buying used games is stupid

[BodomBeachChild]

I buy used. It builds my collection. Do I care if some kid hated SotC because it was all in Japanese? No. It's mine and I win, his loss. Was it used? Of course. Now it has a happy home and Team ICO doesn't seem to be hurting from years of used game sales that followed my purchase. I hate Gamestop, but boy do I love cheap games.

 

[Savryc]

Used games are cheaper, I don't care about any other reasons. If I find a used copy of a game I want damn straight I'm gonna get the used one.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

nope. Your not spending money either way. Sure piracy is illegal and you will get roshambo'd for that. But people who pirate EVERYTHING probably weren't going to be a consumer in the first place. I long ago gave up arguing against them because their thieves and theres no rationalizing with them.

Compared to a consumer trying to save a few bucks by giving money to people who have nothing to do with the game. Which is a shame because in doing the decent thing and paying they payed the wrong people, and if more people actually bought first hand the industry would be much healthier, and more risky titles would be being made.

Which is a shame in my eyes.

But by all means you go ahead and save your 5 bucks and watch developers fail. Hope that will be fun for you.

Yeah, actually, it will. Because I'll be laughing at them for complaining bitterly on the one hand that the retailers are screwing them over with used game sales, while they are at the same time actually developing exclusive content for competing retailers. Not to mention for their failure to interpret the surge in used game sales as a sign that they need to start offering titles with more longevity, instead of five hour junk arbitrarily strung out for the people with OCD by putting in several grind-tastic achievements. Your idea that I should throw more money at them to make them take more risks is so devoid of any basic logic it actually makes me laugh out loud. "Oh look, more people than ever are giving me money for doing the same thing. Do I have any reason to change? No."

 

[Oirish_Martin]

I don't know what retailers are being talked about here but certainly I think the ones I use (Game and HMV) have a reasonably competitive second hand setup going on. I will also use Amazon.

But so what if the money doesn't go straight back to the devs? These retailers don't take PC games back because they're seen as more vulnerable to cracks etc. but PC gaming at least still has a diverse retail market. These retailers are practically the only diversity in the market for console games. The absolute last thing I want is for them to die off and only be able to get games from XBL at Microsoft's exorbitant prices.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years.

it probably isn't just you. However, every year, we see multiple record-breaking, chart topping sales of new games.

Used gaming has grown.

Gaming in general, new specifically, has as well.

Which kind of begs the question, "so what?"

 

[dead.juice]

I buy used games because they smell funny.

TBS, If I really like the game, I'll buy it new. I'll buy used games when I'm adding to my collection of general games.

 

[Something Amyss]

On point 4) May I introduce you to the used-music store? Walk right in and find CD's, cassettes, vinyls, and what have you all for the low-low price of less than new.

NO! ONLY ITUNES EXISTS! DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING LOLOLOL

Seriously, though, most of these arguments are based on selectively ignoring things.

Like music stores. Though that one qwas particularly glaring.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money.

By that kind of dodgy accounting they could also claim that it costs them money when people lend games for friends to play. Or have their friends around and let them play the game. A friend lent my brother Assassin's Creed II just recently; both my brother and I played it. Did we just cost Ubisoft two purchases?

no because you weren't paying money to do so, people buying used ARE. And yeah im behind content creators getting money for what they make.

You mean like they do when the game sells the first time? Yeah. I don't think any of us damn them for that.

yeah 1x 60 dollars. This isnt about whether or not you paid for a thing.Its who the moneys going to and people buying used to save a tiny bit of money have it all go to a worthless middle man.

So i genuinely think anyone who primarily games via used games, doesnt really love gaming enough to reward the people making the damn things.

First off, might I recommend using the shift key for the word "I" and spelling it "Doesn't"? Remember, punctuation saves lives.

Second, yes. It is FULLY about who got paid for the thing. Why are video games so special that they need to be treated differently than any other form of media? You are ignoring this. Also, I love your line about not loving gaming. I'm sorry, but what? That reeks of ad hominem.

the fact you quoted punctuation and minor spelling as a point weakens your side dramatically (oh look i have a real life what a shame this is).

Their not "so special" but they are different, i direct you to the long ass post i just made on how you can't compare this used market to every other. THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

p.s i am often aware of my spelling and punctuation but feel that worrying about them in a casual setting such as this where people can fully understand what i am saying is a waste of effort, this isn't the new yorker.

Christ alive, man. I was only giving a recommendation to you.

Also, all other used markets are different from other used markets. So this used market is different from used markets in being different. If that makes any sense. Furthermore, if games getting traded in a week after the fact is such an issue, game developers should be looking at ways to encourage people to hold onto their disks, without punishing second hand sales. Such as giving people discounts on DLC if they buy new.

Oh, and we can understand you. It's just that it requires little effort, and poor punctuation makes you look unintelligible

really it requires effort to see the little i's . You sure are sensitive aren't you. And either it makes me unintelligible or makes me look stupid, if this is going to be a grammar swinging match after all.

Look, I was in truth, only trying to be helpful. Nothing more, nothing less. However, I feel as though I may have touched upon a nerve here.

Regardless, if you want to actually look at my points, please, feel free to do so. I wasn't trying to make any point about your grammar.

you did what a lot of this forum does, which is incredibly immature i might add. And that is this part time grammar nazi behaviour. Posted along a selection of other arguments when people have run out of logical rebuttals. And it really only serves to derail threads.

Language is a tool that serves man, not the other way around. We do not exist to enforce its rules.

So yes i snapped at you with the rage meant for 100 comments like the one you made yourself. So far as my emotions i apologise but the point behind the rage still stands.

Immature? I'm sorry, but giving people a quick tip on how to bring their point across better is "Immature" now? And furthermore, for someone who admits to snapping in rage, you have the audacity to call me immature? Sorry, but that's too funny. And secondly, we were still having a debate. I posted other points. Which you continue to ignore.



Again, back on topic. The industry is still going strong. Publishers still turned a nice profit the last few years, even during a recession and these Evil used sales.

ok keep deluding yourself to it being a quick tip
it was a snide comment for the superiority you feel over people who choose not to type in your exact fashion.

As for the industry going well?
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/10/06/l-a-noire-developer-studio-to-close/
Whats that a AAA title that sold ok getting shut down, NAHH that can't be because the industries not hunky dory.
How about GRIN last year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRIN_(company)
Or bizzarre creations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeClyggNouo&feature=autoplay&list=ULNeBw_NB2EsE&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=1
pandemic perhaps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9rxBqRaiI&feature=BFa&list=ULdiGj47Z36UE&lf=mfu_in_order
black rock studio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJZat56QwI&feature=BFa&list=ULMFy9mnc8nOk&lf=mfu_in_order
bizzare creations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarre_Creations

Just because you don't pay attention does not mean these losses aren't happening.

It was intended to be helpful. If you're that mistrusting, I pity you. I really do.

Oh, and funny you should bring up studios being shut down. You know why those get shut down? Publishers. You know, the same people you're crusading for. Think about that. Furthermore, if studios are being shut down despite good sales, then it's not really the fault of sales, is it?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Wahtever.

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years. I don't know what it's like in the US, but where I live (Europe) the used sales market has grown substantially in the past 5 years. I honestly can't remember there being a substantial used sales market more than 5 years ago. Especially not as big as it has now become.

Either way, I stick to my point that if I have to choose who to give my money to, I'd rather choose the developer than some gamestore.

Well maybe used game sales would decrease if the fuckers stopped hiking up the price of new games. I refuse to pay $120+ for a video game. They were only $80-$100 a couple of years ago.

By those numbers I'm assuming you are Australian, like myself (or Kiwi, in which case add $15~). It is not the developers that are at fault for those prices, it is the retail stores. The stores order new games for around $50 (or whatever the price that gamestop would pay for games in the US) and sell them for $120 (double what the US stores sell them for) when our dollar is the same. If anything you should be wanting to smite the absurd prices of the aussie retail stores and support the developers instead.

Here are your options as an Australian consumer:
Buy game new for $120 (when it should be going for $60).
Buy game used for $110 (greedy store takes that entire $110 when they should be selling it for $53 like in the US)
Buy game online for $55, all of which goes to the developer and laugh about paying half what you would pay for it used (plus you have supported the industry).

Seriously check this store out http://www.ozgameshop.com/ or http://www.nzgameshop.com/ if you are a New Zealander.

RRP and List Price is set by the distributors in NZ, not the retailers.

Besides, most of our "evil" corporations are Australian Businesses. Its all your fault.

I also do believe NZ game shop ships stuff from the UK too, so locale DLC gets a bit screwy if you're into that.

 

[joeman098]

we should ban garage sales used car lots and thrift stores oh and antique stores to because they are all the same concept

 

[Something Amyss]

As for the industry going well?
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2011/10/06/l-a-noire-developer-studio-to-close/
Whats that a AAA title that sold ok getting shut down, NAHH that can't be because the industries not hunky dory.
How about GRIN last year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRIN_(company)
Or bizzarre creations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeClyggNouo&feature=autoplay&list=ULNeBw_NB2EsE&lf=mfu_in_order&playnext=1
pandemic perhaps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9rxBqRaiI&feature=BFa&list=ULdiGj47Z36UE&lf=mfu_in_order
black rock studio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoJZat56QwI&feature=BFa&list=ULMFy9mnc8nOk&lf=mfu_in_order
bizzare creations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizarre_Creations

Just because you don't pay attention does not mean these losses aren't happening.

Of course, the LA Noire studio had massive problems itself. Rockstar complained heavily about them and finally had to step in. It was even reported on this site.

Grin? Last two games were not well-received.

It's almost like, studios close if they don't do well.

But please, continue. You've actually gotten to the point where you're creating a conspiracy theory.

Bizarre? I loved Geometry Wars 1/2, but they got closed after lackluster sales of BLUR. That has less to do with used games or the industry doing bad as it did with it being a costly, but shitty game.

 

[razer17]

Yeah how stupid of me to spend my very limited cash on used games at a fraction of the cost. Especially since there are stores in the UK that do 2 for £20 or even 4 for £20, meaning I can get a lot of games cheap.

 

[Mordwyl]

Yes, because they're obviously taking people's used games for absolutely nothing in return.

 

[Ranorak]

Money of second hand sales actually DO go to the developer.
What do you think the gamestop uses the money they get from used sales for?
To buy more new copies of new games.

Gamestop doesn't get the copies from new games for free. They buy them off the publisher and sell them with a profit.
The publisher gets his money whether the actual number of games gets sold or not.
With the profit of second hand games, Gamestop can buy more titles and more numbers of games at once.

 

[MorphingDragon]

my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money.

By that kind of dodgy accounting they could also claim that it costs them money when people lend games for friends to play. Or have their friends around and let them play the game. A friend lent my brother Assassin's Creed II just recently; both my brother and I played it. Did we just cost Ubisoft two purchases?

no because you weren't paying money to do so, people buying used ARE. And yeah im behind content creators getting money for what they make.

So by your logic it's okay (moral issues aside) to pirate the game because I won't be be spending any money to play the game. Can you spot the fallacy here?

nope. Your not spending money either way. Sure piracy is illegal and you will get roshambo'd for that. But people who pirate EVERYTHING probably weren't going to be a consumer in the first place. I long ago gave up arguing against them because their thieves and theres no rationalizing with them.

Compared to a consumer trying to save a few bucks by giving money to people who have nothing to do with the game. Which is a shame because in doing the decent thing and paying they payed the wrong people, and if more people actually bought first hand the industry would be much healthier, and more risky titles would be being made.

Which is a shame in my eyes.

But by all means you go ahead and save your 5 bucks and watch developers fail. Hope that will be fun for you.

Oh, knock off the superiority act. Buying games new doesn't put you on a moral high ground. I've bought 8 new games this year and 1 used. I have a friend that is basically the opposite. Guess what? I'm not better than him. Having more money=/=better person.

its not about having more money
its about spending the money the right way. I often spend a bit more for local producers to survive by not having something luxury around the home. Its all about how you spend the money you have. What you chose to do with it defines how much you care.

Being vague is almost as much fun as this other thing...

i apologise for choosing not to share my spending habits with escapist. You must be mortified.

You make an argument yet give nobody the means to actually argue back.

That isn't arguing, its trolling.

Surely the means to argue back would be a fault in my logic, or an issue with a viewpoint i had raised.

In generally when trying to prove a point you don't leave chinks in your armour, it tends to leave your point weaker.

Surely the weight of any argument lays on the person stating a point then the person trying to refute it.

Ambiguity is a cheap trick. It leads people to making assumptions that you can pick apart and make them lose, instead of arguing your points cleary and let them go under the process of critical thought.

 

[Something Amyss]

Furthermore, if studios are being shut down despite good sales, then it's not really the fault of sales, is it?

Except most of those companies were recent failures. Grin with Bionic Commando and Terminator Salvation, the former considered a "flop." The latter only selling somewhat better.

Bizarre with Blur.

I already covered LA Noir's development, so I won't go there again.

But there is a certain epidemic within the industry. the corporate drive for profit increase is leading to new ways to make more money. It's the only way to keep those stock reports looking impressive. That means trimming devs for a single failure. It also means that games need to do more than okay to merit continuation.

Which does go back to the point you were arguing against. The notion of something being wrong to merit these closures.

Well, the corporations are posting record profits. They're suffering all the way to the bank. The money that would have gone to development is more and more going to CEOs and shareholders.

But it's easier to blame used game sales.

 

[Vibhor]

Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire, deus ex or resistance 3 for 53$? Remember that not a single penny goes to the developers and you're only making gamestop richer.

Developers don't get a lot of money from the sale any ways. They may get like 10% in royalties(not sure really) but majority of the cash goes to the publishers who are already millionaires. I'd rather support a shop that has helped me more than that greedy publisher who thinks that every customer is a thief.

 

[TitanAtlas]

I buy from retail stores and do not regret a thing... you know what ive found? Timsplitters and metal gear solid a dollar each...

And not from a game retail store, i mean a store like a pawn shop or whatever that was...

I do not regret a thing cuz (1) i cannot find those game anywere, (2) i do not trust with my credit or personnal info on internet so i can't buy them at online stores and (3) cheaper then a goddam game store...

I even bought bioshock 4 days after it came out for 1/4 th of the price...

Feel sorry for the developers, yes, but if i regret doing it? No...

 

[Red-Link]

On point 4) May I introduce you to the used-music store? Walk right in and find CD's, cassettes, vinyls, and what have you all for the low-low price of less than new.

NO! ONLY ITUNES EXISTS! DONT YOU KNOW ANYTHING LOLOLOL

Seriously, though, most of these arguments are based on selectively ignoring things.

Like music stores. Though that one qwas particularly glaring.

Thank you very much for two things. First, thanks for proving to me that I'm not crazy and that non-digital media might actually exist outside of my own fantasy land. I was a bit worried for a bit there, after all, the arguments being presented were just so... air-tight is what I want to say, but I can't bring myself to do it, the sarcasm would color my mood for the rest of the day. Therefore, being serious, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that there were some glaring (because you picked the perfect word) holes in the argument.

Second, thank you for not quoting the whole thing, now I have a shorter version to quote if a response crops up (seeing as this guy likes to respond to people). I noticed mine was kind of long, but I'm too lazy to edit it to a shorter form.

 

[Zeriah]

Wahtever.

Annnnnnd that's how the First Sale Doctrine works. Look it up. No other form of media needs money when it comes to second hand sales in order to survive. In fact, how has gaming got this far, considering we've had second hand sales from the word-go, if they are such a problem?

Well, it may just be me but I have a feeling the second hand game sales has definitely grown in the past couple of years. I don't know what it's like in the US, but where I live (Europe) the used sales market has grown substantially in the past 5 years. I honestly can't remember there being a substantial used sales market more than 5 years ago. Especially not as big as it has now become.

Either way, I stick to my point that if I have to choose who to give my money to, I'd rather choose the developer than some gamestore.

Well maybe used game sales would decrease if the fuckers stopped hiking up the price of new games. I refuse to pay $120+ for a video game. They were only $80-$100 a couple of years ago.

By those numbers I'm assuming you are Australian, like myself (or Kiwi, in which case add $15~). It is not the developers that are at fault for those prices, it is the retail stores. The stores order new games for around $50 (or whatever the price that gamestop would pay for games in the US) and sell them for $120 (double what the US stores sell them for) when our dollar is the same. If anything you should be wanting to smite the absurd prices of the aussie retail stores and support the developers instead.

Here are your options as an Australian consumer:
Buy game new for $120 (when it should be going for $60).
Buy game used for $110 (greedy store takes that entire $110 when they should be selling it for $53 like in the US)
Buy game online for $55, all of which goes to the developer and laugh about paying half what you would pay for it used (plus you have supported the industry).

Seriously check this store out http://www.ozgameshop.com/ or http://www.nzgameshop.com/ if you are a New Zealander.

RRP and List Price is set by the publishers.

Are you certain of this? I've seen some retail stores commonly sell the exact same game as EB for $30 less, sometimes even with new games. I mean I know it's RRP but brand new electronic media very rarely go for that much less in one store than another. It is rather common to see Big W sell new games for $80-90 and EB sell them for $120. Either Big W losses $30 on each game or their suppliers sell the games to them for far less than they would have you believe.

Regardless the actual retail prices are based on their suppliers prices, not the RRP. Why would they purchase from a supplier charging them $80 or whatever amount a $120 retail price warrants when they could purchase from a supplier that sells them for $40?

Either way check out those links, it basically doubled the amount of games I can afford to purchase and I support the industry .

Edit just saw your edit: DLC is very rarely region locked, at least on the 360. I've bought tons of games from ozgameshop and never had any problems with DLC. Where you will get issues is when a games multiplayer will lock you into a specific region (will only let you play against European PAL users) so you will have an immense ping. But that is also very rare and can be found with 5 minutes of research.