BlizzCon '09: Blizzard Announces WoW: Cataclysm

[Dastardos]

Shit. My addiction is kicking in again, and making me want to join back.

 

[Slycne]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

 

[Kajt]

Meh, I'm getting bored of the game. I'll probably quit before the expansion comes.

I miss the old, non-fucked up Warcraft.

THANK you, I am glad that I am not alone. People need to start playing gnomes people! They are the least played race, and blood-elves are incredibly over-used. Human hunters? Tauren Paladins? Come on people, this is ridiculous.

I can see the future of WoW, thousands and thousands of human hunters named "Falcorn".

Or perhaps thousands of elves with "iixxLegolasxxii" I seriously saw a player that had that as their name.

I've seen dwarves named Gimli.

GIMLI!

If people want to name their freaking characters after LOTR, SO badly, then why don't they just go and play LOTRO? I find myself asking this question many times. Corpse campers need to be fixed as well.

Even more annoying are the DKs named "Arthus". Seriously, ever heard of creativity?

Well apparently not the throng of twelve year-olds that make up WoW's community playing on their father's servers.

And that community is why I'll probably quit before the next expansion is out.

I quit during the Burning Crusade expansion era, once I noticed that there were nothing but Blood-Elves. I took one look around and went "well, this is original" 'Log off'.

It's just the same thing over and over again, no point in paying for it.

 

[Abedeus]

"So, what's new this expansion?"
"WEZ ADDED TEN MOAR LEVULZ"
"..Okay, cool. Pass."

Give me another Diablo 3 class, now!

Yeah...that's exactly what this expansion is not doing, wich I'm pretty glad about. It's not just more of the same. I still want another Diablo 3 class though, I want that game so much...

Yeah, my bad. I just noticed that they are adding only 5 moar levulz.

 

[Blood_Lined]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

 

[Zallest]

I'd be more excited for the game i just stopped playing if they had announced a new hero class or something better then "yay horde gets goblins" (because no one plays alliance right?) redoing the old stuff is what i expected them to do so it's no big shock or anything exciting, but maybe now they will finally open the Ulda instance in Tanaris that has been there since the game was made but was left untouched

 

[iblis666]

i quit wow but they just keep pulling me back

 

[Amnestic]

The undead just want to be accepted

The small interlude with Sylvanas in the book Arthas: Rise of the Lich King suggests that the Banshee Queen is what most people would describe as 'evil'.

The Royal Apothecary Society did almost all of their experiments with her consent. Do you want to know why she was pissed? Because they acted too early. If they'd waited, she'd have been stood alongside Putress screaming death to the Scourge and death to the living.

Wrynn being (in my book) a complete asshole (all he cares about is his personal vendetta, screwing it up for everyone, he's an awfull king).

Personal vendetta? Please. He's acting in the best interest of his country and the fact that he hasn't gone and marched all over Lordaeron is a testament to his patience. The Forsaken are in no position at all to stand up to Stormwind (which is easily the largest faction by at least four times as much as the Orcs) and the dwarves of Ironforge. If Varian committed himself to taking Capital City, a place he holds dear to his heart, he could do so.

But he hasn't. Interesting that.

Then there's the whole Garrosh farce (Watch the Ulduar trailer. Check who draws their weapons first. Check who knocks down the most powerful sorceress in the land.). There are only so many affronts to his nation he can take. Peace for the sake of peace has you come off as weak. Again, people think so little of Jaina that they have no issue with running over her because she comes off as a weak leader. Varian, on the other hand, is obviously ready to do what needs to be done.

And on top of that, there's the whole mess with Garona. So, look at it from this way: You've gone to a peace negotiation with the Horde, no weapons allowed. During this time, you see the Half Orc who murdered your father in front of your innocent child eyes. You not only see her, she's come to assassinate you as well. This Half Orc who, by the way, killed your father under orders from the Old Horde.

What would you think? A no weapons negotiation with a Horde assassin come to kill you? I'd be pretty goddamn pissed at the Horde as well. Yes, she wasn't acting under orders from the Horde, but what reason does Varian have to believe that? He's had nothing but poor encounters with them since the day they walktzed through the Dark Portal.

And yet, he was one of the main proponents for the internment camps. He's a merciful king and you know it. Most people will scoff and say "Internment camps, Amnestic? But those are most certainly bad!" and I would respond: No. They're not. Your land has been beset by strange, green skinned invaders who have killed and plundered their way across your homeland, killed your father and the people you held dearest to you and ransacked your home city.

Eventually however, they're defeated. You now have three choices: Let them go, which is foolish by any stretch of the imagination. You could murder every last one of them, which is what most people would do. After all, they owe nothing to these invaders who clearly aren't human and they have caused unhealable pain to the populace of Stormwind. Or, you could keep them in camps where they would be both protected from outside mobs and couldn't regroup to attack them.

And Varian supported the camps! The most kind choice to both his people and the invading orcs. Personal vendetta indeed.

/rant off

 

[Slycne]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

I guess that's the question then, why are you looking at something that's black/evil and white/good when it's being given as anything but that. Also, the Blood Elves are bending the Light to their will to become Paladins.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Worgens seem to be the first "evil" race to join the Alliance. The Horde has always been a bit mix, but leaning towards evil with the fowl Forsaken and the rist slapping Blood Elves.

The Alliance however have managed to build up up a group of decidedly good two shoes races. Even their demons/aliens are pussys. The Worgen seem essencial to be savage monsters fighting to be human (my WoW lore isn't great, it's so twisted now adays thats not surprising). It's nice to see a more charactistically flawed race join the Alliance. Too bad they're going to be played by furrys.

As an RPer I'm kind of interested to pick up this race, but I'm a little disappointed by the Goblins. People may have been asking for them for years, but when you get down to it they're essencially green Gnomes. There's not really anything new about them.

 

[Cowabungaa]

[
Yeah, my bad. I just noticed that they are adding only 5 moar levulz.

Hah, well that is a good sign. They're not just literally expanding the game, just making the original game longer. They're revamping the whole original continent, something I always wished for (well, after going through the same Azeroth a gazillion times). The new relations between the Horde and the Alliance can also set some nice sparks flying. It's exactly why I'm looking forward to this expansion, it's not just more of the same old game, they're really doing something with the world now.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

Then you're looking at it the wrong way. The Warcraft universe is simply not a black and white universe, neither faction can simply be classfied as 'good' and 'evil'.

@Amnestic:
Well... ok, those are some good points. I'm still not sure about the camps though, I never thought them of smart things to do. They weren't exactly treated properly there so no wonder that the orcs rose up and fought for a home. I would've done what the American government did to dishomed indians, give them a reservation and protect that from outsiders. He pretty explicatly stated he wanted to kill all those green monster/bastards/something like that, him attacking Thrall in Undercity like that, nah not a smart move. Then again so wasn't that half-orc assassin. Ah they both suck I guess, but Thrall is so much nicer!

Ok you're right about the undead though, their grudge against the living has become pretty deep. I still think it could've been avoided though, if the humans would've approached them differently for the first time, if only under the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" banner.

 

[Blood_Lined]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

I guess that's the question then, why are you looking at something that's black/evil and white/good when it's being given as anything but that. Also, the Blood Elves are bending the Light to their will to become Paladins.

I know about the Blood-Elves and their races story, that is just my own personal opinion involving them. My point is involving the Taurens, and as a member of what is an evil group of races, whether they are portrayed as evil or not, is still labeled as "the evil group of races". Due to this, the holy class should not be playable as a member of that horde. Whether or not this applies to Blood-Elves, that is just my own personal desire.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

I guess that's the question then, why are you looking at something that's black/evil and white/good when it's being given as anything but that. Also, the Blood Elves are bending the Light to their will to become Paladins.

Neither are evil groups, though I can understand why people would paint the Horde as they evil side. The Forsaken and the Blood Elves arn't exactly driven by petically "good" goals. That being said, the Alliance have caused their own problems, but I like to think of them as a blind man fighting for his country. He/They mean well, but most of the time they fuck up/shoot their own team.

Anyway, about where Blizzard can go after this, I see it as almost definite they're right now at work creating the Emerald Dream. But then again, that's what I thought this one would be.

EDIT: I personally don't think Taurens make much sense as Paladins either, but that's not because they're on the "evil" side. Taurens never seemed like the type to dabble in the Light, they more focused of shamanistic pursuits.

 

[The_Prophet]

No, no, no, no, no, no! Tauren palladins, Dwarf Shamans, Troll druids?!?! What the fuck blizz? You crazy? Seems to me that they don't know any lore. Also, fuck this, Mulgore burned? NO!

 

[Drendude42]

Gawd, its ALREADY hard to find a horde player that isnt a pally..

Also, i have checked a few other sources and it IS going to be every race / every class.


I'm so pumped for this, now maybe i won't be so sick of leveling thorugh 10-40 over and over and over again. maybe i can reach my goal of every class at max level =/

 

[The_Prophet]

All classes available to all races - ... Seriously? You've just killed "the flavor". I give up... Cant wait to see a 40 man raid made entirely of Elfs...
Oh wait! 40 man raids have been dead since the previous expansion.

That's just not true. Shamans and Druids are still limited, for example, tauren still can't roll rogues just to name something. But a lof of new class-race combo's make sense. Why couldn't humans roll hunters for example? A whole outpost in Grizzly Hills is run by human hunters! Same with undead, one of the most difficult outdoor raidbosses in vanilla WoW was an undead hunter! Why can't a gnome choose to follow the Light? Same counts for a tauren.

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

Horde evil? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *some more laughter* No tauren won't follow the light because they believe in the Earth mother and that's it! Only the undead are evil in the horde.

 

[The_Prophet]

Because a tauren is a member of the Horde. The Horde is EVIL, Paladins are lawful good, and can be lawful good ONLY, so an evil race playing as the most holy of all classes makes absolutely no sense at all to me, which also applies to the blood-elves, they should not be allowed to play as paladins either.

What game have you been playing? Blizzard seems to be going out of their way to portray the Horde, the Tauren especially, as being decidedly not evil. Hell lore wise, if you discount being under someone else's control( the orcs), it's the Alliance races that cause most of the trouble and become the big baddies - who are which Blizzard tries to paint as the actual evil in the land. Two warring factions does not make one good and one evil.

Anyways it looks like Blizzard is adding a lot of cool things to the game. I'm sure it will continue to be as popular as ever, despite what a few naysayers might imply. Probably won't be enough to make me resubscribe, but I wish it the best. I am interested in where they would go from here - there are not that many things left to fight after Deathwing.

I did not mean the Tauren specifically, I meant the Horde as a whole. And since the Tauren is indeed a race of the horde, the Tauren should not be allowed to play as the paladin race. I feel the same way about the Blood-Elves. I know that the Alliance has their own moral problems, but I am simply looking from a black and white perspective, and the horde in this case is black, and the alliance is white, good and evil. If paladins are the most holy of all classes next to the Priest, then why is the evil horde allowed to have one of it's races play as one?

I guess that's the question then, why are you looking at something that's black/evil and white/good when it's being given as anything but that. Also, the Blood Elves are bending the Light to their will to become Paladins.

Neither are evil groups, though I can understand why people would paint the Horde as they evil side. The Forsaken and the Blood Elves arn't exactly driven by petically "good" goals. That being said, the Alliance have caused their own problems, but I like to think of them as a blind man fighting for his country. He/They mean well, but most of the time they fuck up/shoot their own team.

Anyway, about where Blizzard can go after this, I see it as almost definite they're right now at work creating the Emerald Dream. But then again, that's what I thought this one would be.

EDIT: I personally don't think Taurens make much sense as Paladins either, but that's not because they're on the "evil" side. Taurens never seemed like the type to dabble in the Light, they more focused of shamanistic pursuits.

Ok, as I've said, the undead are really evil. They are using the horde as a tool so they can get revenge on the lich king. You know what Puttres (Or however you spell the name) did, right?
About the blood elves, they have redeemed themselves in the whole Muru incident and the fact that the sunwell is now back online makes them ok.
And the Tauren, well again, as I've said, they believe in the earth mother and that's why they don't follow the light.

Personally I think the alliance is more evil. Horde and the Alliance are still at war because the Alliance won't see the fact that the Orcs are good now and have broken free of the demons.

 

[Amnestic]

Well... ok, those are some good points. I'm still not sure about the camps though, I never thought them of smart things to do. They weren't exactly treated properly there so no wonder that the orcs rose up and fought for a home. I would've done what the American government did to dishomed indians, give them a reservation and protect that from outsiders. He pretty explicatly stated he wanted to kill all those green monster/bastards/something like that, him attacking Thrall in Undercity like that, nah not a smart move. Then again so wasn't that half-orc assassin. Ah they both suck I guess, but Thrall is so much nicer!

The American settlers and the Native Americans is a completely different case. The settlers overpowered and took the Native American lands, whereas the Orcs were repelled and didn't manage to conquer them.

In all honesty, you're King of a land which just got ravaged by an entirely alien, bloodthirsty race who killed your dad. How would you react? Bear in mind that at this point in time Varian hadn't even 'come of age'. He was still a child/in his teens so it's not as if he had the age and wisdom of an adult, nor the life experiences of one, to go by. Varian is a good king who has always done what he deemed was Right for the kingdom.

You know that mess with the stonemasons which brought about the Defias? Yeah, he wanted to pay them. The Noble Houses of Stormwind put pressure on him, along with Lady Katrana Prestor (AKA Onyxia, daughter of Deathwing) to not do so.

As for Varian's statement, I assume you're referring to the Battle of the Undercity? He just had to tread through tunnels filled with the experimented on corpses of humans and dwarves. The kind of bioweapon research which would have the entire Earth bearing down on any sovereign nation if it were reality. These are his countrymen remember, people of Stormwind, friends from Ironforge. All of which had been gutted, experimented on, stitched into Abominations...and he had to walk all through this.

And the thing is, he could see this had been going on for a long time. Sylvanas obviously knew about this. It's called the Royal Apothecary Society for a reason you know. So he's faced with two options. Either Sylvanas knew and Thrall did not, in which case he's a weak leader who can't keep a hold on his subjects and it would be better to kill Sylvanas while he has the chance. Or, Sylvanas knew and Thrall also knew, in which case he condoned the experiments on humans and that makes him just as bad as she is and deserving of death.

Again, Varian is a king. He has to think about the safety of his people in the long term as well as the short term. Is keeping the Forsaken alive and holding onto the tentative 'peace' (if you can even call it that) with the Horde worth it when those kind of atrocities were being committed in a land he once called home when he was made a refugee from Stormwind by those same Orcs?

Or should he just kill them, risk a war with the Horde and save his people from more biowarfare?

I still think it could've been avoided though, if the humans would've approached them differently for the first time

*pauses Halo game and draws up his writing chair again*

Ah, but therein lies the rub. The first encounter with human Alliance forces was Grand Marshal Garithos. Sylvanas struck a deal with him after freeing him from Detheroc's mind control. If Garithos pledged his forces to attacking Capital City and killing Balnazzar, Sylvanas would give him the city. That was their deal.

Now whether Garithos was a nice guy or not is not to be debated. He was a colossal toss pot to Kael'thas, there's no doubt about that. He was a racist, xenophobic bigot. But, he was always civil with Sylvanas, as much as their tentative alliance required and he held up his part of the bargain.

What does Sylvanas do? She orders Varimathras to kill him and then has her ghouls tear his corpse to pieces. Sylvanas was the first person to make an aggressive move on the Alliance. If she wanted peace and solidarity with them she certainly went about it the wrong way. Grand Marshal is a very high military rank. The highest a player could acquire in game. Grand Marshal's are people who have had their prowess displayed in battle dozens of times and their importance is hardly in question.

And what does she do? She attacks and kills him. In cold blood. After he had just helped her kill a Dreadlord and cleanse a large deal of Capital City of the Scourge.

If the Forsaken wanted the human hand of friendship to be extended they went about it the wrong way. I mean, really, the wrong way.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Also, i have checked a few other sources and it IS going to be every race / every class.

Your soarces are wrong or mixed up.

Blizzard now say Worgens will get ever class apart from Priests and Pallys. Why would they be limited when every race is getting every class? It's not happening.

Blizzard may have fucked up they're lore royally for the sake of gameplay, but hey wouldn't fuck it so bad we'd have Gnome Druids and Undead shamans running around.

 

[Sevre]

Well. Interesting to say the least. Could this be the last expansion?