buying used games is stupid

[Xanadu84]

Buying used games is not stupid. It is cheaper and functionally identical to buying new. It is rational, but it is Prisoners Dilemma rational. Ultimately, it will hurt the medium in the long run, but from the perspective of the individual, its the best choice.

Whats stupid is that too many people oppose measures that cut developers in on the secondary market because they don't understand how money works. Lots of abstract idealism and irrelevant metaphors, zero mathematical facts.

 

[Something Amyss]

Money of second hand sales actually DO go to the developer.
What do you think the gamestop uses the money they get from used sales for?
To buy more new copies of new games.

Gamestop doesn't get the copies from new games for free. They buy them off the publisher and sell them with a profit.
The publisher gets his money whether the actual number of games gets sold or not.
With the profit of second hand games, Gamestop can buy more titles and more numbers of games at once.

Not to mention, the prevalence of trade-in specials demonstrates there's something to this business model. People are trading in old games to get new ones.

BUT I would also point out, the markup on new games is pretty low. The games industry has actually created an environment where it doesn't make sense to carry games, for the most part. Games are more or less a toxic asset unless you operate in a "loss leader" format. Wal-Mart, for example, uses that small markup to get you in the store to buy other stuff.

Gamestop uses it to get you in the store to buy used games and accessories. Even accessories aren't great business.

Spiting used game sales is really just spiting the industry in general, because the seller's market would shrink phenomenally without them.

Love it or hate it, it's a natural part of the cycle as long as the game companies want to continue to take such a large piece of the pie on each new sale.

 

[tehroc]

In that case why not stop buying all the time? If you know your just going to burn through a game in a few weeks and trade it in, why not just rent the game over the month through one of the rental services available?

 

[Red-Link]

my point is the fact that they could've had 1 million extra sales, but lost those to the used market. It was simply an example of how the used market is costing devs a lot of money.

By that kind of dodgy accounting they could also claim that it costs them money when people lend games for friends to play. Or have their friends around and let them play the game. A friend lent my brother Assassin's Creed II just recently; both my brother and I played it. Did we just cost Ubisoft two purchases?

no because you weren't paying money to do so, people buying used ARE. And yeah im behind content creators getting money for what they make.

So by your logic it's okay (moral issues aside) to pirate the game because I won't be be spending any money to play the game. Can you spot the fallacy here?

nope. Your not spending money either way. Sure piracy is illegal and you will get roshambo'd for that. But people who pirate EVERYTHING probably weren't going to be a consumer in the first place. I long ago gave up arguing against them because their thieves and theres no rationalizing with them.

Compared to a consumer trying to save a few bucks by giving money to people who have nothing to do with the game. Which is a shame because in doing the decent thing and paying they payed the wrong people, and if more people actually bought first hand the industry would be much healthier, and more risky titles would be being made.

Which is a shame in my eyes.

But by all means you go ahead and save your 5 bucks and watch developers fail. Hope that will be fun for you.

Oh, knock off the superiority act. Buying games new doesn't put you on a moral high ground. I've bought 8 new games this year and 1 used. I have a friend that is basically the opposite. Guess what? I'm not better than him. Having more money=/=better person.

its not about having more money
its about spending the money the right way. I often spend a bit more for local producers to survive by not having something luxury around the home. Its all about how you spend the money you have. What you chose to do with it defines how much you care.

Being vague is almost as much fun as this other thing...

i apologise for choosing not to share my spending habits with escapist. You must be mortified.

You make an argument yet give nobody the means to actually argue back.

That isn't arguing, its trolling.

Surely the means to argue back would be a fault in my logic, or an issue with a viewpoint i had raised.

In generally when trying to prove a point you don't leave chinks in your armour, it tends to leave your point weaker.

Surely the weight of any argument lays on the person stating a point then the person trying to refute it.

Ambiguity is a cheap trick. It leads people to making assumptions that you can pick apart and make them lose, instead of arguing your points cleary and let them go under the process of critical thought.

Also, in a proper debate, it's proper form to note those very chinks in one's armor. For an argument to be persuasive, one must admit to fallibility. It's the Toulmin Model of Argument. Therefore, not only does ambiguity count as cheating in a friendly debate, it counts as losing in a formal meet. Thank you college. I knew I was paying all that money for something, and winning petty arguments on Internet forums must be it!

 

[Rodrigo Girao]

It's kinda stupid to spend $55 on a game you can get new for $60.

It's perfectly reasonable to spend either $5 or $500, depending on rarity, on a game you just can not get new any longer.

Mind you, if publishers find a way to hinder the former, they will hinder the latter as well. And that's unacceptable.

 

[Zyntoxic]

hm, in my experience the used copies are barely cheaper than the unused copies if you buy them at the same store.
it's funny, about a week ago I bought Dragon Age II for the 360, I dispised the game but wanted to try it on a 360 so I thought I might just as well buy it used so bioware don't get any money telling them it was a good game (a drop in the ocean I know, but every sale is required to make a game a best seller) so I went to gamestop and looked at the price, 299 SEK (44,26 USD) a new copy at gamestop costs 400 SEK (49,20 USD) I shook my head and left, at another store that in stockholm I'd say is way bigger than any gamestop in stockholm, I went to see their price, they do not sell used copies but they sold new copies of the signature edition with additional content for 199 SEK (29,45 USD)

so I bought the new copy from this other store, because in the end I dislike what gamestop does more than I dislike the games of bioware.
besides I enjoyed DAII alot more on console than I did on the PC.

this has often been the case with many of the games I've bought, I get new copies cheaper than I get used copies from gamestop.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I tend to buy stuff new/preorder it but only with games I'm sure I'll like.
The number of new games I buy each year is dwindling pretty massively though.

Eg this year all I've bought is Minecraft, a new version of oblivion (had it on console before) and possibly fable 3. But I sold f3 back again.

Anyways I don't really care about saving a couple of bucks when I'm only purchasing a new game every few months.
As for CDs I tend to hunt out the best possible offers 'cos I get tonnes of em.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

SOMEONE hasn't been watching Jimquisition.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4568-Online-Passes-Are-Bad-For-Everybody

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4720-Used-Games-Have-A-Right-To-Exist

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4745-Fighting-The-Problem-Of-Used-Games

His online persona's a bit of a dick (the Jimquisition one, not the online forum one), but he DOES bring up some good points about Used Games that I hadn't really considered until he brought them up. They aren't some kind of evil force that's putting competitors out of business; they're actually fairly harmless, and most of the damage just comes from publishers trying to circumvent damage that isn't even there.

 

[dickywebster]

Well i buy used games and i have a fairly large game collection, over 220 at last count, so what was the argument again?
I do trade in games, but its usually ones i dont really enjoy enough to keep, which i think has been 4 games in the last 6 years or so.

As for them been stupid, i couldnt get the old classics i couldnt afford when i was younger if you couldnt buy used games and i would have a much smaller collection as most of my games are second hand been a heck of a lot cheaper than the new games.
If i couldnt buy used games, then considering i only have a part time job atm with the economy and all and games been my only real hobby, id probably be able to buy maybe a half dozen games a year and go and find me 6 gd games that you can play for say 15 hours a week for 2 months?
Ok yes i do play my older games a lot too, but itd limit the chances of me getting old games and a lot of the new games im interested in. I really dont see why people are so against used games, unless they have no problems with money and can buy all the new games they like at full price, which most people i know couldnt do if they wanted too.

 

[bauke67]

How about buying them online ánd second-hand, now that'll save you some money.

 

[Sectan]

This just in: If a developer doesn't make a game that an individual wants to keep, it's not the individual's fault if they want to sell it. If a game is good people will keep it and keep playing it.

 

[Iwata]

This just in: If a developer doesn't make a game that an individual wants to keep, it's not the individual's fault if they want to sell it. If a game is good people will keep it and keep playing it.

Absolutely. I don't sign a contract saying I have to keep the game when I buy it. If I want to sell it back for whatever reason, I'm more than entitled to do it, and it's good that the industry has a mechanism that lets me trade it back in for more games, rather than me selling it to a friend or some pawn store.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

You mean buying new is stupid, over priced disposable entertainment is not worth the asking price 80% of the time.

Also I can't afford a 60$ game but I can get acouple games for 10-20$ a pop, they be a few months old but worth the cost, hell the way wholesale works you can buy new at used prices in less than half a year sometimes so all in all the game item has already made all the profit for the IP owner it can possibly get.

Most games are bought new and used games take less than 25% of new sales.

We have a right to resell consumable IP's tho I would not mind a 10% tax on used IP sale, digital storage items and the internet then expand fair use as so we go back to a time before the IP act of 96 as well as seek to protect the non profit attempting posting/distribution of IP items.

 

[Xanthious]

Kids nowadays don't like to keep their games and build a collection, they game, sell and trade games on a regular basis. Shops like gamestop are taking advantage of this circular cycle to rip off the costumer. Charging 50$ multiple times on a single copy.

Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire, deus ex or resistance 3 for 53$? Remember that not a single penny goes to the developers and you're only making gamestop richer.

You guys have several options that are better, imo, like Amazon or other on-line shops. For example European consumers can go to Amazon.co.uk a buy deus ex for 15,99 pounds, that's 25 dollars!
The limited edition of dark souls costs 43?, any physical shop near me wont sell it for less than 60/70?(new or used).

And I'm sure that, regardless of what country you live in, you can find better and more economic solutions on-line.

I think that used games can be a good thing, for example I just bought msg2 and msg3 for 15?, but when it comes to recent ip's I think you should search for options that not only benefit your wallet but also contribute to the industry.

but if you prefer to spend 50 dollars on a used game, that's up to you.
whatever floats your boat...

At least here stateside the reason people buy used is beacuse Gamestop has a seven day (14 in some areas) no questions asked return policy. You know what I get with a new game? I get the pleasure of having fuck all for options if I buy a game and it happens to suck out loud.

So consider this. I want to buy, lets say Battlefield 3, a week after release. I have two options, new for 60 or used for 55. I get it home and decide it's absolute tripe. Now if I bought it new I could take it back to Gamestop and get 30 or so dollars in store credit. However, if I bought it used I can take it back to Gamestop and get a full refund of either my money back or store credit. So you tell me, what is the better deal, paying five bucks more and choosing between taking a 50% loss on my investment or being stuck with a bad game OR saving five bucks and having the peace of mind that if the game if garbage I am free to return it for a full refund? Doesn't seem like a tough choice to me.

Another example. Lets say I want to play a single player game that most people can get through over the course of a weekend. My options are buy it new for 60 and be stuck with it or buy it used for 55 and know that if I blow through it I can take it back essentially playing it for free. Hell if your an unscrupulous person you can juggle used titles for fucking eternity playing a new game every week for a one time 55 dollar investment thanks to the Gamestop return policy.

Bottom line is the developer, publisher, and everyone in between can go find a barrel of sharp sticks and take turns buggering each other with them for all I care about how much money they see when I buy a game. I buy games based on the value I get out of them and used games are a better value because I am guaranteed to either get a quality title or get a full refund. New titles are a 60 dollar gamble that I'm not looking to take when there is a vastly superior option available.

 

[Thaius]

Come back when you have more reasons against used games than, "You support Gamestop." It's not some evil corporation looking to destroy game developers, and that simply isn't a compelling reason not to save money.

As for better options... not really. Equal sometimes, sure, but I have yet to see someplace that consistently offers as good prices, deals, and sales. Stop whining.

 

[geK0]

Judging from the reactions here I'm almost afraid to say it, but I agree with the original poster.

I mean, seriously; games have always been expensive. So claiming that new games are expensive these days is nothing new.

Second, having worked in a gamestore, I know exactly how much money they make on second hand games. And trust me when I say that they make a lot of money on used sales. As a consumer, however, you're getting cheated out of money on every turn. New games were traded in for about 30 to 40 euro's (about half of their original value) while they were placed on the shelve for 50 or, more often, 55. That's a major profit right there and the developer won't see a single penny of it. You may like the gamestore, but I assume you like the developers more, don't you?

My problem with used games sales is not gamers trading or selling their games amongst each other, as this is relatively low scale and is less likely to impact developers the way used sales by gameshops are currently damaging developers. Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain lost between 5 and 10 million euro's to used sales (ref: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-12-used-market-cost-heavy-rain-1m-sales). Seriously, think about it. That's a huge loss and in the end it will only bite us gamers in the butt as the smaller devs won't be able to overcome these losses.

When it comes to old games I can imagine making an exception, since those are almost impossible to come by. But seriously; buying a game used when the new alternative is still in store but only 5 or 10 bucks cheaper? I'd rather know those 5 bucks go to the developer, instead of 30 of them being wasted on a store.

The thing is that, while they're making a large profit per unit, they still have a surplus of used games which wont be bought until they're in the bargain bin (and still many will be left over).

If they weren't making a reasonable profit on used games, it just wouldn't be worth the shelf space or the initial investment in buying the game from the customer.

Im surprised though that they're only adding that much mark-up though; the game stores near me will offer either $5-$10 or $20 off the purchase of a new title, then they'll mark it up to $30-$40. I prefer to keep my old games personally.

 

[spartan231490]

Kids nowadays don't like to keep their games and build a collection, they game, sell and trade games on a regular basis. Shops like gamestop are taking advantage of this circular cycle to rip off the costumer. Charging 50$ multiple times on a single copy.

Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire, deus ex or resistance 3 for 53$? Remember that not a single penny goes to the developers and you're only making gamestop richer.

You guys have several options that are better, imo, like Amazon or other on-line shops. For example European consumers can go to Amazon.co.uk a buy deus ex for 15,99 pounds, that's 25 dollars!
The limited edition of dark souls costs 43?, any physical shop near me wont sell it for less than 60/70?(new or used).

And I'm sure that, regardless of what country you live in, you can find better and more economic solutions on-line.

I think that used games can be a good thing, for example I just bought msg2 and msg3 for 15?, but when it comes to recent ip's I think you should search for options that not only benefit your wallet but also contribute to the industry.

but if you prefer to spend 50 dollars on a used game, that's up to you.
whatever floats your boat...

As gamestop allows me to buy games easily and also allows me to buy games for cheap, I have every reason to buy used games for $53 You also forget the most important factor of gamestop. You pay for the convenience of being able to buy a game and go home and play it. Not spending a large sum of money just to wait for a week before you can play your game. Also, used games at gamestop are usually comparable in price to online. The only real exception is very recent games, at least in my experience.

 

[Tyrant T100]

"Is it really worth buying a used copy of la noire"

Yes I bought it just yesterday, it's still £40 in every store and I got a second hand copy for £22 that was in perfect condition with the dlc content still unactivated.

 

[DPeteD]

I quess you wouldnt like the fact I pirate a good few games. (= (i kid i kid)

 

[zombieshark6666]

No, selling / buying them from retailers is stupid, an important distinction people seem to forget.

How do I thumb this up?