BioWare: MMORPGs Have "No Point"

Feriluce

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Candidus said:
I compare this to Guild Wars 2, which will likely release in the same sort of time-frame, and I can't help but be underwhelmed (by SW:TOR). I don't like the art, I'm not confident about the way characters behave during combat (for a start, it looks as though Bounty Hunter flight during skill casting is just that- a graphic, which in all likelihood won't protect you even from adjacent melee characters)...

Some of their design manifesto sounds next gen, but their design *methods* appear to be steeped in status quo. I'm just not as excited as I think I should be- even though I trust Bioware. =\

Guild Wars 2 sounds and looks more like the future of OMG-awesome.
Way to take the words out of my mouth. I have nothing to say on this topic now!

I just dont see how bioware is gonna pull this off. Even if they make 8 stories (I believe there is one for each class) that is each just as long and engaging as Dragon age its not gonna be good mmo. Playing through all the stories would take 240 hours (8x30). I spent nearly 3500 hours in GW, and I've only played for something like a year total. You do the math.
They might surprise me and make the gameplay really fun, but this is not a game I'll buy untill I've heard the verdict from someone else first.

GW2 on the other hand seems to be doing it right. The combat so far seems like its gonna be just as fun and tactical as it was in GW. The pvp that I've used so many hours on is still there, but in addition to that there will be world pvp as well. Hopefully they'll release some info on their endgame dungeons soon as well so we can judge how the pve side of things is gonna look.
It really looks like that is gonna be an mmo that I will want to keep playing, and it doesn't even require a subscription.
 

JeanLuc761

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Zeithri said:
JeanLuc761 said:
Zeithri said:
BarbaricGoose said:
As I mentioned in a previous post.
Bioware are being dicks in general as this is something like their 10th post of complaints aimed at a specific genre or company.
Progress is never made unless criticism is let out into the open. Bioware isn't targeting a specific game, a person, nothing beyond the genre of MMO, and even then all they're doing is that the general concept (as has been proven) is flawed.

This isn't an attack on anyone, it's simply noting facts about current MMO titles and how they're hoping to improve upon it.
This is funny.
What about the previous complaints them?

"Criticism" as well?
Yep!

They were dead-on with their comment about Final Fantasy 13 and they're dead on here as well. They're not saying these things to hurt other developers, they're not even saying the games are bad, they're simply saying "Here's went wrong and needs to be fixed."
 

tcurt

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Zeithri said:
Well that's where you are wrong.
I didn't care a dwiddly squat about the storyline in KOTOR (with the exception of some parts of the backstory), all I wanted to do was to get a lightsaber to swing around and maximize my character. But that the game didn't want me to do until I had done an entire boring planet of quests which were so uninteresting so by the time I got to the next planet, I just turned the game off in boredom.
While I've enjoyed what I've played in KOTOR okay, I do find I play it like an old fashioned adventure game. Arrive on planet, talk to everyone and find obstacles/objectives, search everything and collect items, talk to everyone again now that I have item, rinse, repeat. Once I have the magic fork, I go back to Mr. Smith with it - even if it make no sense in the "story," because he might say or do something different this time. Maybe I was just trained that way because of where I started in gaming, but all these games will play that way just fine to me. Carrying the magic fork to every story character to see if they will say something new is just grind by another name to me.
 

BarbaricGoose

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Zeithri said:
Of course it'll have subtitles, but going on about "FULLY VOICED!" is about as effective as saying "You'll need thumbs for this". It's a nice thing to have if all, but praising them as the best ones for that is a bit overexcessive. And yes, of course it'll have subtitles luckly.

As for talent. I think they're average.
All their game stories tend to bore me to tears so I honestly don't see the big fuzz about it. Thousands of pointless sidequests with characters who can't handle themselves..
I'm not sure what you mean "praising them as the best ones for that." you mean Bioware the company, or SWTOR, what? No one said this game would be great just because of the voice acting. But it'll help. And really, it's a fully voice acted MMO. I'm not sure you're fully grasping just how massive that is. And you're saying that an ad campaign about just that would as effective as saying "You'll need thumbs to play this?" I hope you're joking... It's difficult for me to formulate an argument against a statement that ridiculous. A fully voiced MMO has never been done before, not even talked about. It's a new thing.

You simply cannot compare an ad campaign centered around needing thumbs to play to a fully voice acted MMO. There are NO similarities between those two items.

Zeithri said:
No, when I read about it the first time, I was hyped because I saw the potential character development on Roleplaying servers for people who'd start out as Sith but joining the Jedi later on. But they choose not to have this. So what do we get instead? We get a choice system where you're either evil or evil-eer or good and good-er. And what effects will these have? Probably nothing more than "You cannot shop with me" or "Praise the Force that you are here".

So therefore, the whole point of moral choices are pointless because no matte how near the dark side or light side you get, it'll ultimatically not have any real effect since you'll still belong to the faction you started as.
Again, you are oversimplifying it. You can make anything sound appealing if you try. That certainly sounds very unappealing. It's not as black and white as "Evil and EvilER" or "Good and GoodER." There's different shades of evil, and shades of good. I believe it'll be reminiscent of the D&D system. Chaotic, neutral, and lawful good/evil/neutral. Not sure if you can be neutral. Don't remember.

For more info on this system, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_%28Dungeons_&_Dragons%29

Zeithri said:
As I mentioned in a previous post.
Bioware are being dicks in general as this is something like their 10th post of complaints aimed at a specific genre or company.
As someone mentioned before, they're not just blatantly insulting other companies, or games. They're making a point, and to do that, it's nice to have some sort of comparison. If I wanted to make point about how most FPS games don't have super interesting and deep characters, I'd probably use Modern Warfare as an example. Not because I don't like it, but because almost everyone's played it.

Candidus said:
I compare this to Guild Wars 2, which will likely release in the same sort of time-frame, and I can't help but be underwhelmed (by SW:TOR). I don't like the art, I'm not confident about the way characters behave during combat (for a start, it looks as though Bounty Hunter flight during skill casting is just that- a graphic, which in all likelihood won't protect you even from adjacent melee characters)..
Seeing as how they've got about another year in development, I wouldn't judge 'em too harshly for that. Frankly, though, it doesn't bother me. Depending on how long the skill lasts, that could be quite lame in PvP. Like a pally's bubble, except instead of being able to hearth, you deal tons of damage.

And just out of curiosity, where'd you come by this bit of information?
 

Prophetic Heresy

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Really? It seems this game isn't going to be out over a full year and we're going to be hearing about it every week. I'm going to go pray to Science to help me avoid getting sick of this game.

<3 Republic Trooper
 

oppp7

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Wait, MMOs were originally supposed to be about singleplayer? That doesn't sound accurate...
 

CKalvin

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Sep 21, 2009
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Hmmmm.....

a mmorpg with a thoroughly immersive story can not work. Simple as that, because the story is based around the players which is a shifting changing entity, not something that can be accurately measured and analysed to create a story for.

but if anyone can make it worth playing, Bioware can

ps kotor<3
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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As much as I love BioWare, I remain skeptical about the narrative potential in a MMORPG. Wait and see...
 

ZippyDSMlee

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oppp7 said:
Wait, MMOs were originally supposed to be about singleplayer? That doesn't sound accurate...
well if they focused on a single balanced and fun exp then MMOs would not be so bland and generic...... MMOs try to focus on a lose SP exp midly group EXP better PvP exp and over all grind grind grind so we make more money exp....
 

BarbaricGoose

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CKalvin said:
Simple as that, because the story is based around the players which is a shifting changing entity, not something that can be accurately measured and analysed to create a story for
Eh... what? Can you elaborate?

Maybe I didn't fully understand that, but the story is based around you and NPCs. Not you and every other player in the game. You can group for missions, if you'd like, but that's optional. The NPCs will not "Shift" or "Change" and unless you turn into the hulk, or something, neither will you.

The story is preset. Every class has a unique one. There will be no unintentional shifting or changing.
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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digotw said:
danpascooch said:
The more news that is released, the better this sounds.

This could catapult Bioware to godlike status.
Yeah, i was pretty afraid this game was going to turn into a "WOW-like" end game content rush.
Well, it's hard to say at this point that it won't, gotta have something for people who hit the level cap.

Still, the potential here is unbelievable.
 

Talvrae

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Dec 8, 2009
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No argument on that, they have a point... trought Age of Conan had somehwat a made a stap in the right direction... too bad it stopped at one step lol... Can't wait for SW:tOR
 

ArmorArmadillo

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A good philosophy (whether or not it actually works in the end). When I played WoW, I felt like I really enjoyed levelling my first characters awkwardly through quests and a variety of locations, actually doing some good for the tiny NPCs I did stuff for and with actual growth and change...then when I got to endgame content it became Adventures in Spreadsheets and Getting Yelled At, and every raid was an exercise in pointless grinding of the same boss monsters to get equipment to do it all over again.
 

Seventh Actuality

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This is worrying. It sounds like they're going to go down the same stupid route at Aion and AoC by trying to put a single player story where you're the fucking chosen one into a MMO populated by thousands.

An MMORPG is supposed to be different to a regular RPG that happens to have a lot of dudes running around in it. It's not about the story in an MMO, it's about the stories, the creation of an interesting world for players to run around in. I can understand why that might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's the only way to do a characterful MMORPG that embraces the genre's features rather than awkwardly trying to draw the player's attention from them.