Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

[teknoarcanist]

Putting on the devil's advocate cap for a minute.

To the people on Elba's side: what would be the reaction to a movie based on, say, African tribal mythology, with a white cast? Ethically speaking, how would that affect your opinion of this casting decision?

To to the people on the other side: What about if the cast were not black...but also not white? Would all you people up in arms about a black guy playing Heimdall be as defensive of a Chinese man playing Anansi, if all you're REALLY concerned about is the preservation of cultural legacy? Are you really speaking objectively?

Spoiler

Or do you a maaaaaayyyybe have a little bit of a bias, when it comes to the white-black dichotomy?

Just food for thought.

 

[JDKJ]

Look at it this way: it's compensation for Marvel's "Tarzan" comics. How's a white British guy gonna be Lord of the Jungle? He didn't even own a tube of sunblock. That don't make no sense.

Huh. It's been a while since I've needed to say this, but... not sure if serious. You do know about the original Tarzan books, right?

In the Thor comic's Heimdall was white. In the Thor movie Heimdall is black. THIS MOVIE IS HORRIBLE.
In the story Rita Hayworth And The Shawshank Redemption, Red was a white guy. In the movie Shawshank Redemption, Red was a black guy. THIS MOVIE IS HORRIBLE.

Yes. Edgar Rice Burroughs' "Tarzan of the Apes." And?

 

[TheAbominableDan]

You know why they cast Idris Elba as Heimdall? It has nothing to do with his race, it's because he's awesome. Have you people seen The Wire?

People suggesting this is like casting a white person as Martin Luther King and the like need to get over themselves. They may have said Heimdall was the whitest of the gods but the colour of his skin isn't actually a factor in the mythology. Filming a movie about the life of Martin Luther King would be a movie about race, so accuracy would be important. But Thor is an action movie, it's not about those things.

I'm a big comics fan, especially of Thor. And Heimdall is my favorite character in the Thor stuff. I couldn't be more thrilled with this casting. It's Stringer Bell! How cool is that?

 

[Cherry Cola]

As much as all you people want, different skin color isn't and will never be the same thing as different hair color, or different eye color. It's different. Black and white is like man and woman. Having a black man cast as a character who's been white in all other iterations is not the same as casting a blond James Bond (though many people made it seem like that when Casino Royale came out). I mean Christ, how popular do you think "The Last of the Mohicans" would have been if Daniel Day-Lewis was supposed to play an actual Native-American, and not an adopted son? People would have called it white-washing. So how come this isn't facing similar critique? Because it's not as significant as my example? To some people, it is. If you're going to argue for or against this, this is something you need to realize.

I agree. If anyone was to make a film based on the Hindu or Chinese mythology (or indeed mythical folk hero's) i would rather such films be casted only by Indian and Chinese actors respectably. Otherwise, it breaks immersion because we have certain expectations of characters. We expect James Bond to be white, British, have gadgets, fast cars get laid frequently. If they made James Bond, say, American, that would just spoil it because that is not a feature of his character. Same applies to race. Still, i wouldn't be kicking up a huge fuss about the casting of a relatively minor character- the reaction to this is overblown.

PS: What is up with all the people feeling the need to point out that they are from Scandinavia? To anyone who does this: You have no, nor will you ever have, any connection to Norse Mythology in your entire existence. Your nationality doesn't suddenly make you higher above everyone else in this discussion.

What day is it today? Wodensday! Tomorrow will be Thor's day, and the day after Freya's day. I'm not Scandinavian, but the legacy of the Vikings is all over Britain, my home country. Most obviously in place names- York, Grimsby, any place named Irby etc are all Viking-given names. Plus, if you have any British or Irish heritage, you probably have a Norse ancestor some where.

I understand that that Scandinavians can lay a special claim to have Viking heritage, but i think most people whom live in the British Isles and even Normandy in France can also claim a connection to the Vikings as well. They settled everywhere.

As I said, these are all superficial conventions that doesn't give anyone a connection to Norse Mythology, and it certainly doesn't give anyone the right to feel entitled to a special place in a debate. But I guess this can be blamed on my improper phrasing of my statement.

 

[Cherry Cola]

PS: What is up with all the people feeling the need to point out that they are from Scandinavia? To anyone who does this: You have no, nor will you ever have, any connection to Norse Mythology in your entire existence. Your nationality doesn't suddenly make you higher above everyone else in this discussion.

Actually, we do. Norse-gods and religion still flavor our culture, our national holidays, and our common names.
As late as the 19th century, Rune-writing was still used in some parts of the country (Sweden), and paganism is alive and well.

So don't speak of things you don't know anything about.

These are not connections. These are conventions. People in England can be said to have as much of a connection to Nordic religion as Scandinavians. All of this is superficial. The names, the holidays, it's just a superficial link between contemporary Scandinavia and Nordic Mythology that might as well be doing-fuck-all-because-we-can days.

As for the culture, that's just false. Ignoring the fact that the culture of Scandinavia is pathetically insignificant as it is, there is nothing from Norse Mythology that support the social rules now in place. The popular Swedish mindset of everything having to be "lagom" came from Viking custom. Hell, Sweden could barely call itself a real country until far after Nordic Mythology was abolished.

As for the runes, you are once again applying Nordic Mythology to something it had absolutely nothing to do with.

Let me just put this as clearly as possible: Norse Mythology did not have any moral values to enforce. It had no messages to preach, it had nothing to teach. It is one of the most pointless religions ever to have existed.

So my point still stands: Nobody from Scandinavia has no reason to proclaim their national heritage.

And them crappy Volvos ain't nothing to be proud of, either.

I am insulted. THIS MEANS CULTURAL WAR

 

[FarleShadow]

I haven't seen Thor yet, but really, why is it when anyone questions the choice of actors for a role (and its given to a black person), they suddenly become KKK loving racists?

 

[JDKJ]

You know why they cast Idris Elba as Heimdall? It has nothing to do with his race, it's because he's awesome. Have you people seen The Wire?

People suggesting this is like casting a white person as Martin Luther King and the like need to get over themselves. They may have said Heimdall was the whitest of the gods but the colour of his skin isn't actually a factor in the mythology. Filming a movie about the life of Martin Luther King would be a movie about race, so accuracy would be important. But Thor is an action movie, it's not about those things.

I'm a big comics fan, especially of Thor. And Heimdall is my favorite character in the Thor stuff. I couldn't be more thrilled with this casting. It's Stringer Bell! How cool is that?

And it's not until he opens his mouth to speak when he's not acting and that thick English accent comes pouring out that you realize how talented an actor he is.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

Let me just put this as clearly as possible: Norse Mythology did not have any moral values to enforce. It had no messages to preach, it had nothing to teach. It is one of the most pointless religions ever to have existed.

I think you should read Havamal and see for yourself wether or not the Norse had any moral values to teach.
Much of what can be read from Havamal are actually guidelines on how to behave and humanity could gain from following many of them (not all clearly but most).

So I would definitely not call the Norse Mythology pointless.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Let me just put this as clearly as possible: Norse Mythology did not have any moral values to enforce. It had no messages to preach, it had nothing to teach. It is one of the most pointless religions ever to have existed.

I think you should read Havamal and see for yourself wether or not the Norse had any moral values to teach.
Much of what can be read from Havamal are actually guidelines on how to behave and humanity could gain from following many of them (not all clearly but most).

So I would definitely not call the Norse Mythology pointless.

This interests me very much. I shall follow your advice.

 

[MercurySteam]

Bullshit. He was one of the best characters in the move and portrayed his role perfectly. Why the fuck do people still have trouble appreciating talent because of the colour of someone's skin?

I though we we past this crap already.

 

[The Rockerfly]

Seriously? People complained about that? I was a fantastic film and Idris did a great job, I didn't even notice he was black until I pulled my jaw up from the special effects

 

[tkioz]

I can see both sides of this argument and since I haven't seen the film I can't comment on his performance as an actor (blame my local cinema for only showing in 3D, no movie is worth a multi-day migraine and vomiting) I can only comment in generalities.

On one hand, they (The Norse gods) are figures of myth, and can be represented however you want, honestly most ancient Gods were not very nice at all, they were reflections of the culture that spawned them, if you want a Norse God to have dark skin, meh, not a big deal, after all you've changed so much else about them, they are basically In-Name-Only characters already.

On the other hand... Take "The Prince of Persia" as an example of double standards, there was a decently sized stink of casting a "white" actor to play, well a Persian. How exactly do you think casting a white dude, say Nick Cage, to play, let's pick an African God at random, Cghene [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cghene], how do you think that would go down? Wouldn't that be rightly scorned as white-washing? So why is annoyance at similar actions taken as racism? That's not to say some racists didn't jump on the bandwargon, those people need a kick in the head, but not everyone who was annoyed was racist.

Is it alight to be "racist" towards one group but not another? Either it's good for the goose and the gander, or it's wrong for both.

Honestly I think Hollywood needs to do less token stuff and do a good movie with a strong main character, who just happens to be black, or gay, or whatever. No more of this token bullshit.

 

[DTWolfwood]

just want to say that Nick Fury was a white man and was casted as a black man so this is ok excuse is bullshit.

Anyone who don't read comics and saw Ironman had no idea who Nick Fury was. I sure as hell didn't. But anyone who had even a bit of education in world history know of the Norse Gods.

Yes but knowing about the real Norse gods wouldn?t matter since the Marvel Norse gods are completely different.

Try not to do partial quoting. I hate it when ppl quote me out of context. Especially in this cast where i specifically said it does not matter in the big picture.

Its nice that you can say Marvel Norse Gods are different, it doesn't change the fact that even in marvel all of them were as white as wonderbread. So where is their excuse for this random choice of casting especially when you are dealing with mythology that exist OUTSIDE the world of comics.

It doesn't change the fact that using Nick Fury as an excuse here it wrong.

 

[Mavinchious Maximus]

Let's cast a black jew as hitler in the next WWII movie, ok?

I understand the complaining about canon, but the plot of the movie is pretty different from the comics.

now that seems like a interesting ww2 movie

 

[silasbufu]

Wow, someone complaining about this doesn't have much going on in his life huh?

 

[concrete89]

That is what they are whining about?
They fucked that shit up the moment they made the comic...
What about the part where they made Thor blonde? Or turned him into jesus? And an alien?
Man... Norse mythology used to be cool. Why did they have to turn them all into wimps?

 

[JDKJ]

I don't like it. I'm just going to put that out there. That isn't a knock at this guys acting ability. It is however because he is black. I have no problem with any other race and racism disgusts me frankly. Im not racist, but what I am is anal. Everything has to be correct. The fact is there wouldn't have been a black Norse god. They were created on the ideals of Nordic people. They'd never have met a black person in their entire lives. The God's they created represent that.

Now for those of you undoubetdly reading this and foaming at the mouth. Just waiting to hit the quote button and call me a racist.

If there was to be a film made about the Hindu Gods. Would it be acceptable to cast one of them as a white guy?

Nope.

And I'd voice my disapproval of that if it ever happened too. Just like I voice my disapproval of the whole 30-50's period of films, where they thought it was a good idea to cast hansom yet talentless Americans as Greek to Middle eastern important figures in their films. You might just get away with it over the small gap between American Caucasian and European Caucasian. But Black and white is a big miscast really.

There's no point shoe horning someone into a film, simply to appeal to or silence a portion of the ordinance. And you can bet people would be playing the race card if someone tried doing the same with a white guy in a film who's cast and story is prominently black.

There are countless films about the life and times of Jesus, from "Jesus Christ, Superstar" to "The Passion of Christ." Not one of them have casts that predominately resemble Middle Easterners. In fact, the role of Jesus is invariable cast with a white guy. If anyone's been "playing the race card" in response to this long history of racial miscasting, it's obviously been falling on deaf ears.

 

[tzimize]

I just saw the film yesterday, and I'm glad he was cast in the role. He was epic! I would have gladly watched an entire film about him without a single mention of Thor.

I agree. I found Heimdal to be just awesome. However I completely understand fans that didnt like a black guy being cast. And not because the actor is black, but because Heimdal is white. There is a difference :> I dont quite understand why they made a black Nick Fury either.

The term "token black guy" doesnt exist for no reason. Make no mistake I do not mind black people (or people of any other color of the rainbow for that matter), but I can see why people choose to cast them where they [sometimes] dont belong. They want to appeal to a bigger fanbase of course.

This can be quite OK in some respects. And since this is USAs version of Aasgard...I dont mind. It seemed more sci-fi than the "real" Aasgard anyway, and I dont mind that there are different interpretations of it. So I didnt meind Heimdal. Didnt hurt that he was awesome either In other respects though, it can be just wrong.

That said I dont have a deep relationship to the Thor comics, nor Marvels Heimdal so its not too strange it didnt bother me.

 

[radiant song]

I've watched Thor twice. I intend to purchase the DVD.

Idris Elba did indeed play Heimdall very well. He was the most imposing and least human-like of the Asgardians.

I fully believed he had infinite sight and hearing. Quite a good show.

 

[JDKJ]

Let's cast a black jew as hitler in the next WWII movie, ok?

I understand the complaining about canon, but the plot of the movie is pretty different from the comics.

now that seems like a interesting ww2 movie

And Lenny Kravitz would make an excellent Hitler. I know his agent. Maybe I'll pitch the idea to him.