by the end of the day, you're still going to be in the same faction you started as which means that your choices are nothing more than cute little tidbits. Now that was simplified. But I highly doubt your choices will make any greater impact at all, despite what they say.

*Sigh*

You are just determined to hate this game, aren't you? You can't just look at the choice system in an MMO and say "Wow, that's never been done before. Looks good." You, instead, must find a fault, I don't think anyone else has thought of. You can't switch sides.. Hm.. Good point. Not a big deal, though. You couldn't switch side in WoW, or any other MMO, either. In WoW, you had to roll on a PvE server. Although, you still couldn't actually switch your characters(Unless you pay real $$$) you just had to start a new one on the other faction. For some reason, though, I don't think you're faulting other MMOs for that.

And really, because you're on the same faction, your choices don't matter? What about players who don't want to desert their faction? What about players who genuinely like the Sith, or Jedi, and don't want to switch? Their choices don't matter, for some reason? Ridiculous.

No, this is what they do.
They complain about others to make themselves look bigger.

Bioware is nothing but the gaming industry bullies.

And how are they the bullies, again? As I recall, bullies, beat other kids up for fun, stole their lunch money, and were just dicks in general. Bioware has never beaten up another company, or individual. They've never stolen another companies assets, or anything. They don't seem like bullies to me.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you called them bullies, instead of simply calling them bullies with zero evidence and no reason why?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

If they intend to keep the fun of a singleplayer experience in an MMO setting, make sure I can play the entire game without ever needing to play with others.

The way I play MMO's is solo. I treat it as a singleplayer game that just happens to be going on at the same time as someone else's game in the same room, sort of.

I hate partying up. Nothing breaks the immersion like text bubbles and internet english being spewn around.

If I can complete the game by myself, I will be satisfied.

 

[infinity_turtles]

And no again,
While your choices do affect your character, by the end of the day, you're still going to be in the same faction you started as

That might not necessarily be true. Granted, if you are able to switch, you'll probably only be able to do so at the end of your classes main quest line.

*edit*

You can't switch sides.. Hm.. Good point. Not a big deal, though. You couldn't switch side in WoW, or any other MMO, either.

I'm pro-bioware, but that's just wrong. You can switch "sides" in Everquest, EQ2, and just about everyother game that relies only on faction instead of arbitrary this side vs this side.(EQ2 does do the this side vs this side, but you can still switch sides.

*edit2* Screwed up the quote in my first edit.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

If they intend to keep the fun of a singleplayer experience in an MMO setting, make sure I can play the entire game without ever needing to play with others.

The way I play MMO's is solo. I treat it as a singleplayer game that just happens to be going on at the same time as someone else's game in the same room, sort of.

I don't think this will be happening, but I too am hoping for something along those lines.

Or at least smaller group sizes. I didn't raid much in WoW, but I personally didn't like having to team up with 9, or god forbid 24 other players just to experience the most kickass fights available. I was totally okay with teaming up for regular instances, though. I found those quite enjoyable. No prior experience needed, no elitist pricks to be found(Well, sometimes,) and no elitist pricks needed to clear them. Oh, and nobody saying "Lawl." Ugh, the humanity!

Edit: fixed the faulty math for you mathletes, out there.

 

[Icehearted]

I've been a fan of their games for years, (they sort of filled a void for me that grew when Black Isle died), but BioWare is a company intent on doing what companies do, make money. A pay to play piece of what Blizzard was able to concoct is irresistible to many companies (MMOs are everywhere!!), add EA to that formula and you've got a pretty face plastered on a shark.

Make no mistake, this is an EA owned company, and last I checked they weren't well liked... and justifiably so. I'm not suggesting I hate any company (unless they pull stunts like $7.00 DLC that's pretty hyped up for a mostly mute character and one freakin mission). BioWare wasn't about cash grabs before, but then the rules have changed, especially given that they're dipping a toe into the MMO pond.

I can kind of see where Zeithri is coming from here, though I still think it wiser to reserve final judgment for final products.

 

[JeanLuc761]

As I mentioned in a previous post.
Bioware are being dicks in general as this is something like their 10th post of complaints aimed at a specific genre or company.

Progress is never made unless criticism is let out into the open. Bioware isn't targeting a specific game, a person, nothing beyond the genre of MMO, and even then all they're doing is that the general concept (as has been proven) is flawed.

This isn't an attack on anyone, it's simply noting facts about current MMO titles and how they're hoping to improve upon it.

 

[RatRace123]

So if it works so well as a single player experience... then why the hell can it not be a single player experience? I really want to play this game, but the MMO part doesn't work for me. The monthly fees for a game that I would most likely play for a few months, then move on, then pick back up again. Plus the other people, I hope they change the way we think about MMOs, but still.

 

[carpathic]

Makes sense to say this really. Helps differentiate their brand by defining it as different from others.

Also, I think he is right. One of the big reasons I don't play MMO's.

 

[Jared]

It would be nice if MMOs were more than grimnd but it seems to be in the nature of it all