BlizzCon '09: Blizzard Announces WoW: Cataclysm

[Brett Alex]

I believe that any horde should not be allowed to play as a paladin at all.

You don't remember the Scarlet Crusade? The extremist order of human Paladins who attack and kill fellow human, dwarf, hell any Alliance members (including other paladins) on sight? The paladins who torture and and maim and kill, and use their light-given powers to do so, because they believe the end justifies the means?

They are perhaps the strongest argument for anyone being able to bend the light to their will.

In regards to Blood Elf paladins being evil, initially they stole the power by draining it from a captured Narru, but following the wrap-up of BC, the Blood Elf 'Blood Knights' were kinda redeemed by the Narru(sp? I think I might have missed an apostrophe somewhere), which meant they have now been given the power legit, in return for siding with the Draneii to waste Kil'Jadean.

 

[Amnestic]

Narru(sp? I think I might have missed an apostrophe somewhere)

Naaru. No apostrophe, double A.

 

[Shraggler]

The only plus I see is flying in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms, but it's probably going to kill the economic system. I'm not much of a WoW fanatic, but I've been playing Warcraft since Orcs and Humans debuted and I thought the story was awesome until WC3. With the random ass technology jump, the dorky/campy contraptions, and plot holes the size of Nevada, the game didn't really appeal to me.

WoW kind of got me back into it. However, being totally unfamiliar with MMOs and not much willing to sit and stare at a screen for hours at a time, it took me over a year and a half to level my character to 60. But I got to see Azeroth and Stormwind keep, Northshire, the Swamp of Sorrows, etc. I thought that was pretty awesome. The quest lines are well thought out and did a pretty good job of immersion. The thing I didn't like was the massive amount of retconning they did. I can understand why, but it was just ridiculous. Here's me with a basic understanding of the history of the Warcraft universe from the first, second, and third games, and I'm going "Who is that guy? Tirone? Tirion? Tits?". There's huge, major characters that have an apparent history throughout all of the games, and this is the first we hear of them. I know it's necessary for the sake of game progression, but it's nonetheless a cheap copout.

Cataclysm honestly looks pretty broken. I like how they have changed the landscape of the world to reflect the change of the game and will have to put a lot of work in for the quests (both low- and high-level), but the concept feels cheap. Tauren paladins? Worgen as the new Alliance race? The Goblin-Horde symbiosis makes sense... but Worgen? What? One open-ended quest chain justifies that? I would've honestly been more supportive of High Elves.

Still... onward to 15 million.

 

[Amnestic]

With the random ass technology jump, the dorky/campy contraptions, and plot holes the size of Nevada, the game didn't really appeal to me.

You didn't bother to notice the Gnomish Submarine units in Warcraft 2 then I take it?

 

[Pimppeter2]

I like this. If I played wow I would be thrilled

 

[stonethered]

i will concede on a few points. the forsaken are evil and for all that i hate the man i would help varian take bsck lordaeron. as for jaina she, like thrall, may not be inspiring but she is reliable and intelligent. i would follow her. varian would make a great warchief, and i would readily trade him for thrall. however, having checked my copy of arthas: rise of the lich king (whats with his whole horse thing anyway) you are also right in saying that varian was a proponent of the internment camps. and finally i doubt you can be convinced that the horde is not base evil. i will however say that if the horde is evil, so is the alliance. point in question: altereac valley home for multiple generations to the frostwolf clan, then invaded by the dwarves. the altereac valley was not ocupied by any members of the alliance and so the frostwolf were not a threat to them. additionaly any comments about varian being a slave must be atributed to the black dragonflight(indirectly).

another point is the general bigotry of humans towards the other races, the scarlet crusade, grand marshal garithos, etc. the horde and alliance can afford to be friends but insist otherwise to the detriment of all.

 

[leviathanmisha]

RAWR! I just won my friends back from WoW...dammit!!!!

 

[Blood_Lined]

I believe that any horde should not be allowed to play as a paladin at all.

You don't remember the Scarlet Crusade? The extremist order of human Paladins who attack and kill fellow human, dwarf, hell any Alliance members (including other paladins) on sight? The paladins who torture and and maim and kill, and use their light-given powers to do so, because they believe the end justifies the means?

They are perhaps the strongest argument for anyone being able to bend the light to their will.

In regards to Blood Elf paladins being evil, initially they stole the power by draining it from a captured Narru, but following the wrap-up of BC, the Blood Elf 'Blood Knights' were kinda redeemed by the Narru(sp? I think I might have missed an apostrophe somewhere), which meant they have now been given the power legit, in return for siding with the Draneii to waste Kil'Jadean.

Yes, but I believe the original ways of becoming a paladin. In order to become one, you had to be a truly faithful person and did everything that was right, and honorable, then eventually you were granted the holy powers of a paladin. If you did evil deeds, those powers were taken away by the very divine entities that granted them to you in the first place. So...My belief is that you cannot be a paladin AT ALL, if you give in to evil ways at any time, because then it would not be possible to have the powers of a paladin in the first place.

 

[Amnestic]

altereac valley home for multiple generations to the frostwolf clan, then invaded by the dwarves. the altereac valley was not ocupied by any members of the alliance and so the frostwolf were not a threat to them.

The Dwarves have been around for thousands of years. The Alliance Players guide states that Alterac Valley is one of the homes of the Stormpike Clan. They have plenty of claim to the land. It wasn't an invasion, it was a civilian archeological dig. They only moved in military units when the Frostwolf attacked. Their expedition went in there to search for relics from their past. The Frostwolves, however, attacked their expedition without provocation. Surely if the Horde are all about peace, they would have at least sent an emissary to start negotiations? It wouldn't be the first time that the Horde and Alliance had negotiations over dwarven dig sites. The one in Mulgore, for instance, is now sanctioned by the Horde thanks to Brann Bronzebeard's diplomatic intervention. The Horde have a shaman on site to make sure the land isn't damaged unnecessarily and the Dwarves can conduct their archeological research.

additionaly any comments about varian being a slave must be atributed to the black dragonflight(indirectly).

Not really. Onyxia had Varian captured and held on Alcaz Island, but it was the Gladiator trainer Rehgar Earthfury who made him a slave. While Onyxia is to blame for him being in the position for such a situation, the Orcs are not without blame.

Yes, but I believe the original ways of becoming a paladin. In order to become one, you had to be a truly faithful person and did everything that was right, and honorable, then eventually you were granted the holy powers of a paladin. If you did evil deeds, those powers were taken away by the very divine entities that granted them to you in the first place. So...My belief is that you cannot be a paladin AT ALL, if you give in to evil ways at any time, because then it would not be possible to have the powers of a paladin in the first place.

Not so. Even after Arthas sacrifices Muradin to get to Frostmourne, when he tries to heal Muradin, he still feels the Light coursing through him. When he turns away and goes to his new runeblade however, it leaves him.

The Light recognises redemption. It can leave you and come back again. You don't need to be a Paladin to wield the Light either. Priests, obviously, use the Light in their own way. Well, assuming they're not Shadow Priests, but lore wise they're almost entirely separate from normal priests. See The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow [http://www.wowwiki.com/Cult_of_Forgotten_Shadow].

 

[Teh_Doomage]

Just when I got tired of the game, they announce stuff so awesome that it's going to drag me back in.

 

[IcePho3nix]

Personally, I think it looks great, except for one -tiny- detail.

To me, no matter how they (Blizzard) try to justify what they have, I still think the Worgen and Goblins would be Neutral races, and rather than automatically going Worgs are gonna be Allies and Goblins are gonna be Horde, I think it'd make more sense if you got to pick which side you would play on as either race.

Otherwise, great shit here!

 

[stonethered]

an orc was responsible, not all of them.
and if the stormpike had more than one home why couldn't they go away and concede one tiny valley? or if the plural was unintentional then both sides are at fault, as either could have attempted negotiations.

at the root of all of azeroth's problems, ultimately, is sargeras. he should, and could have, have finished off yogg sarron and his ilk long ago. then neltharion(deathwing) wouldn't be all crazy. furthermore, sargeras is responsible for the burning legion, which is in turn responsible for every thing else; including the orcish, undead(scourge and the forsaken), and corruption of the elves.
Blizzard we want to finish him off before the new MMO comes out k thx, or bye.

 

[IcePho3nix]

Tauren paladins? Worgen as the new Alliance race? The Goblin-Horde symbiosis makes sense... but Worgen? What? One open-ended quest chain justifies that? I would've honestly been more supportive of High Elves.

Thank you! You'd have people saying," ... but the Alliance already HAS elves, and the Blood Elves are basically a subgroup of High Elves," but at least THIS makes sense!

 

[Amnestic]

an orc was responsible, not all of them.

Again, does that matter to Varian? Every encounter he's had with Orcs has been negative. There's been no Eitrigg like Tirion, no Taretha like Thrall. His entire knowledge of Orcs has been based around negatives. That he didn't go and slaughter every last one of them as soon as he returned to Stormwind after his life as a Gladiator says more than something about him as a King.

and if the stormpike had more than one home why couldn't they go away and concede one tiny valley?

Why should they have to give up their land for some aliens from another planet who didn't even ask to have some land or barter for it, but rather moved in and just set up shop?

 

[Brett Alex]

So...My belief is that you cannot be a paladin AT ALL, if you give in to evil ways at any time, because then it would not be possible to have the powers of a paladin in the first place.

See those red lines?
Thats Blood Elf Magisters literally 'Stealing light'. Siphoning it from the Naaru (thank you Amnesitic). Thats how they became paladins.

 

[stonethered]

a good point about varian. i concede, he is a much more restrained and capable king than i had previously thought.
in response to your second statement:
draenei

 

[The_Prophet]

Gawd, its ALREADY hard to find a horde player that isnt a pally..

Also, i have checked a few other sources and it IS going to be every race / every class.


I'm so pumped for this, now maybe i won't be so sick of leveling thorugh 10-40 over and over and over again. maybe i can reach my goal of every class at max level =/

No, it's not going to be every race/every class. They're wrong

No, no, no, no, no, no! Tauren palladins, Dwarf Shamans, Troll druids?!?! What the fuck blizz? You crazy? Seems to me that they don't know any lore. Also, fuck this, Mulgore burned? NO!

Troll Druids - Hey, look at Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman. Plenty of Trolls turning into animals there.

Tauren Paladins - Tauren have been curious about the power of the Sun compared to the Druids' worship of the moon.

Dwarf Shamans - the Wildhammer clan are very shamanistic.

I think they know the lore better than you do.

Damn, I have been shown who is the boss!

 

[Blood_Lined]

So...My belief is that you cannot be a paladin AT ALL, if you give in to evil ways at any time, because then it would not be possible to have the powers of a paladin in the first place.

See those red lines?
Thats Blood Elf Magisters literally 'Stealing light'. Siphoning it from the Naaru (thank you Amnesitic). Thats how they became paladins.

Which my point was that in the days, God himself basically gave you divine power which what made you a paladin, you could not steal it, you could not buy it, you earned it by being the most holy person that you could be, and if your ways ever changed, then God took those powers right back away from you. That is a REAL paladin.

 

[Brett Alex]

Which my point was that in the days, God himself basically gave you divine power which what made you a paladin, you could not steal it, you could not buy it, you earned it by being the most holy person that you could be, and if your ways ever changed, then God took those powers right back away from you. That is a REAL paladin.

Yes... but thats not how it works in Warcraft. For starters, there is no monotheistic 'God' in Warcraft. Now you're arguing which fantasy rules Blizz should and shouldn't follow in their own universe, which is silly. We could also say that trolls are massive hulking, primitive, hairy creatures who communicate with grunts, not tribal, voodoo-practicing jamaican-accented break dancers. We could say that Elves are not tall, attractive, lithe archers, but instead are squat, misshapen, domestic servants.

But all of this is pointless. Because its Blizz's lore, which means they can interpret and use it anyway they want, and there is no point in us standing on the sideline shouting "Thats not what a real kobold/elf/troll/paladin looks like!"

Either way, you seem very definite in your opinion, so I think we'll have to admit neither of us is going to change the others opinion.

 

[Blood_Lined]

Which my point was that in the days, God himself basically gave you divine power which what made you a paladin, you could not steal it, you could not buy it, you earned it by being the most holy person that you could be, and if your ways ever changed, then God took those powers right back away from you. That is a REAL paladin.

Yes... but thats not how it works in Warcraft. For starters, there is no monotheistic 'God' in Warcraft. Now you're arguing which fantasy rules Blizz should and shouldn't follow in their own universe, which is silly. We could also say that trolls are massive hulking, primitive, hairy creatures who communicate with grunts, not tribal, voodoo-practicing jamaican-accented break dancers. We could say that Elves are not tall, attractive, lithe archers, but instead are squat, misshapen, domestic servants.

But all of this is pointless. Because its Blizz's lore, which means they can interpret and use it anyway they want, and there is no point in us standing on the sideline shouting "Thats not what a real kobold/elf/troll/paladin looks like!"

Either way, you seem very definite in your opinion, so I think we'll have to admit neither of us is going to change the others opinion.

I know what Blizzards rules are, and their stories are definitely different from others, I just keep having to keep stating that my points are all based off of my opinions for my dream RPG universe. They are my opinions, and that should not be a problem.