Call of Duty Community Not Misogynistic, Says Sledgehammer Co-Founder

[Phasmal]

I'm going to ignore the knee-jerk reactions here, because really they're just a bit embarrassing, and focus on something else.

Regardless of whether or not you personally think the CoD community is misogynistic or not, we all know what it's like. We all know it generally IS a hostile and toxic environment to a lot of people. And honestly, I'd rather hear the people responsible for the game coming up with new ways to tackle the problem rather than denying one exists.

I have no doubt that there are polite, thoughtful CoD players, the sad thing is they are vastly overshadowed by fucktards.
I think not enough games are trying to tackle toxic behaviour in their multiplayer games seriously enough.

I enjoyed the Extra Credits video on this subject, where they did suggest things that could help, such as auto-muting or having to earn voice chat.

I like playing online, and I like using my microphone, but my voice earns a lot of hostility at unpredictable times, so it's not usually worth it.

 

[kommando367]

That is funniest thing I've heard all week. Oh man, I needed that.

 

[wulf3n]

I have no doubt that there are polite, thoughtful CoD players, the sad thing is they are vastly overshadowed by fucktards.

Overshadowed perhaps but not outnumbered.

The problem isn't inherently with the CoD community, if it can so be called, but instead lies almost entirely on the automatching/no dedicated server BS that plagues modern online shooters.

Back in my CoD4 days there were 12 servers I would frequent. The majority of which were moderated with a strict code of conduct (some so strict that even abbreviated abuse like fk off would get you kicked) that were diligently enforced. The others were pretty good at policing themselves.

Now those were communities, not the random collection of people forced into same place that it is now.

 

[Kargathia]

The heart of the matter is.. are they Mysogynists or just assholes... the two sets do frequently overlap but it it just as possible to belong to one without the other.

My ongoing point has been that the ones that are pointed to are not Mysogynists but just assholes ... and like most assholes and bullies they are more apt to target those that will give them the response they desire... women seem to be easy targets for them WHy? Not sure, but it has been shown that these individuals aren't picky they will target anyone ... of course most sensible people simply just mute the bastards and get on with the game...

On the other hand there's the fact that we simply take more note of assholes than regular people or nice people... I've played many mobas and online games and most folks are ... decent people... So yeah.. no big surprise here.

Pretty much exactly the point I was going to make, except that I'm not entirely sure. Women do seem to get picked on because they're considered "special" by the ones most likely to be abusive little dipshits.
Does that constitute mysogyny, or the general playground instinct of bullying anyone who stands out?

Does it matter? If labelling it as such is the best course of action when trying to actually get something done about what seems to be a pretty systemic problem (internet bullying of anyone you disagree with), then why should we complain?

I'd like to add to this that i personally think that the tiny percent that are toxic are most likely acting the way they act more out of attention-seeking or out of a desire to troll, or just basic sadism, not really out of any legitimate hatred of women. I think they'd shit-talk anything at all if they thought it would upset the people they're trying to upset. If that makes any sense.

I... don't think that makes it any better. Like it doesn't matter if Westboro Baptist legitimately believes that IEDs are god's judgement on US soldiers, or if they're just lawsuit-baiting. It's still putrid.

... at least most of the Christian right doesn't actively try to defend WBC. I mean, silence kinda sucks, but it's better than the backlash that a lot of gamers show whenever someone mentions our crazy fringe.

Not defending this behaviour, but a lot of that might stem from wording. The WBC catches flak for being the WBC. When gaming trolls get blamed, they're just considered "gamers" for all intents and purposes, which would be somewhat analogous for referring to WBC as "christians" every time they go and picket some funeral.

The whole thing is pretty much comparable to the vast majority of muslems, who aren't exactly happy their religion is mostly associated with extremist fuckwits. (At least, in the western hemisphere). Difference is mostly a matter of scale, and the weird situation that nearly everyone plays games, and few of them consider themselves gamers.

 

[Abomination]

Who do you notice first, the 99 villagers going about their daily business or the one town loon ringing a bell and fucking Farmer Paul's goat?

What will you remember the most?

Welcome to the CoD community and the ire it earns.

97 of those villagers know that the loony goat-fucker will continue being loony, continue ringing his bell and continue to fuck goats no matter how much they protest. In fact they know that if they do protest he GETS OFF ON IT MORE.

Then there are 2 others who think because there's a loony bell-ringing goat-fucker the entire village must be full of them.

 

[major_chaos]

He isn't wrong. I used to play CoD, Halo, and Gears religiously on 360 and a minuscule portion of the people I encountered were actually problematic. People saying the online community is a cesspit reeks of confirmation bias, and to use something I learned about from a recent escapist article "The Von Restorff Effect".

 

[Tradjus]

I'd link the J.Jonah Jameson "You're serious?!" laugh video here if I could, as it is incredibly appropriate, but I can't find a good one on Youtube.

 

[Denamic]

CoD's community is worse than even dota 2's by an order of magnitude. That must mean dota 2's community cures cancer with pure benevolence.

 

[elvor0]

Snip

Yeah...you didn't read the article. Because you know who the article said accused Call of Duty fans of being misogynistic?

NO ONE!

So I'm not replying to what you said here, because it's talking at length about something that didn't happen.

I'd say it was safe to assume /someone/ or some collective of people did, otherwise why would he be defending them? Paranoia?

The BBC article that is is the source, leads into the quote from Condrey on the back of talking about the "muh-sog-iny" sorrounding Zoe Quinn. I think that's a pretty safe lead in to assume that someone is accusing the CoD community of mysoginy, either directly or via guilt by assosiation.

Also I can't find this "Apparently not misogynistic" in the title. Really you seem to be pulling things to be upset about out of thin air.

Call of Duty Online Community Not Misogynistic According to Sledgehammer Games Co-Founder

is the title of the article, yeah it's not got "apparently" in there but stil, acting if it doesn't exist at all; why?

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

That's the key word there. Assume. He's assuming that someone said it. And even if someone did, without knowing who or why, he's shooting accusations off into thin air.

The wording in your last statement is rather confusing. A few too many "it"s.

 

[josemlopes]

Is it hard to realise that everyone is an asshole and in a competitive online game that shows a lot more?
Is there really any need to try to label an entire community (that is basicly the same as most online communities) to see if they are for or against something rather specific like misogyny.

 

[Phasmal]

I have no doubt that there are polite, thoughtful CoD players, the sad thing is they are vastly overshadowed by fucktards.

Overshadowed perhaps but not outnumbered.

The problem isn't inherently with the CoD community, if it can so be called, but instead lies almost entirely on the automatching/no dedicated server BS that plagues modern online shooters.

Back in my CoD4 days there were 12 servers I would frequent. The majority of which were moderated with a strict code of conduct (some so strict that even abbreviated abuse like fk off would get you kicked) that were diligently enforced. The others were pretty good at policing themselves.

Now those were communities, not the random collection of people forced into same place that it is now.

Yes, I know they're not outnumbered.

I know what you mean about being able to choose servers that are good for you, like when I used to play things like TTT on Garry'sMod, I had a few servers marked as `safe` for voice chat, with good admins. I certainly wouldn't go randomly into any server.

Still, these are the systems they're making us use now, so I feel like they are responsible for dealing with the shit that comes with it. I don't think anybody gains anything by sticking our collective heads in the sand about it.

 

[P-89 Scorpion]

I'd like to add to this that i personally think that the tiny percent that are toxic are most likely acting the way they act more out of attention-seeking or out of a desire to troll, or just basic sadism, not really out of any legitimate hatred of women. I think they'd shit-talk anything at all if they thought it would upset the people they're trying to upset. If that makes any sense.

I... don't think that makes it any better. Like it doesn't matter if Westboro Baptist legitimately believes that IEDs are god's judgement on US soldiers, or if they're just lawsuit-baiting. It's still putrid.

... at least most of the Christian right doesn't actively try to defend WBC. I mean, silence kinda sucks, but it's better than the backlash that a lot of gamers show whenever someone mentions our crazy fringe.

Except people don't say that because Westboro Baptist is putrid all Christians are putrid and are responsible.

More people buy and play CoD every year than the population of Australia a tiny minority are toxic attack them don't just say "you bought CoD so your a woman beater" (get enough of that from moviebob's shows).

 

[LostCrusader]

Well if he has stopped with the CoD community is probably like any other game's community, I would be on board. Honestly, the greatest thing the xbox 360 did (and I really wish some pc games would do this too) was to let you disable all voice chat.

 

[Lightknight]

I wouldn't know, I hit the group mute button so fast my manboobs jiggle a bit. Used to pride myself on how fast I could mute a lobby until they finally implemented the one button to mute them all option. Some day, I hope to see a permanent mute option rather than having to do it every stinking time during the first game I play.

My wife hasn't mentioned any issues with the community though. She liked those alien invasion games of Ghosts and teamed up with several groups of the COD community for co-op. She never noted any issues and I think she would have.

But I'm guessing people will eventually realize that the scenarios that get reported on aren't the hundreds of times things go well. It'll only be the times where something bad happens.

 

[VladG]

You know, I've been playing the new CoD on PC since it came out (reached level 50 so quite a few matches played) and yet I have not once seen someone be a total prick, or even insult someone else past the usual "camper, hacker, noob". I am fully aware that it happens.. but it seems like a VERY small number of people do that. Most really do seem to be ok.

And yet when you talk about the CoD community all you hear is how awful it is. Is the console ecosystem really that toxic?

 

[Lightknight]

You know, I've been playing the new CoD on PC since it came out (reached level 50 so quite a few matches played) and yet I have not once seen someone be a total prick, or even insult someone else past the usual "camper, hacker, noob". Is the console ecosystem really this bad?

Nope, news only reports on the extremes and people only complain when something actually happens.

If you played a 1,000 games and never had an incident, no one would hear about it. 1 game with incident and suddenly it's worth talking about.

 

[VladG]

You know, I've been playing the new CoD on PC since it came out (reached level 50 so quite a few matches played) and yet I have not once seen someone be a total prick, or even insult someone else past the usual "camper, hacker, noob". Is the console ecosystem really this bad?

Nope, news only reports on the extremes and people only complain when something actually happens.

If you played a 1,000 games and never had an incident, no one would hear about it. 1 game with incident and suddenly it's worth talking about.

I shouldn't be surprised, really. But CoD is such a popular target and all you ever hear about it is how toxic EVERYONE is, I had to ask.

 

[Gorrath]

I'd like to add to this that i personally think that the tiny percent that are toxic are most likely acting the way they act more out of attention-seeking or out of a desire to troll, or just basic sadism, not really out of any legitimate hatred of women. I think they'd shit-talk anything at all if they thought it would upset the people they're trying to upset. If that makes any sense.

I... don't think that makes it any better. Like it doesn't matter if Westboro Baptist legitimately believes that IEDs are god's judgement on US soldiers, or if they're just lawsuit-baiting. It's still putrid.

... at least most of the Christian right doesn't actively try to defend WBC. I mean, silence kinda sucks, but it's better than the backlash that a lot of gamers show whenever someone mentions our crazy fringe.

I think this is an unfair characterization of either the christian or gamer communities response to these issues. Many christians and christian organizations have ourtright condemned WBC. I'm an atheist myself, so I'm not just saying that to defend the christian religious community. But the gaming community is actually on even higher ground than that because most of the condemnation of the toxic gamers in the gaming community comes from other gamers whereas most of the original condemnation of WBC had to come from outsid emedia sources. Gamers have been banging on about the toxic elements of our own culture since online lobbies were a thing.

Much like the WBC and other christians, gamers tend to stress two points. A. the toxic assholes are toxic assholes and B. they don't make up any kind of majority and are simply know because they are loud. Making claim B does not undermine claim A and is not a defense of the toxic element, it is simply a reaction to the idea that the toxic element is somehow a majority or representative of the community at large. It is a perfectly fair point to make.

 

[JarinArenos]

I'd like to add to this that i personally think that the tiny percent that are toxic are most likely acting the way they act more out of attention-seeking or out of a desire to troll, or just basic sadism, not really out of any legitimate hatred of women. I think they'd shit-talk anything at all if they thought it would upset the people they're trying to upset. If that makes any sense.

I... don't think that makes it any better. Like it doesn't matter if Westboro Baptist legitimately believes that IEDs are god's judgement on US soldiers, or if they're just lawsuit-baiting. It's still putrid.

... at least most of the Christian right doesn't actively try to defend WBC. I mean, silence kinda sucks, but it's better than the backlash that a lot of gamers show whenever someone mentions our crazy fringe.

Except people don't say that because Westboro Baptist is putrid all Christians are putrid and are responsible.

More people buy and play CoD every year than the population of Australia a tiny minority are toxic attack them don't just say "you bought CoD so your a woman beater" (get enough of that from moviebob's shows).

I can and do say that the fact that there's no real outcry against them, or that their only counter-protesting is handled by gay rights groups and non-christians, reflects negatively on the US christian community in general. And that's a far FAR smaller fringe. I'm not saying that the average Christian is anything like the WBC, you should note. I'm saying that the silence from the other side gives the impression that more people agree with them than actually do, and emboldens them (not that they likely need it).

The thing that people around here need to do is take a step back and realize there's a universe of difference between "this is problematic" and "this is how all gamers act" because I've seen literally nobody claim the latter, but I see people claiming this is claimed (your comment being a good example) all the time. For instance, as crazy as Bob can get, he's never once called someone a woman beater, or even a bad person of any sort, simply for buying or playing CoD, or any other game.