BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
I played the 5 mans, Boss fights have always been about the only interesting part of wow PVE, well designed or not, the story still falls flat unless you want to read quest text.Ghostkai said:Try the new instances, you'll be pleasently surprisedZing said:
Eh? Thought you quit before 3.3 came out, Forge of Souls/Pit of Saron/Halls of Reflection, you don't need to read anything for that, it's all explained via voice acting. The whole sneaking mission to undermine Arthas with either Jaina(Alliance) or Sylvanas(Horde) was brilliant.Zing said:I played the 5 mans, Boss fights have always been about the only interesting part of wow PVE, well designed or not, the story still falls flat unless you want to read quest text.Ghostkai said:Try the new instances, you'll be pleasently surprisedZing said:
My issue with MMORPGs was no sense of accomplishment. I killed the dragon...right after someone else did and it respawned, and another guy waiting behind me to kill it.
I know it may seem silly, but often games give us the illusion we accomplished something. MMOs tear that down saying "no, silly man, you killed something thousands of others have, it had no bearing on anything".
I know it may seem silly, but often games give us the illusion we accomplished something. MMOs tear that down saying "no, silly man, you killed something thousands of others have, it had no bearing on anything".
Guild Wars 2 will be far better than the Old Republic. They seem to be doing similar things with personal storylines and such to give your character some meaning and depth. Actually giving the games a few role playing elements.
GW2 will have a system that allows player events to influence the world, where say, if you don't defend a villiage it gets burned down.
GW2 will have a system that allows player events to influence the world, where say, if you don't defend a villiage it gets burned down.
I think this is really a debate about what the term "RPG" really means anymore. Lately any game that involves crunching numbers is considered an role-playing game, when you don't play any sort of role and instead are just juggling spreadsheets. Bioware is trying to make a 'true' MMORPG by putting story first.
The way MMOs convey story now is that an NPC will tell you to do a menial task and, as an easily-skipped aside, will give a rambling justification for why you should perform said task. It's very lazy and extremely hard to care about or follow. I heard they upped the storytelling a little with Lich King, but players who have stuck with the game long enough to reach the second expansion obviously don't give a crap about the backstory.
The thing is, WoW could have any setting and any characters, and 90% of the user base would play it exactly the same way. That's not role-playing, it's just an exercise in competitive mathematics.
The way MMOs convey story now is that an NPC will tell you to do a menial task and, as an easily-skipped aside, will give a rambling justification for why you should perform said task. It's very lazy and extremely hard to care about or follow. I heard they upped the storytelling a little with Lich King, but players who have stuck with the game long enough to reach the second expansion obviously don't give a crap about the backstory.
The thing is, WoW could have any setting and any characters, and 90% of the user base would play it exactly the same way. That's not role-playing, it's just an exercise in competitive mathematics.
Answering my question with a question is just a cop out. Answer the question.
I don't love BioWare(I voted for Blizzard in March Madness). But I think they have the right idea with TOR here that is quite revolutionary, yes there other RPGs have just been improvements on Baulder's Gate II with different settings and better graphics. But this has never been put into the MMO genre anywhere near the scale.
Think about this, the weakest part of MMO's is always the story, especially while leveling. Leveling has always been a chore, you want to get past it as quick as you can to get the next level, the next spell etc.
Even though a game like KoTOR used this leveling system, where you upgrade and gain new spells, you didn't exactly care that much, you mostly cared about the ride, the story as you leveled. Bringing that into MMO's means that leveling isn't a chore, it's something you can enjoy(And there a unique story for every class).
I hate bioware because they have cheapened their RPGs like square has.
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MMOs are meant to be time killers, they are not meant to have a point.
Sure you could have better direction/pacing but not much more than that....also no MMO should be more than 8$ a month with under 40$ expansions ......
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RPG for me means details you have stats that you gain via levels or some mechanic and you have a almost literal world to explore basically FFX and FF13 are not real RPGs but FF12 and FF9 are.
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MMOs are meant to be time killers, they are not meant to have a point.
Sure you could have better direction/pacing but not much more than that....also no MMO should be more than 8$ a month with under 40$ expansions ......
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RPG for me means details you have stats that you gain via levels or some mechanic and you have a almost literal world to explore basically FFX and FF13 are not real RPGs but FF12 and FF9 are.
Think they got much more praise than hate about the JRPG thing, since it's what everyone was thinking(unless you're a JRPG fan).Kharloth said:
I quit before 3.3, came back for a bit at the request of others after 3.3, quit again before my month was up.Ghostkai said:Eh? Thought you quit before 3.3 came out, Forge of Souls/Pit of Saron/Halls of Reflection, you don't need to read anything for that, it's all explained via voice acting. The whole sneaking mission to undermine Arthas with either Jaina(Alliance) or Sylvanas(Horde) was brilliant.Zing said:I played the 5 mans, Boss fights have always been about the only interesting part of wow PVE, well designed or not, the story still falls flat unless you want to read quest text.Ghostkai said:Try the new instances, you'll be pleasently surprisedZing said:
I guess we have a different idea on what Brilliant is, tacking voice acting onto Jaina/Sylvanas as they talk open-endly to the instance didn't really immerse me much.
That statement is just ludicrous, in my opinion. How would complaining serve to "make themselves look bigger".Zeithri said:
First of all, if you read the news post, it's clear that this has been extracted from what BioWare said they have been using as somewhat of a business model to improve on what other MMO's have done wrong. It's clear that they didn't use any of the statements in a vindictive matter(like they did with JRPGs), it's just simply fact.
I actually was up until Wrath, it got to convoluted and confusing at that point, I spent many countless hours trolling over the stories on WoWWiki in Vanilla/BC. Just plain reading the stories was sadly more fun then the "quests" that are suppose to live them out. =\Ghostkai said:
ps: won't be replying for a while, gotta go renew my license D: have fun kids.
My color remains skeptical. I enjoy Guild Wars once in a while, but not nearly like I enjoy a good single player RPG. WoW? I played for about 3 years, and quit for two reasons; the community was trash, and like this guy says, the whole thing felt like I was chasing the dragon (grinding and gear... grinding and gear... grinding and gear... grinding and gear... grinding and gear...).
Lots of hype and yet to be fulfilled promises amount to squat until I see what they release to retail. Frankly, I predict ass loads of patches/hotfixes/tweaking/etc... and a lot of the same pulp MMO staples dressed in a fancy new Star Wars themed universe. Think, KotOR, only watered down to a fine filmy substance and spread wide and thin with time-sinks and grinding.
Lots of hype and yet to be fulfilled promises amount to squat until I see what they release to retail. Frankly, I predict ass loads of patches/hotfixes/tweaking/etc... and a lot of the same pulp MMO staples dressed in a fancy new Star Wars themed universe. Think, KotOR, only watered down to a fine filmy substance and spread wide and thin with time-sinks and grinding.