BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
Sounds fantastic but there was one part of the article that particularly interested me
"...despite resistance saying it was "sacrilege to put interesting bits in an MMO."
Are people seriously saying that want boring, samey grinding, not fun? That's what it implies anyway.
"...despite resistance saying it was "sacrilege to put interesting bits in an MMO."
Are people seriously saying that want boring, samey grinding, not fun? That's what it implies anyway.
That's what I thought too. They've been taking quite a few stabs at every rpg that they didn't make.FargoDog said:
I hate MMO's in general, why did Bioware went through that road, is another billion dollar question... did they really needed the money to sustain themselves, or was it greed ?
And this is why TOR trumps the unholy shit out of Cataclysm, and will be a revolutionary game. My only concern is that the MMO market won't give it much of a chance because they're too hooked on WoW and don't want to invest in another MMO.
I really wish that we could live in a world where multiple MMO's are allowed to co-exist. But subscription fees make that difficult. I guess TOR can steal a chunk of the player base though and they can share it.
I really wish that we could live in a world where multiple MMO's are allowed to co-exist. But subscription fees make that difficult. I guess TOR can steal a chunk of the player base though and they can share it.
I think he missed where any story comes into play in an MMORPG: The clans. The problem with any story they attempt is that it will be hampered by not having any recognizable influence on the game. The same people will be offering the same quests with the same goals, because there is no way to accommodate everyone being at different story points. Clans, however, are made of human beings, who aren't static, and have their own hopes, dreams, rivalries. I've tried WoW in the past, didn't want to pay a monthly subscription for what I felt was an average game. There was one time where I was seriously tempted to join. It didn't coincide with any particular expansion or quest, but with a clan war. I'm talking about the fallout after Serentity Now assaulted the funeral in-game. It polarized much of the game, in a way that alliance/horde never did.
I'm sorry but WoW does not count as a "Story", it's not fun to sit there and read why McNPC#201 wants me to kill 20 Gnolls because its just flavor text, there's nothing behind the story, no substance, maybe you should research how BioWare is doing things differently before you talk about it (every quest is fully voiced for starters)Zeithri said:
I compare this to Guild Wars 2, which will likely release in the same sort of time-frame, and I can't help but be underwhelmed (by SW:TOR). I don't like the art, I'm not confident about the way characters behave during combat (for a start, it looks as though Bounty Hunter flight during skill casting is just that- a graphic, which in all likelihood won't protect you even from adjacent melee characters)...
Some of their design manifesto sounds next gen, but their design *methods* appear to be steeped in status quo. I'm just not as excited as I think I should be- even though I trust Bioware. =\
Guild Wars 2 sounds and looks more like the future of OMG-awesome.
Some of their design manifesto sounds next gen, but their design *methods* appear to be steeped in status quo. I'm just not as excited as I think I should be- even though I trust Bioware. =\
Guild Wars 2 sounds and looks more like the future of OMG-awesome.
Sheesh, when I read the article title I started thinking Bioware was shooting itself in the foot. But this makes sense. Here's to finding the point! Salud!
Well I for one am glad they are thinking this way. Have a go at it Bioware, I hope you do it right.
And for all those crying out in pain already: don't be too alarmed I'm sure they'll throw in some "kill 15 droids and fetch me their left arms" quests so you can enjoy it too.
And for all those crying out in pain already: don't be too alarmed I'm sure they'll throw in some "kill 15 droids and fetch me their left arms" quests so you can enjoy it too.
The difference between the story in, say, WoW, and SW:TOR, is that the story in WoW takes place at the end of the game. And of course, it's all written, there's almost no voice acting to be had, save for the bosses. Blizzard is fully capable of making a great, story driven MMO, but World of Warcraft is far from it. If you want to learn the story of Warcraft, you've gotta read the lore. Warcraft has the lore, there's just not much of it to be found in WoW, and what little there is, takes place in the form of end game raiding.Zeithri said:
SW:TOR's story is present everywhere. It is an ongoing narrative from start to finish. I'm sure there will be menial tasks, such as "Kill 20 Jawas(I hope,)" but I think the majority of the missions will actually be interesting. Since each class has it's own unique story, leveling each class will feel very different. They haven't fully illuminated just how you're going to get to the max level, but from what I've read so far, I don't think there will be that many "Filler missions." Or rather, random chores that you have to do for random people throughout the world, just so you can level up and continue with the story missions. And actually being able to makes choices in these missions is a HUGE step forward for MMOs. I cannot overstate my satisfaction.
Voice acting for everything is also a very big accomplishment. As I mentioned before, if you want to learn the story of Warcraft, you've gotta read the lore. I suppose you could also read the quest text, but honestly, you're probably just going to be disappointed, because most quests(Up until raiding, and even some raid quests) are gonna read like this: "Blah blah blah, I have a problem blah blah. Blah blah blah, go to Stonetalon Mountains, blah blah, kill harpies blah blah and bring their harpy hearts to me. Blah blah, and god speed." So why even bother wasting time reading it? It has nothing to do with anything. It's just some random, interchangeable NPC with a problem.
Regardless of your opinion on this, voice acting makes things more interesting, no matter how boring the subject matter is. If I could listen to an Orc say exactly what I quoted, "Blahs" and all, I'd listen to it, cause it's an Orc! Likewise, if Morgan Freeman narrated "Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants," I'd listen to it, cause it's Morgan Freeman.
I love Blizzard with all my heart, but like 'em or not, you gotta give major props to Bioware for this one. And you can quote me on this; SW:TOR is the future of MMOs.
First of all, I guess the art is hit or miss for most. Some people just automactically assume it's mediocre graphics due to a failure on BioWares side, when they've actually purposefully gone in such a direction. The current engine they're using will be very universal, this is part of WoW's success, it works even on the shittiest of computers, so anyone could pick it up. By fiddling with the settings you can make the game either very high end or very low end.Candidus said:
Personally I like the art style, it's not "pretending" to be real life and I can have fun with it, the spell animations and models/enviroment look great, i'm not crazy about the combat animations so far, but it's not even beta yet so that can be adjusted if the change is needed.
As for the Bounty Hunter's, I understand what you figured you want(for you to be able to engage Bounty Hunter's flight whenever you like). But in practicality this doesn't work for balance, which is what BioWare has to consider, it wouldn't be balanced for Bounty Hunter's to be simply able to jet pack when they like and avoid mostly all Sith/Jedi attacks. That said, Death From Above looks like a great spell imo.
Not to mention Wrath has many many quests involving voice acting, with interesting stories that usually converge into an epic scene. (the new instances and Zul'Drak comes to mind, as does Icecrown, and DK starter Zone, especially when Arthas shows up).Zeithri said:
But ofc, to people who don't play the game it's all just "Kill XX mobs" quests, and nothing else.(Excluding all the cool things like bombing runs, fighting dragons in mid air with your bare hands, killing a giant kraken with harpoons from atop a griffon etc.)
Another problem is continuity. If I kill the Big Bad End Dude, and I have friends in the game who were *not* a part of my conquest, then what happens to their BBED in their story? In most MMOs, nothing happens at all. Their BBED is still waiting for them to reach that part of their quest line. It's a MMO gameplay conceit that we all live with where the story clings to the MMO well enough that we don't mind the obvious cracks.Tenmar said:
While Bioware might craft a story good enough for me to know why I need to collect one hundred widgets to make Grunty the Trader happy, I don't see any solution to this problem. Except a bajillion storylines so everyone gets their own.
Plot twists and treachery in a storyline are completely spoiled by this continuity problem no matter how good the story is.
You're simplifying the situation to better suit your point, just to make it sound bland. Even if you are doing those things on the most basic level, there's a whole plot behind the quest(and questline) you're doing, you listen and communicate with all the characters, you think about the choices you make because they affect your whole characters story from that point on. It immerses you in the game like no MMO has even come close to.Zeithri said:
Why do you so vehemently hate bioware/tor?
I've played WoW for 4 years before I quit about 8 months ago now, those stories are only interesting if you're willing to sit and shift through waves of tedious quest text, and what "voice acting" are you talking about? I can think I maybe 5 major questlines in WoW with voice acting, and that's it. Unless of course you're trying to count bosses talking, which I wouldn't. =\Ghostkai said:
