Black Myth: Wukong gameplay; I don't get the hype?
- Thread starter FakeSympathy
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Quality cause I was playing on the 4K tv. If I play on the monitor I use for fighters I may try balanced but so far so good.
I have beaten 13 bosses now. I still don't understand the combat.
Here are some women in the game that doesn't have any. 
That's more women than the original story has, that one just had 2, and one of them was a sexy scorpion.
So I have been following some discussion forums and boards regarding combat, and Im starting to see one particular issue that is being debated; There is no animation canceling via dodge button.
Specifically, during light attack combos, you can dodge before third hit or finisher; after that you are committed to that last hit or being risked to being hit. There is a skill that let’s you dodge while pulling off combo, but it’s not a full-fledged animation canceling.
Considering this is a soulslike, where dodge timing is crucial, this is a head scratcher for me. On one hand, I kinda have to agree with defenders on how players need to adapt to this mechanic (aka “skill issues”, “gut gud”). But on the other hand, for those who played soulslike games or action combat games it goes against the instincts that they built over the years.
It’s probably one of the few things that makes combat feel so weird
Specifically, during light attack combos, you can dodge before third hit or finisher; after that you are committed to that last hit or being risked to being hit. There is a skill that let’s you dodge while pulling off combo, but it’s not a full-fledged animation canceling.
Considering this is a soulslike, where dodge timing is crucial, this is a head scratcher for me. On one hand, I kinda have to agree with defenders on how players need to adapt to this mechanic (aka “skill issues”, “gut gud”). But on the other hand, for those who played soulslike games or action combat games it goes against the instincts that they built over the years.
It’s probably one of the few things that makes combat feel so weird
- Feb 7, 2011
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So is it better than the korean ass game whose name I've already forgotten? (No seriously, I don't remember the name of the game at all. I remember the main character is named Eve but that's all I've got, it's literally gone from my mind, this isn't a joke or a jab at the game.)
Stellar Blade. Yes, Black Myth is better than Stellar Blade. Going by word of mouth.
- Feb 7, 2011
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So to clarify this, there's two distinct moves that transpire by mashing the light attack button, there's the light attack combo, and then there's the light finisher, you have things modifying either of those and giving them unique properties, so thinking of them as distinct is very useful.
The light attack combo in particular lets you cancel into dodges and focus-meter moves, and in the balanced stance your focus move has invuln frames like rolls do, and if procced then the entire focus attack and its followups become fully invuln.
The light finisher is a thing you do when you lack sufficient focus to do a focus move, and typically most things will smack you out of your combo before you even GET to it. But like in Souls games, you often want to just do a few hits and roll, instead of doing your weapons full 4-5 hit string to completion, know what I mean?
The difference is that the light attack combo contains multiple multihit attacks that are cancellable, so the effective approach here is to tap an attack, wait to react with a roll/focus hit while the animation plays, and then tap the next light attack. It's intentional single presses, not mashing. So you just avoid having to worry about the light attack finisher having no cancellable frames by simply not using the light attack finisher in the first place. It's not like you need to use it for any particular reason, since the focus moves do the highest damage, and the light attack combo gives you tons of focus on top of the one you get from rolling and what have you.
And the game generally doesn't feel like souls at all outside of bloodborne cause there's just no bocking at all at any point. Closest thing is the bo twirl that deflects only projectiles and drains your stamina very fast. And you have way way way more tools at your disposal. You can legit freeze enemies in place and wail on them, even bosses. And I just unlocked an upgrade to this skill that lets you parry freeze (your freeze spell has invuln frames during its very fast startup) which freezes enemies for way longer than usual and lowers their defense too.
And I'm only in the middle of chapter 2.
Do you like mythical folklore and a super deep dive in chinese fantasy more than you do a scifi setting and futuristic dystopian cyberpunk? Honestly, both games are excellent. Stellar blade is a bit more open world and has more architecture and navigation and things like climbing and swimming, it has more verticality. While Wukong has a more complex and intricate combat system at the cost of being significantly more linear.
I think Wukong is a little less penetrable, cause it has this poetic air that permeates it, and if you're not familiar with the setting you will be very lost. (you have monkeys turning into cicadas and rat kings and a bear that is also the wind and all sorts of stuff like that) whereas stellar blade is pretty straightforward in what the actual plot is, but that's about it. Play em both.
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So I am nearing the end of Chapter 2, and the difficulty has really ramped up but not in a good way.
Enemies are starting to really abuse the problems I was seeing in the early game combat in which the speed of the enemy attacks was far too fast in relation to the slow pace of your heavy attacks.
So the basic idea in combat for the player is to use your light attack to build combo points and then to spend those combo points on a finisher, or even a chain of finishers if you have a stack of points. The player's animations are fine, but the problem comes with enemy attack speed and the very slow pace in which your finishers come out. Bosses leap around, jump, dart, zip, all over the fucking place, and it makes hitting them with light attacks difficult which is already bad enough. But it makes hitting them with your finisher damn near impossible.
This became noticable for me with the Tiger boss in the blood pool that has been in the trailers. This boss has a basic one-two combo, that he may or may not follow up with an aoe spin kick that sends him flying to the other side of the arena. He is also the boss where bosses with ranged attacks really begins to take off, which is stupid because you have no ranged attack so what the fuck is that about?
Moreso with the Tiger boss, it seemed to me like every combo he did finished with him either being immune to damage or leaping away. Which was frustrating because even once I learned his patterns, his avoidance of my abilities and attacks made it a matter of luck as to whether I could hit him or not.
Once he was beaten I figured okay just a hard fight, whatever, but every boss after him has been the same shit. The next fucker is on a bridge that can one shot you because it's the first time you can fall off the arena or get knocked off by the enemy. And this dudes combos are 7-8-9-even 10 hit strings. I was sitting there in complete confusion because I swear there must be a mechanic or leveling progression that I'm fucking missing. It's Elden Ring flashback where the enemies attack so much that you are never going to dodge everything, either because you don't have the stamina or you the attack string timing means you cannot chain two dodges fast enough to avoid all the hits.
If you asked me yesterday when I was through the first 15 bosses, I would have said the game isn't that hard. It's challenging but not that hard. Today, I think the bosses have hit a wall of just incredibly poor design somewhere. Honestly I think the bosses are cool, the moves are cool, but some combination of the player's toolkit and the core game mechanics aren't working together with the boss design. I really can't put a finger on it, but when I beat bosses now it feels like I just got lucky not that I finally outplayed the boss.
As for comparing this game to Stellar Blade, I think in terms of level design, graphics, and story Wukong is far better. Combat wise, I think Steller Blade is a tigher more focused and better executed combat system, even if I didn't enjoy it much either.
Enemies are starting to really abuse the problems I was seeing in the early game combat in which the speed of the enemy attacks was far too fast in relation to the slow pace of your heavy attacks.
So the basic idea in combat for the player is to use your light attack to build combo points and then to spend those combo points on a finisher, or even a chain of finishers if you have a stack of points. The player's animations are fine, but the problem comes with enemy attack speed and the very slow pace in which your finishers come out. Bosses leap around, jump, dart, zip, all over the fucking place, and it makes hitting them with light attacks difficult which is already bad enough. But it makes hitting them with your finisher damn near impossible.
This became noticable for me with the Tiger boss in the blood pool that has been in the trailers. This boss has a basic one-two combo, that he may or may not follow up with an aoe spin kick that sends him flying to the other side of the arena. He is also the boss where bosses with ranged attacks really begins to take off, which is stupid because you have no ranged attack so what the fuck is that about?
Moreso with the Tiger boss, it seemed to me like every combo he did finished with him either being immune to damage or leaping away. Which was frustrating because even once I learned his patterns, his avoidance of my abilities and attacks made it a matter of luck as to whether I could hit him or not.
Once he was beaten I figured okay just a hard fight, whatever, but every boss after him has been the same shit. The next fucker is on a bridge that can one shot you because it's the first time you can fall off the arena or get knocked off by the enemy. And this dudes combos are 7-8-9-even 10 hit strings. I was sitting there in complete confusion because I swear there must be a mechanic or leveling progression that I'm fucking missing. It's Elden Ring flashback where the enemies attack so much that you are never going to dodge everything, either because you don't have the stamina or you the attack string timing means you cannot chain two dodges fast enough to avoid all the hits.
If you asked me yesterday when I was through the first 15 bosses, I would have said the game isn't that hard. It's challenging but not that hard. Today, I think the bosses have hit a wall of just incredibly poor design somewhere. Honestly I think the bosses are cool, the moves are cool, but some combination of the player's toolkit and the core game mechanics aren't working together with the boss design. I really can't put a finger on it, but when I beat bosses now it feels like I just got lucky not that I finally outplayed the boss.
As for comparing this game to Stellar Blade, I think in terms of level design, graphics, and story Wukong is far better. Combat wise, I think Steller Blade is a tigher more focused and better executed combat system, even if I didn't enjoy it much either.
Surprised to learn this game is only $60 dollars, it doesn't look like it. Is it a short one or something?
Nah it's 100gigs on ps5 which is FFVIIR tier content lol, I expect 50+ hours easy. I'm 15ish hours in and just beat chapter 2.
Outside of the third stance, you're not meant to use the solo heavy attacks against bosses outside of when you've frozen them with the immobilize spell or when they are clearly doing something very slow and obvious. Your focus points wanna go to the varied combination skills of the first and third stance that see through your opponent's attacks.
Basically, the idea is you use varied combinations to attack through your opponent's attacks and stagger them and then do more light attacks, not wait until their entire hit sequence has finished before attacking. Also when you do a perfect dodge there's a bit of slowdown so you can get a couple hits in before dodging again.
I just beat chapter 2 and the final chapter boss was a lot harder than the tiger, the tiger just had high damage, the final boss is tricky too.
Though I somehow entirely missed whatever bridge boss you're talking about, maybe it's one of those optional ones, some of those are harder than normal and you're meant to come back to them later, like that monk with the big head in chapter 1 who does this huge energy wave move that goes full screen instantly. When you first encounter him you're way too low level.
This is the first normal chinese game that's not some form of gacha or a derivative half rate copy of something someone else made that's been blatantly copied and looks cheap. It makes sense that chinese people would embrace it warmly, and it helps that it's a really fun game too lol. Honestly I'm surprised it took them that long to put out just a normal game.
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To be fair while his hit string was fucking bullshit, he had very little hp. I unloaded on him twice with the freeze and he died.
Yeah freeze is so good. You upgrade the evanescence skill with it? It lets you sit until your stamina fills up and still do a full combo lol.
Made a quick cash off of selling some stuff, and decided to get this game, at a bit of discount from a third-party vendor.
And after spending a few hours myself and completing the first chapter, I do think this is a solid game. One gripe I have have with this game is that shader/cache or whatever the data the game needs to load in gets loaded in late, giving me choppy audios and stuttering cutscenes. It happens EVERY TIME I hit continue from the main menu, or when I load in a new chapter. It's a shame, because some of these cutscenes look epic and I can't stand audio being out of sync and cutscenes freezing. Going in-game doesn't really help either, because it freezes/stutters there as well!
Thankfully it only lasts first few min after I start the game. So I'm hoping for a patch soon.
As for the combat, while I do think it's fine, I think they should've not had stamina management at all or not have combo-building-focus mechanic. It feels really counter-intuiative. So you want the player to attack the enemies with the flurry of light attacks, but continuing to to attack consumes stamina and you have to wait to reload? People who are more used to the likes of DMC or Arkham games will struggle because they can't keep the attacks and dodges going due to limited stamina, and people who are used to soulsborne won't take the full advantage of building up a combo because they are more used to hitting them a few times and backing out.
And after spending a few hours myself and completing the first chapter, I do think this is a solid game. One gripe I have have with this game is that shader/cache or whatever the data the game needs to load in gets loaded in late, giving me choppy audios and stuttering cutscenes. It happens EVERY TIME I hit continue from the main menu, or when I load in a new chapter. It's a shame, because some of these cutscenes look epic and I can't stand audio being out of sync and cutscenes freezing. Going in-game doesn't really help either, because it freezes/stutters there as well!
Thankfully it only lasts first few min after I start the game. So I'm hoping for a patch soon.
As for the combat, while I do think it's fine, I think they should've not had stamina management at all or not have combo-building-focus mechanic. It feels really counter-intuiative. So you want the player to attack the enemies with the flurry of light attacks, but continuing to to attack consumes stamina and you have to wait to reload? People who are more used to the likes of DMC or Arkham games will struggle because they can't keep the attacks and dodges going due to limited stamina, and people who are used to soulsborne won't take the full advantage of building up a combo because they are more used to hitting them a few times and backing out.
