Black Ops Swastika Emblems Will Earn Xbox Live Ban

[JDKJ]

Apparently some people are being willfully ignorant of the swastika's current symbolism. It symbolizes Nazi germany, white supremacy and racial hatred. That's what it means now. It doesn't matter what obscure or ancient group used it here or there, NOW it means what Nazis and white power assholes turned it into.

Wait.. what? Ancient and obscure? Right. Yes. You're totally correct. Nothing exists beyond the narrow western interpretations you are aware of. Good job. Have a banana.

The modern swastika is a hate symbol. We of course can't pass judgement on anyone that used it prior to the Nazis, but now it's a hate symbol. When people use it in an online game, they are not making a statement about the shifting perceptions of society, they are being assholes. They're toeing the line and pushing the limits. It's like seeing a "keep off the grass" sign and running out onto the grass even though there's nothing on the other side. It's not noble, it's seeing how far you can push it. Well now, on this game, the line's been drawn. It's better they ban it than be all wishy-washy about because of some pre-WW2 use of the symbol that half the players are barely aware of.

There are currently eight pages of discussion about this now. Just on this one story. Clearly the symbol is controversial, so I see no reason to allow it to remain. We can wax philosophic on forums all day, but people trying to run this game have a job to do.

In all fairness, I think you are taking a very narrow and Western-driven view of the possible symbolism behind a swastika-like depiction. Its use isn't at all ancient or obscure or necessarily always that of a hate symbol. As has been pointed out here before, its use in numerous Asian cultures is quite current, prevalent, and bears no association at all with hate of any kind. As one poster has pointed out, the packaging of his favorite brand of noodles is festooned with swastika-like symbols. Are we to conclude that those noodles are Nazi, Jew-hating, Aryan-supremist noodles?

I think you're also taking an absolutist view of its use online as necessarily indicating assholery in all cases. But it could well be just as possible that some online gamers who would choose to employ a swastika-like symbol aren't intent on pushing any envelopes or promoting hate or trolling, etc. They could just as easily be using it as symbolic of any one of the purely benign things it represents in Asian cultures. And you're not equipped in any way that I can discern to definitively say that they aren't using it in an entirely benign manner. At best, you're conjecturing and speculating.

Now, I don't say any of this in support of or opposition to Xbox's decision to ban its use. That's their prerogative. Rather, I say all of this to say that your view is, in my opinion, misinformed, poorly supported, and terribly one-sided.

 

[Poponen]

Let me just clarify. The Finnish Air Force did use that swastika as a symbol before and during the World war 2. After the war it was changed. It's this one now: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Suomen_Ilmavoimien_tunnus.svg

"The Finnish Air Force continues to use a swastika as their emblem, originally introduced in 1918. (Here lies long and irrelevant text.)"

Though that is from Wikipidea, so a fat 13 year old from Texas my be pulling my leg.

I'd say that that article is, just a bit, wrong. I have checked other sources than wikipedia now, and it seems that the swastika was taken back in 1957, though I've never seen it anywhere. I think that SpiderJerusalem is closer to the truth than me.

The flag exists only in records, the official logo is used in almost every aspect with the eagle flag, that is clearly displayed on the bottom of the page, used for all other purposes.

 

[Electrogecko]

On one hand, anybody that makes their emblem a swastika is more than likely looking to provoke people, whether they defend the symbol historically or not. On the other hand, the game is rated M and there are probably much worse things that can be portrayed with the feature.

 

[Humble85]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

Well, with that historical background, I am pretty sure it was the Nazis fault. With what they did, they could have painted that Hello Kitty! - thing on their flags and it would be an eternal sign of evil.
But I think we can be thankful for what the Swastika does for us: It lets us identify assholes and idiots from miles away!

 

[Delusibeta]

Ultimately, I can't help but feel they're nannying the user base of an M game. I understand their point, but honestly there's bigger fish to fry, such as permabanning known hackers.

 

[Humble85]

Another interesting censor-ship thing about Black Ops was the fact that I seriously could not name one of my custom classes "Assault," because it apparently contained "profanity."
SERIOUSLY????

WTF, youre right! That IS ridiculous. I`d like to here their reasoning behind that...

 

[CoL0sS]

I have to admit first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions word "swastika" are Nazis and then Buddhist symbol. However I don't find it offensive . Would it be wrong of me if I said ppl should just move on? Yes you should forgive but not forget, but seriously does dwelling on it help anyone? Nazism, racism, and violating people rights in any way should be condemned, hell it should be rooted out. We all know that people tend to jump to conclusions, and using swastika as an emblem is provocative despite your intentions. Give ppl ability to put anything on their emblems and of course they're gonna misuse it. It surprises me that ppl can still take anything attention seeking individuals do on internet seriously; much less let it affect them in any way.

 

[xanovich]

Hmm, swastika is being banned, but what about... emm... SS, for example? That isn't offending at all, isn't it?

All this is so... wrong!

 

[XT inc]

I can understand why, I just don't think it should be a problem in a M rated game, that has nazi's in it.

 

[JDKJ]

I have to admit first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions word "swastika" are Nazis and then Buddhist symbol. However I don't find it offensive . Would it be wrong of me if I said ppl should just move on? Yes you should forgive but not forget, but seriously does dwelling on it help anyone? Nazism, racism, and violating people rights in any way should be condemned, hell it should be rooted out. We all know that people tend to jump to conclusions, and using swastika as an emblem is provocative despite your intentions. Give ppl ability to put anything on their emblems and of course they're gonna misuse it. It surprises me that ppl can still take anything attention seeking individuals do on internet seriously; much less let it affect them in any way.

If "using [a] swastika as an emblem is provocative despite [the user's] intentions," then it would seem to me that the root of that problem lies not with the user but, rather, with those who would be provoked. If so, then it would seem to me that the solution lies not on the user's side of the equation but, rather, on the side of the provoked.

Xbox's decision to ban the user and ignore the provoked is a lot like America's War on Drugs. Target the drug-producing countries outside of America and ignore the demand for drugs inside of America. That strategy hasn't worked very well, I don't think.

 

[UberNoodle]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

I disagree with your retort, snappy and symetrical it may be. The symbol means what it means today, and that's how it's taken. Like the article said, XBL is not the place to argue the semantics of this shape. Sure, it derives from runes. And yes, it is also a very important symbol throughout Asia. The thing is, I doubt that even half of the funsters who'd use the symbol on XBL would do so for the sake of runic, Hindu or Buddhist symbology.

 

[JDKJ]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

I disagree with your retort, snappy and symetrical it may be. The symbol means what it means today, and that's how it's taken. Like the article said, XBL is not the place to argue the semantics of this shape. Sure, it derives from runes. And yes, it is also a very important symbol throughout Asia. The thing is, I doubt that even half of the funsters who'd use the symbol on XBL would do so for the sake of runic, Hindu or Buddhist symbology.

Emphasis on your word "doubt." Which I assume is another way of saying you don't know that as any kind of certainty beyond all dispute.

 

[UberNoodle]

I have to admit first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions word "swastika" are Nazis and then Buddhist symbol. However I don't find it offensive . Would it be wrong of me if I said ppl should just move on? Yes you should forgive but not forget, but seriously does dwelling on it help anyone? Nazism, racism, and violating people rights in any way should be condemned, hell it should be rooted out. We all know that people tend to jump to conclusions, and using swastika as an emblem is provocative despite your intentions. Give ppl ability to put anything on their emblems and of course they're gonna misuse it. It surprises me that ppl can still take anything attention seeking individuals do on internet seriously; much less let it affect them in any way.

If "using [a] swastika as an emblem is provocative despite [the user's] intentions," then it would seem to me that the root of that problem lies not with the user but, rather, with those who would be provoked. If so, then it would seem to me that the solution lies not on the user's side of the equation but, rather, on the side of the provoked.

Xbox's decision to ban the user and ignore the provoked is a lot like America's War on Drugs. Target the drug-producing countries outside of America and ignore the demand for drugs inside of America. That strategy hasn't worked very well, I don't think.

But then you promote a society where poeple don't give a sh!t about others' feelings or well-being simply because it's "your problem". Western culture has been taking a steady dive towards this self-centred attitude for a long time. The idea is that people have the right to do what they want. Fair enough, and you do. However people also have the right not be confronted if they don't wish to be. It isn't any of our right to dictate to others what they should and shouldn't be upset about. If they are, then they no doubt have good reason. Forcing such things upon them and then telling blaming them for being offended (while legitimising the action with trite assertions of pesonal freedom), is against human decency. XBL does constitute a public space, and like any other, common courtesy should be observed.

 

[saruman31]

Might as well ban the Cross or the Crescent Moon while your at it. Or perhaps ban jewish players so that you cant kill them in game? Yes, its that ridiculous.

 

[gphjr14]

To be fair, the Nazis only committed one of the most heinous crimes in recorded human history.

really? I would say thee most notorious, I mean how many people were killed due to Alexander and his army? what about Stalin?

Stalin for the most part killed his own people so did Mao and several dictators today. But Hitler and the Nazi party oversaw the systematic persecution, collection, and attempted eradication of an entire race. Not for political difference or any crimes other than the fact they were a specific race or an "undesirable."

The swastika is an ancient symbol but the tilting at an angle and putting it on a white and red background makes it clear they were thinking of Nazism when they made it. I can see how it'd be offensive and I just find it annoying and unimaginative, but I don't think an insta ban is that necessary could just put a lock on their layers to like 3 so they couldn't make anything that ornate.

 

[UberNoodle]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

I disagree with your retort, snappy and symetrical it may be. The symbol means what it means today, and that's how it's taken. Like the article said, XBL is not the place to argue the semantics of this shape. Sure, it derives from runes. And yes, it is also a very important symbol throughout Asia. The thing is, I doubt that even half of the funsters who'd use the symbol on XBL would do so for the sake of runic, Hindu or Buddhist symbology.

Emphasis on your word "doubt." Which I assume is another way of saying you don't know that as any kind of certainty beyond all dispute.

And what then is your point? Who are you to tell me, the writer, of how much emphasis was or wasn't lacking in my words? You've quoted me, yet somehow seem to think you've one upped me on something?

Now, unless you have something other than the complete obvious to share, what was the point of your message? That I can't prove my last statement above and beyond dispute? Well I never tried to, hence my use of the word "doubt", which you've clearly noticed. The word means what it does, and that's why I used it.

So, do have any empiracal findings to share, or what?

 

[Soods]

This is just terrible censorship, I thought we were living in 21st century. Btw is the "double lightning insignia" (schutzstaffel) allowed?

 

[JDKJ]

I have to admit first thing that comes to my mind when someone mentions word "swastika" are Nazis and then Buddhist symbol. However I don't find it offensive . Would it be wrong of me if I said ppl should just move on? Yes you should forgive but not forget, but seriously does dwelling on it help anyone? Nazism, racism, and violating people rights in any way should be condemned, hell it should be rooted out. We all know that people tend to jump to conclusions, and using swastika as an emblem is provocative despite your intentions. Give ppl ability to put anything on their emblems and of course they're gonna misuse it. It surprises me that ppl can still take anything attention seeking individuals do on internet seriously; much less let it affect them in any way.

If "using [a] swastika as an emblem is provocative despite [the user's] intentions," then it would seem to me that the root of that problem lies not with the user but, rather, with those who would be provoked. If so, then it would seem to me that the solution lies not on the user's side of the equation but, rather, on the side of the provoked.

Xbox's decision to ban the user and ignore the provoked is a lot like America's War on Drugs. Target the drug-producing countries outside of America and ignore the demand for drugs inside of America. That strategy hasn't worked very well, I don't think.

But then you promote a society where poeple don't give a sh!t about others' feelings or well-being simply because it's "your problem". Western culture has been taking a steady dive towards this self-centred attitude for a long time. The idea is that people have the right to do what they want. Fair enough, and you do. However people also have the right not be confronted if they don't wish to be. It isn't any of our right to dictate to others what they should and shouldn't be upset about. If they are, then they no doubt have good reason. Forcing such things upon them and then telling blaming them for being offended (while legitimising the action with trite assertions of pesonal freedom), is against human decency. XBL does constitute a public space, and like any other, common courtesy should be observed.

"If they are, then they no doubt have good reason."

If being a hyper-sensitive whiner is what you call a "good reason" to be upset, then you've got a point. But if that's the case, then I suspect we may need to go far beyond the mere banning of swastikas in order to ensure that the hyper-sensitive whiners of the world aren't upset. I suspect that the list of things likely to upset them is long. Very long.

And while we're at it and if we're taking requests, can we ban the whinings of hyper-sensitive whiners? There's nothing that upsets me more than the whinings of hyper-sensitive whiners. I'd like to exercise my "right not be confronted [by their whinings] if don't wish to be."

 

[Cartman2nd]

really? I would say thee most notorious, I mean how many people were killed due to Alexander and his army? what about Stalin?

Please explain how either of those events downplays the murder of millions.
And please don't try to say "they killed more", because that changes absolutely nothing.

It's not about saying the Holocaust wasn't bad, it's just that people seem to forget what cruel bastards Stalin and Alexander "the Great" were. They should ban hammer and sickle as well following this logic, but the news is only about the swastika.

And raise your hand if you called this the moment they announced a "create your own symbol" feature.

*raises hand*

 

[UberNoodle]

This is just terrible censorship, I thought we were living in 21st century. Btw is the "double lightning insignia" (schutzstaffel) allowed?

It's not "terrible censorship" because XBL isn't the outside world. It is a controlled environment and it has particular rules. I really don't see the problem. No one is stopping you from using the symbol in your life outside of XBL. Actually, living inthe 21st Century, I would have hoped that people would have more empathy for others, instead of growing more self-centred.