Can Americans Make Anime?

[acosn]

Once you drop stupid arguments that can't work their heads around the distinction between a pedantic argument of locality and just the style the reason why the US doesn't make anime falls into two reasons.

1: Marketing.

More than anything else Americans don't really accept, or rather, no one up top has ever decided that cartoons can be anything beyond children's shows and comedy. At best what you see is a show or movie that hits the audience at a lot of different levels and says a lot of different things to different people. EG: Pixar movies, Avatar: Legend of Korra. But even a show as popular as Avatar only got booked for a single season, and even Pixar is falling into the meta-motions of a creatively tapped studio.

2: The fan base.

Anime's its own worst enemy. Outside of Japan most of the folks who actually watch anime do so over the internet through free streaming sites, and even if everyone went through legal channels it still wouldn't really put food on the proverbial table. Folks really take it for granted that classics like Cowboy Beebop and even the more spectacle driven shows like Evangellion and FLCL were somewhere in between genius and accident. Beebop was supposed to be a kid's show that ended up in airing limbo while the network tried to figure out how the hell they were supposed to pitch it. Evangellion was a censorship nightmare, and it's director had to go on prosac. Not so much in the case of Eva, but for Beebop the only reason it really grew beyond small cult classic is simply because of foreign interest. And you see it elsewhere- Big O and Ghost in the Shell : SAC only lasted as long as they did because of Adult Swim.

 

[MrMunchies]

(This is a subjective text based on my relation with so called "animes" and might be out of context to some degree; it's 3:15am, sorry)

What we should ask ourselves is : Is it a good SHOW? or a bad SHOW?

Avatar - The last airbender was an epic show. Enjoyed the hell out of it. BTW <3 TOPH! Best Character. But I digress.

Legend of Korra was a really, really good show. Animation was great, voices: fantastic. Story Ark : It was interesting because it had similarities with what is going on IRL.

Also, side-note: they had me at steampunk.

Of course, It missed out on some character-related aspects, the Ending was indeed rushed ; I was expecting a kind of "To be Continued" ending with Amon still the main villain for the 2nd Season. I guess after a three season fight against the Fire Nation, A one season story ark kinda felt poor to me.

But they were both great, great SHOWS.

They were better, in some respect, than some more "traditional" cartoon(blasphemy, he didn't use the correct word).
Perfect example : Naruto ; which drags on and on and on. I've been watching it regulary. But every now and then I had to skip ahead, because the narration was just excruciating. Episodes of recalls, flashbacks, where there is no character development, no fight, no nothing. Just stuff that I've seen seasons ago. Or the character meets his opponents "du jour" and proceed to get freezed just before the fight. "Oh you wanted a fight today? Sorry, you can't have that. Here take our recycled animations with fancy filters on it.That'll do it." If I have to skip episodes of a show, maybe that's an indication that there is something wrong.
(I have given up on this cartoon)

Bleach had also problems in how it managed it's timeline. There were complete story arks that I skipped simply because they weren't relevant of the main storyline(and of my interest). But they were easy skips and I could carry on with my viewing without missing important stuff.

I realize these two are heavily commercialized "animes". So there had to be fillers every once in a while. But still annoying.

But, except if I missed any, Legend of Korra AND Avatar didn't suffer this cheap filler syndrome, even if it is fairly commecialized. I felt like there was structure behind all of it. If it ever had flashback. It was because we didn't knew these details. (Tarrlock's relation to Amon, Aang's life with the monks)It had purpose. At the end of an episode, the fight was done. The end of an episode brought some sort of closure. Complete opposite of other Animes for reasons explained earlier.

My point is: Anime doesn't mean Quality; Defenders of "anime's style and culture" should broaden their points of view and try enjoying japan inspired western cartoons simply because they are good shows.

(This is the best i can do in english to stand my position on the subject discussed. It probably went all sort of directions but i'm sure it is a good piece of opinion nonetheless.)

 

[Alterego-X]

The contemporary definition of anime in today's pop culture refers to only two things, the art style and typical conventions. The more realistic proportions save for the big gooey eyes, the excessive amounts of exposition and esoteric site gags take precedence over the fact that it came out of Japan. Legend of Korra isn't anime despite being made in the west, plenty of shows such as Panty and Stocking aren't anime despite being made in japan.

While I'm all for descriptive linguistics, and not being anal about etimologies, this is one of the cases where you REALLY shouldn't change a definition based on pop-culture alone.

Pop-culture can be wrong, too. While the majority of PEOPLE in general would look at Panty & Stocking and say that it's not an anime, the majority of people WHO WATCHED Panty & Stocking are anime fans who watched it as an anime, discussed it on anime fansites, and catergorized it together with the rest of the Fall 2010 anime season.

Those masses who use "anime" interchargibly with their crude stereotypes of it's supposedly typical elements, are no different from those who use "handheld console" and "nintendo" interchargibly, those who call Google.com a browser, or those who call Europa Universalis a turn-based strategy.

Even if they are the majority, they can also be dead wrong, as long as there is also a more informed group with a precise, reasonable definition, who know what they are talking about.

 

[Wado Rhyu]

i must say NO the can't and the reason is simple.

the shows that are described are cartoons marketed at ppl of the age of roughly 5 to 12.
where as the anime is marketed at students between the age of 15 to 25. this is clearly show due to the large amount of blood, violence and references to sex in general. these thing are in contradiciton tot he great american famillie valuae's. and there for the americans will never make a proper anime that will be succesful.

 

[SpAc3man]

I don't think so. Anime-style or Western-Anime would be much more appropriate terms.

Bourbon isn't the only example. Various wine styles, cheeses, cured meats etc can only be called by their names if made in the regions where they originate. If not made in the region of origin then they have an alternative name that still identifies them as made in the style of the original product. May seem a bit pretentious but it is in effort to preserve the value and reputation of traditionally made products.


Westernime. Couldn't help myself.

 

[Pearwood]

Whatever people say about anime being a Japanese word you can't argue that it isn't considered its own school of animation with a distinct style and common themes. If something non-Japanese has that style and those themes then anyone who doesn't use the word kawaii in regular conversation will call it anime.

 

[Leyvin]

You know I wrote an epically long post about the fact that really Animé simply means Animation; and that the term was in-fact a borrowed on from European Distributors that the Japanese use due to not having native word for Cartoons as we do in English.

I mean to me Animé will always describe anything Animated, with Manga or Japanimé describing those specifically from Japan.

Still this is about Legend of Korra...
Honestly, I don't care what the silent pigeon hole board decided to finally clasify it as.
As far as I'm concerned, what it achieved in a 12-Episode Series ... means far more than any stupid classification.

Avatar has been one of the few shows that wasn't Japanese that has managed to make me excited and interested in. The story while can appear over-the-top in places has a very human and down-to-earth element about it.

They are good from a simple standpoint that, they are dealing with some very deep subjects in a way that normal western animations avoid like the plague - i.e. without the happy ending for everyone.

I would actually say even being compared to Japanimé that have matured, from the likes of Project I.G. ... Legend of Korra, frankly deserves to stand next to something like Ghost in the Shell. To a degree more so given the subject matter, I mean the show is very western.

The characters have very western personalities, particularly Korra. Not to mention the subject matter. As I said, I couldn't care less if you'd consider this Animé or not... as far as I'm concerned we need more shows like this. We need more shows that are more down-to-earth with thier story telling, are darker in nature and overall are not simply aimed at children but are enjoyable for adults as well.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Gonna stick to my anime definition that its from Japan. Simply because it a japanese term.

Yes the west can sure create works like their Japanese counterparts, and the avatar series are a great example. Using a japanese term to describe western animation makes no sense as the word to describe them in the west already exist.

I do agree that using the word anime as a genre description is a bad idea, as japanese animation as a whole covers just about every facet of genres imaginable. You choose what you like to watch in a series and i'm certain you'll find an anime for it.

Just happy to see the west branching out and messing with a greater variety of genres other than the usual kid power fantasies and adult slapstick/sitcoms.

 

[F1ak3r]

I think it's a pointless question. "Anime" is a name used for cartoons from Japan, and "cartoons" or "western animation" are names used for cartoons not from Japan. I enjoy a lot of cartoons and I couldn't really care what they're called or where they're from. Anyone can make a cartoon about anything, and people who limit what they watch based on what country it comes from are only doing themselves a disservice.

 

[Zaik]

Uh, animated cartoons? Yes. They've been doing it for, literally, years.


Big eye little girl pedo material? Not unless they want to go to jail.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

I've just finished watching The Last Airbender. It's Anime. If you just look at the art and animation style it certainly fits.

I'm not really sure why people would consider it to not be Anime unless they enjoyed it and had a negative association with anime.

 

[Soak]

I think it's interesting considering, that in Japan, "anime" already refers to every sort of animation, no matter where it comes from, so in Japan there would be no problem to use the term on Avatar, Samurai Jack and so on.
On the other hand, you were talking about the ingredients, and there definitely are major differences!
To begin with, Avatar draws ifluence/inspirationn from Chinese culture (which is not Japan, in fact, both cultures aren't always good to speak of one another). Even if you look at Samurai Jack, as his name kinda implies, he's about 50% Samurai and 50% American. Thouth they may look like Japanese animation and are inspired by far eastern culture, there's still a difference the more you look into it. So, if you'd want to distingiush them, it would be much more appropriate to do so by genre:

Hell, it's only barely adequate to describe Japanese animations, because it's not like all anime are one genre. Your article doesn't even describe anime; it describes a subtype of anime known as shonen.

But, going further, as already mentioned by "Scars Unseen", sometimes it gets very difficult to put a very individual work (like the Avatar-Series is) into a genre-branch and that has a very good reason, because the more complex, more individual such a work gets, the more it moves away from regular genres (and often also away from national stereotypes), resulting in the work becoming more "live-like" and/or a special piece of art and the descriptions including several genre-terms or even creating new ones.

To break it down, considering the term "anime" lacks to properly describe anything more than an animated video work, you might want to use genres, or just describe it as an individual work.

 

[Weaver]

For next week's shit storm: "What is moe?"

 

[dimensional]

Anime and cartoon are interchangeable as far as im concerned and I quite like animation as a whole whatever you want to call it.

For next week's shit storm: "What is Moe?"

Thats a good question luckily we have the expert here also bonus hes also an anime/cartoon/drawn/computer generated character so he can provide insight into that as well.

 

[The Human Torch]

The term 'Anime' is nothing more than a way of distinguishing the American home-made cartoons from the Japanese. Regardless of which country inspired who to do cartoons in a certain style, there is a gigantic difference between American and Japanese cartoons, some random examples would be:
- 5 minute long intro's
- J-pop bands made especially to create a theme song
- more adult content (less problems in Japan with partial nudity, violence and blood)
- voice acting quality (Japanese voice actors are usually better trained and schooled)
- animation quality (Japan has higher quality benchmarks than America)
- less commercialization (most American shows are made purely for toy and other merchanise sales, Japanese anime tends to be more moderate in that regard)

Note that there are exceptions and I don't want anyone attacking me, because you think that, "Nolan North is the best voice actor evah".

That being said, I couldn't care less what the term 'Anime' stands for, I just watch either American or Japanese CARTOONS.

 

[The Deadpool]

i must say NO the can't and the reason is simple.

the shows that are described are cartoons marketed at ppl of the age of roughly 5 to 12.
where as the anime is marketed at students between the age of 15 to 25.

Ha ha ha... No.

Anime is still heavily geared towards "Tweens"... The Japanese (and large parts of the world) just have differing attitudes towards what level of violence and inuendo is acceptable for 12 year olds.

Seriously, you think shows like Dragon Ball Z and Girls Bravo are intended for mature audiences?

 

[Alterego-X]

Whatever people say about anime being a Japanese word you can't argue that it isn't considered its own school of animation with a distinct style and common themes. If something non-Japanese has that style and those themes then anyone who doesn't use the word kawaii in regular conversation will call it anime.

They don't have to use "kawaii" in conversation. They have to use "shonen action series" in conversation, that is the name of the genre that Naruto, Bleach, and Avatar are all following with their art style and themes, and not "anime".

 

[SadakoMoose]

I remember when they first debuted Avatar, and similarly when CN debuted the Murakami Teen Titans, and remember exactly how internet anime fans reacted.
It was not pleasant.
This is going to be an oddly specific, probably obscure reference, but in the manga "Dramacon" there's a scene where an American manga-ka is accosted by a young Narutard for not being Japanese. As she is a woman of color, he goes on to say "she's not even white".
That, by and large, was how the Gaia Online forums reacted to those shows when they first came out. Over time, however, many of those people eventually changed their tune.
Of course, that was back when Gaia still had hentai sites on their links page and it was still kind of "hip" to be into Naruto.
I know, right? They also had an online dating service, but that was before I joined.
It was like "Cyber" central over there!

Back to the topic: You'll find that attitude nearly everywhere. They're called "purists". They can be some of the most annoying fans in the world...

 

[Torrasque]

Can Americans make anime? No. I consider anime to be animation made in Japan.
Can Americans make good animation that looks like anime, but is not anime? Yes. I loved Avatar, and while I have my problems with Korra (which I am trying to get over because they are silly) they are still very good shows. Afro Samurai and Powerpuff Girls are also two very good shows.

I remember when I first started watching Avatar, I did what I usually do: went looking for the original voice work, the sub. It didn't take long for me to realize "Oh wait, there is no sub because this was done in english. Oh wait, this was done in english because it is not Japanese, it is American" and that really weirded me out. I mean, it looks like an anime. The story and characters are very anime-esque. Does that make it an anime? No. Does that mean it is automatically bad and sub-par? No.

To be fair, my idea of an anime--and what makes a good anime--are not normal.

 

[Pearwood]

They don't have to use "kawaii" in conversation. They have to use "shonen action series" in conversation, that is the name of the genre that Naruto, Bleach, and Avatar are all following with their art style and themes.

My point was you'd have to be pretty fucking otaku to write off all non-Japanese anime when it's such a varied medium with such an easily recognisable style. I can't think of an American anime off the top of my head that isn't action, probably because it's the easiest stepping stone from Western to Eastern styles.

- 5 minute long intro's
- J-pop bands made especially to create a theme song
- more adult content (less problems in Japan with partial nudity, violence and blood)
- voice acting quality (Japanese voice actors are usually better trained and schooled)
- animation quality (Japan has higher quality benchmarks than America)
- less commercialization (most American shows are made purely for toy and other merchanise sales, Japanese anime tends to be more moderate in that regard)

I can't disagree with what you're saying but I do think it's down to Japan being far more experienced when it comes to animation more than due to any cultural differences. As anime gets more popular the quality of the voice acting and the animation itself goes up since they can throw a bigger budget at it without much worry. As for tie-in merchandise, it's always going to be around. Pokemon's a huge example of that on the Japanese side.