Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

[Boba Frag]

I made a LOT of Stringer Bell from The Wire jokes about Thor in the run up to see the film, purely because Idris Elba has incredible presence and charisma on screen, be it tv or film.
I would find it very amusing if Jimmy McNulty came riding up on a chariot piss drunk, with a visibly drunk Bunk Moreland in tow, naturally sporting a sword and drinking horn!

If I could level one criticism at Thor it would be that Idris Elba wasn't in it enough, and that there was little need to augment his naturally rich and powerful voice.

To the issue of the racial abuse that has been slung at the casting choice, I think there would be a problem if we were dealing with a movie dealing with actual Scandanavians and the ancient Norse gods.

We are not dealing with that in Thor.
Jack Kirby, one of Thor's developers and the man who designed the character, was a really big fan of the literary spin of gods as hyper advanced beings where science is so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic. This was something advanced by Arthur C. Clarke, and is actually referenced in the movie by Jane Foster.

This is the interpretation of Thor that Brannagh's film seems to be following quite closely as the sci-fi elements, not fantastical, are what will help tie Thor into the larger Marvel Universe we are witnessing on screen.

I was as surprised as anyone by the casting choice, but being a huge fan of Elba's work- he dominates the screen, even without the gleaming armour and luminescent eyes- I can honestly say I'm delighted he was in the picture.

Seeing as how the Asgard of the film is very much a stellar capital of space faring race, then it's absolute nonsense to object to the casting choice as being from what's essentially an alien race, there is no reason why Asgardians cannot share the same genetic diversity as humans in skin colour, appearance etc.

There seems to be no such fuss made over Hogun the Grim, although to be fair the character in the comics is actually Asian/Mongolian in appearance.

 

[Weskerbot3000]

proof that people are fuckheads, they will ***** about ANYTHING

 

[Jake0fTrades]

I'm no expert or anything, but I don't think anyone of direct Nordic descent was black, that'd be like having Bruce Willis play Malcolm X.

I'm sure this guy does a great job, but I can understand where these critics are coming from.

Except Malcolm X was a real person. Heimdall? Not so much.

And as for the issue of decent, well, that's up for debate. I can trace my family tree back to the Netherlands to around the 1500s, and I'm pretty obviously black, so who's to say that some Viking didn't have his way with an African and their descendant pops up in the UK generations later?

Again, I'm not an expert. But my point is, it's not about preference--which would make someone racist--it's about staying true to the facts.

 

[Poofs]

It is a sad day when wanting something to stay true to it's source material is considered 'racist'

 

[Technicka]

It is a sad day when wanting something to stay true to it's source material is considered 'racist'

Considering that no waves were made when the news of an Asian was cast in a similar role, it raises a big red flag about what the true motivation is. Not to mention all the dozens of other inaccuracies between the movie and comics (or actual Norse mythology).

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

There are ethnographic differences as well. Sure, you're not going to be able to tell much from someone's femur, but good ethnologists can tell you from your facial structure where your ancestors likely came from. There are certain facial structures that are Norse, and certain facial structures that are Briton, etc. etc.

However, you're wrong to say that it's absolute and not a continuum. While Antony Hopkins might not have the traditional Norse facial structure, a black skinned person would very obviously be seen as more foreign than a Briton. You're committing to a perfectionist fallacy: if it isn't a perfect fit then it's no different than the worst fit.

If this were a faithful rendition of Norse mythology then it would just be inaccurate to have a black guy play one of their gods. Sure to a lesser degree it's also inaccurate for a non Nordic white person to play the part, but to have a black guy playing the role would almost be as much as an anachronism as the characters using iPhones. It would just take people out of the movie. Sure, Anthony Hopkins is a great actor, but even if he was the greatest actor in the world I wouldn't watch a role where he plays a woman, I just can't suspend disbelief.

I agree that it's anachronistic to Norse mythology - 99% of the ancient Norse were probably not even aware that dark skin is a possibility. My opinion though is more that if we say:
A) the Norse gods in our movie are actually aliens with advanced technology,
B) they're played by British actors with British accents,
C) Odin's a maker of peace vs. a god of war,
D) Thor has a giant suit of armor called "Destroyer"
and so on, it's not really a significant deviation from the source material in the light of all that to cast Heimdall as black, because we are clearly not trying to portray the Norse gods as the Norse would have seen them.

Oh, I completely agree. ESPECIALLY with C, I don't think it's really even Norse mythology at that point. It's one thing to change small things but they've changed what's really the essential normative characteristic of Norse mythology. It's like having a movie about Jesus where he acts like Duke Nukem. I just want to be clear that a true rendition of Norse mythology wouldn't have black gods, and it isn't racist to say so, that's just the reasonable expectation.

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Oh, I completely agree. ESPECIALLY with C, I don't think it's really even Norse mythology at that point. It's one thing to change small things but they've changed what's really the essential normative characteristic of Norse mythology. It's like having a movie about Jesus where he acts like Duke Nukem. I just want to be clear that a true rendition of Norse mythology wouldn't have black gods, and it isn't racist to say so, that's just the reasonable expectation.

Oh, yeah - I can definitely agree with that, if we're going for historical accuracy. It's just that I don't think the goal of this movie is to be historically accurate haha

I know it isn't, but still, I think there's a point at which something is so fundamentally different from what it's adapted from that it ceases to be an adaptation and becomes a misappropriation. For me it isn't even remotely the black actor that does it, it's saying that the gods stand for the exact opposite of what they traditionally stand for.

 

[t3h br0th3r]

Mabey they ought to have more black people in the marvel universe, it worked for Hemidal, worked for Nick Fury, and worked for Green Lantern in the cartoon. worked for Aqua Lad too... I mean do you have any idea how hard that is, they made aquaman's version or robin pretty dang hard.


Besides, it isn't like they broke the rule of three. If they did that people would REALLY start acting crazy.

Rule of three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16sKK-1oLQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[T-004]

"I think he perform excellently as Heimdall in the film. I don't get the whole issue seeing how in Daredevil the Kingpin was played by Michael Clarke Duncan (well ok added with the whole Norse God stuff) but serious while I can get how certain stuff should be accurate to the comics but with casting actors to which characters should not be a problem." - Scarim Coral

Shhhh! We don't talk about Daredevil, it didn't happen

When I first heard that Heimdall would be played by a black man I thought it odd, but having seen the film I think he was the perfect choice.
He gave personality to a background character and stood out on the merit of his performance in a film with some very strong foreground characters such as Chris Hemsworth.

I think that overall the casting in this film was inspired and I cant wait to see the next arc of the story.

P.S. Sorry about the manual quote, for some reason the button wouldn't work?

 

[Saelune]

It depends for me. Sometimes you get Ultimate Nick, one of the FEW good Ultimate characters. I wont cry over a black Heimdall, but if they made Thor or Odin black, I would not be so cool with it. Its a canon thing though. When movies mess with comic book canon...you get Wolverine Origins....*shiver*

 

[ReiverCorrupter]

Oh, I completely agree. ESPECIALLY with C, I don't think it's really even Norse mythology at that point. It's one thing to change small things but they've changed what's really the essential normative characteristic of Norse mythology. It's like having a movie about Jesus where he acts like Duke Nukem. I just want to be clear that a true rendition of Norse mythology wouldn't have black gods, and it isn't racist to say so, that's just the reasonable expectation.

Oh, yeah - I can definitely agree with that, if we're going for historical accuracy. It's just that I don't think the goal of this movie is to be historically accurate haha

I know it isn't, but still, I think there's a point at which something is so fundamentally different from what it's adapted from that it ceases to be an adaptation and becomes a misappropriation. For me that isn't even remotely the black actor that does it, it's saying that the gods stand for the exact opposite of what they traditionally stand for.

Haha, seriously. I went into the trailer expecting it to be about Norse mythology, and went all ಠ_ಠ when I heard Odin get angry at Thor for "breaking the peace."

Yup. In the back of my mind I knew that there's no way they'd let something pro-war in general into a comic book, but I still experienced the same combination of shock, confusion and disgust when I heard that line.

Plus I thought they had cast the black dude as Loki and I figured there would be HELL to pay in the media for the obvious racial connotations of that. Glad to see I was wrong, there would be a HUGE backlash had he been Loki.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I remember when people complained about how the characters in the Avatar: TLA movie were all white. No one got mad at them. What's different about this? Oh, right, he's black. Somehow this makes it horrible to speak against his casting. (Yes, I know Avatar is terrible).

 

[Goofguy]

I'll reserve my judgment until I see the movie. The way I see it, if he has the acting chops to pull it off, then why not cast him?

Interesting point to debate though, how would this have all gone down if they had cast a black actor as Thor...? Would people still be cool with it even if he did an amazing job in the role? How far can you 'deviate' from the source material before 90% of your audience starts saying WTF?

 

[Sudenak]

I think it's just sad that this even needs to be discussed. You hire actors to play the part. End of discussion.

People getting this worked up about a bunch of hyper rich folks who get hyper rich by playing make believe for a living is just a plug for racism.

Sit back and ask yourself:

Am I complaining because the movie based loosely on a comic book sucked (a la Spiderman 3), or am I complaining because the skin color wasn't what I wanted in my comic book movie? If you're ignoring the quality of your Comic. Book. Movie. then you're being a racist prick. Even if you think you're discussing it with a positive light towards blacks. Because the moment you step back and say "well, Norse Gods are white" and not "...but then again they aren't super futuristic aliens with future-technology either", you're not saying it for any other reason besides being a prick.

It's not any better than those pricks who kept saying "Is America -ready- for a black president?"

This discussion is just...it's just /facepalm.

Or to put it simply: Don't judge an actor based on skin color, judge them based on acting ability. I've heard he played the role excellently, so where the hell is the problem? The super advanced space alien Norse Gods need to be accurate to real Norse Gods in skin color only?