Can Americans Make Anime?
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Anime should never be defined as where it originates from, since much of the animation is outsourced to Korea, hell Avatar was made in the same place as HotD, Asobi ni iku yo, Simpsons, Family guy, Futurama, ect ect. No I use the term anime to refer to an animation made for the Japanese market (primary market, not a Disney film later sold in Japan but a Disney film like Fireball made specifically for Japan audiences). This also rules out style because anime is extremely varied, just as South Park is a much different style then Finding Nemo, Jin Roh is a much different style then Binbou Shimai Monogatari.
So yes Avatar uses many of the same styles as certain anime, the large eyes, main female lead, issues that often crop up in anime stories are explored, but is Avatar an anime? I'd say it's not, it's a really good American cartoon made for an American audience, otherwise it would have been marketed and sold primarily for the Japanese audience.
So yes Avatar uses many of the same styles as certain anime, the large eyes, main female lead, issues that often crop up in anime stories are explored, but is Avatar an anime? I'd say it's not, it's a really good American cartoon made for an American audience, otherwise it would have been marketed and sold primarily for the Japanese audience.
With the same logic, animation and film are not separate media either. After all, it's all just motion picture, recorded on a film tape or on digital storages, regardless of whether it's frames are drawn individually or recorded photographically.JP Sheehan said:
But "medium" refers to tools and techniques that a creator is using. Just like a stone sculptor and a bronze sculptor use different mediums even if the end result looks vaguely similar, or just like the work behind live action movies and animation is different.
But beyond that, there are many minor styles and techniques that can be considered mediums on their own, there is no objective line. Are 3D CGI and 2D animation the same medium? Live action and stop motion? Novels, and comic books? Singing and instrumental music?
Japanese anime also uses it's specific techniques, so we might as well call it a medium, even if the distinction is less than obvious.
It's certainly SOMETHING, given that it has it's own audience, fandom, separate industry and companies. But it's certainly not a genre, since it expands to any and every genre from crime mystery to porn, and from romantic melodrama to space opera.
Therefore, medium.
No, you have to be Japanese or at least Asian to draw overblown cartoons about robots or evil, dark tentacle monsters.
NOTE: (^^^**SARCASM**^^^)
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Why not? Really. "Legend of Korra", while I didn't enjoy it, sure has garnered a massive following.
Now that will bring up the "What is true anime" debate, and inevitably, how the west "Just doesn't get it". As far as I know, "Not getting it" is the most basic theme of anime in general. Don't take this the wrong way, but its different from just about every other art style out there and its only limited to the creators imagination. In short, its weird stuff, and we have people who draw weird stuff too.
NOTE: (^^^**SARCASM**^^^)
NOTE: (^*NOTE THIS NOTE*^)
Why not? Really. "Legend of Korra", while I didn't enjoy it, sure has garnered a massive following.
Now that will bring up the "What is true anime" debate, and inevitably, how the west "Just doesn't get it". As far as I know, "Not getting it" is the most basic theme of anime in general. Don't take this the wrong way, but its different from just about every other art style out there and its only limited to the creators imagination. In short, its weird stuff, and we have people who draw weird stuff too.
I'd say Avatar isn't anime for a few reasons.
A lot of people will say, not Japanese? Not anime. Which I guess is a valid argument I suppose. Not one I agree with but none the less, I see where they are coming from.
Other people will say that geography doesn't matter, and that it's in the style of anime, and THAT is my problem.
It's NOT in the style anime at all, it's just a very smartly animated series. In fact, if anything it resembles modern Manhwa, which is the South Korean equivalent of Manga.
So no, I don't think it is anime, but that in no way means that we should enjoy it any less.
A lot of people will say, not Japanese? Not anime. Which I guess is a valid argument I suppose. Not one I agree with but none the less, I see where they are coming from.
Other people will say that geography doesn't matter, and that it's in the style of anime, and THAT is my problem.
It's NOT in the style anime at all, it's just a very smartly animated series. In fact, if anything it resembles modern Manhwa, which is the South Korean equivalent of Manga.
So no, I don't think it is anime, but that in no way means that we should enjoy it any less.
Just to add my 2 cents
I don't really care about what constitutes Anime or not, but there's a fundamental difference between Japanese animation and Western animation influenced by "anime", as I have never found the stuff made in Japan enjoyable to watch, but have had no such problems with several western productions
I don't really care about what constitutes Anime or not, but there's a fundamental difference between Japanese animation and Western animation influenced by "anime", as I have never found the stuff made in Japan enjoyable to watch, but have had no such problems with several western productions
Wow. Nine pages of comments already.
Has anyone pointed out "Anime" isn't actually a genre. There are genres within the media of Anime.
Also, I hope someone has pointed out that most Japanese animation changes it's images every three frames. Western animation mostly changes images every two frames. So right there you have a way to say whether or not it's actually legit "Anime".
Basically, I don't care if a cartoon is officially one way or another. Is it fun, entertaining, thoughtful, exciting, cathartic, engaging, suspenseful, funny, or inspiring? Then I'll watch!
Just like anything a person can experience in their life, a cartoon whether Western or Eastern, Southern or Northern can either be well crafted and a delight to behold, or it can be a slapdash pandering company shill trying to sell you snacks and useless merch.
It just comes down to whether you like it or not.
Has anyone pointed out "Anime" isn't actually a genre. There are genres within the media of Anime.
Also, I hope someone has pointed out that most Japanese animation changes it's images every three frames. Western animation mostly changes images every two frames. So right there you have a way to say whether or not it's actually legit "Anime".
Basically, I don't care if a cartoon is officially one way or another. Is it fun, entertaining, thoughtful, exciting, cathartic, engaging, suspenseful, funny, or inspiring? Then I'll watch!
Just like anything a person can experience in their life, a cartoon whether Western or Eastern, Southern or Northern can either be well crafted and a delight to behold, or it can be a slapdash pandering company shill trying to sell you snacks and useless merch.
It just comes down to whether you like it or not.
personally I find the term anime to be dated. Anime is just japan's word for animated show or movie and they lack the "for kids" stigma so it varies as much as live-action shows. For this reason the term is basically useless for defining someones tastes
I mean should we really be grouping Shin-Chan with Elfen Lied?
I mean should we really be grouping Shin-Chan with Elfen Lied?
There is a lot of discussion here.. but NO...
Many people have said it, Avatar clearly tries to emulate Japanese Animation in many ways, but it doesn't quite succeed in my books.
Japanese animators use different techniques, framing and style when animating. I'm by no means a complete expert, but I can tell from a mile away that Avatar, Ben 10, or things like Boondocks are NOT japanese productions. A lot of the animation is done in Korea, and other non japanese studios, and their output lacks the precision and is evidently different for the keen eye, even when we talk about the lowest quality anime. I personally have not seen the production feel of anime in american produced shows, ever.
Show me 5 seconds of animation from either production and I will be able to tell you instantly if it is Japanese animation or not. I suppose like some people say that diet-coke has the same taste as coke, and actual coke drinkers can tell the difference immediately.
That said, Anime is a generic term of production. Themes, styles and topics are hugely varied, even when the public eye focuses mostly on stereotypes. To me, the plot of Avatar, and TLOK, are very generic eastern inspired action fantasy stories. Not necessarily anime, but closer to 80's european narratives. Most western animation seems to consider fantasy a necessity, while the japanese animation I like, often follows absolutely realistic narratives. It has the faculty to tackle themes that may not be oriented to children.
A distinction would be Afro samurai. Or the new Thundercats or xmen anime, I'm not a big fan of any of them but you can clearly see that the production style (often linked to the framerate of the original animation) is different.
I have distanced myself a lot from anime lately, but I have to disagree with most commenters and the article: yes, you can tell the difference. And no, at least this is not anime.
Many people have said it, Avatar clearly tries to emulate Japanese Animation in many ways, but it doesn't quite succeed in my books.
Japanese animators use different techniques, framing and style when animating. I'm by no means a complete expert, but I can tell from a mile away that Avatar, Ben 10, or things like Boondocks are NOT japanese productions. A lot of the animation is done in Korea, and other non japanese studios, and their output lacks the precision and is evidently different for the keen eye, even when we talk about the lowest quality anime. I personally have not seen the production feel of anime in american produced shows, ever.
Show me 5 seconds of animation from either production and I will be able to tell you instantly if it is Japanese animation or not. I suppose like some people say that diet-coke has the same taste as coke, and actual coke drinkers can tell the difference immediately.
That said, Anime is a generic term of production. Themes, styles and topics are hugely varied, even when the public eye focuses mostly on stereotypes. To me, the plot of Avatar, and TLOK, are very generic eastern inspired action fantasy stories. Not necessarily anime, but closer to 80's european narratives. Most western animation seems to consider fantasy a necessity, while the japanese animation I like, often follows absolutely realistic narratives. It has the faculty to tackle themes that may not be oriented to children.
A distinction would be Afro samurai. Or the new Thundercats or xmen anime, I'm not a big fan of any of them but you can clearly see that the production style (often linked to the framerate of the original animation) is different.
I have distanced myself a lot from anime lately, but I have to disagree with most commenters and the article: yes, you can tell the difference. And no, at least this is not anime.
I would probably say that anime is an artstyle and that's why people don't consider it anime.
It's all animated anyway, so what's all the commotion about it? Legend of Korra is a great show fully worthy of your time and viewership, so quiet down and watch it.
It's all animated anyway, so what's all the commotion about it? Legend of Korra is a great show fully worthy of your time and viewership, so quiet down and watch it.
A strange claim considering most anime except high budget productions suffer from "Limited animation [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_animation]Delcast said:
I know most Western studios also have ways to cheat to prevent having to draw all 24 frames per second, but they have chosen more new ways to do it by for example computer manipulation of drawings
I'm not stating Anime is bad animation in any way, but a lot of people new to the medium note the apparent choppiness in a lot of the series made for television
I want to say "Yes, we can", but at the same time i dont think we really can. They over use facial expression when they arnt really needed, the art styles tend to be far from what most would consider "anime" art style itself, and the stories tend to be very Western, where as anime tends to stick to Eastern areas or Space.
I wouldnt consider Teen Titans, Avatar, The Power Puff Girls, Ben 10, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, or "Korra" as anime. They are extremely western in both art, and story. Its american animation with anime tendencies in it. You can use shading like an anime, and facial expressions like one, but that doesnt make it one. Then you have things like Megas XLR which is american animation, but very Eastern in story, comedy and inspiration. Its not "Anime", but its close to it, much like Samurai Jack was. They didnt over use comical facial expressions, they didnt try and hamfist jokes to use the facial expressions, they were just themselves, and that made them great.
I would say The Boondocks is closer to anime in art and spirit, but not in ideal. Everything in the show, from its writing, characters, plots and comedy are weastern. Its nearly there, but it stops just shy of what i would consider "Anime" and not "Western Animation". Its right on the border.
But Afro Samurai is what i would consider "Anime", if right on the border. The Art style is spot on, the characters and their backgrounds fit extremely well to the genre, the humor is very well placed, and never hamfisted in an unnecessary way, and above all, the story itself is extremely eastern in style. A style which is full of grim moments, heroic losses, comedic backdrops and deep presentation. Nothing "Good" ever happens, which is also something i hold to a far more Eastern style of Animation. In american animation, the hero will ALWAYS win, he will ALWAYS live, and he will ALWAYS be the hero. His choices will never effect anyone in a real negative way. He never has to condemn the innocent to a fate equal or worse the death. He barely has to condemn the Evil to such a fate. In Afro Samurai, he regularly has the choice of just "Stop killing". He could easily just throw away his headband, and spend the rest of his life drinking lemon-aid. He is no more a hero then a villain, arguable he IS a villain in the series with how much pain and suffering hes caused for a headband.
Can americans make anime? Yes. But we dont. We barely even put effort into it, or trying to do it. And when we try, its close, but distinctly western in story, style and character. We have done it, and we might do it again in the future, but its going to be rare.
I wouldnt consider Teen Titans, Avatar, The Power Puff Girls, Ben 10, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, or "Korra" as anime. They are extremely western in both art, and story. Its american animation with anime tendencies in it. You can use shading like an anime, and facial expressions like one, but that doesnt make it one. Then you have things like Megas XLR which is american animation, but very Eastern in story, comedy and inspiration. Its not "Anime", but its close to it, much like Samurai Jack was. They didnt over use comical facial expressions, they didnt try and hamfist jokes to use the facial expressions, they were just themselves, and that made them great.
I would say The Boondocks is closer to anime in art and spirit, but not in ideal. Everything in the show, from its writing, characters, plots and comedy are weastern. Its nearly there, but it stops just shy of what i would consider "Anime" and not "Western Animation". Its right on the border.
But Afro Samurai is what i would consider "Anime", if right on the border. The Art style is spot on, the characters and their backgrounds fit extremely well to the genre, the humor is very well placed, and never hamfisted in an unnecessary way, and above all, the story itself is extremely eastern in style. A style which is full of grim moments, heroic losses, comedic backdrops and deep presentation. Nothing "Good" ever happens, which is also something i hold to a far more Eastern style of Animation. In american animation, the hero will ALWAYS win, he will ALWAYS live, and he will ALWAYS be the hero. His choices will never effect anyone in a real negative way. He never has to condemn the innocent to a fate equal or worse the death. He barely has to condemn the Evil to such a fate. In Afro Samurai, he regularly has the choice of just "Stop killing". He could easily just throw away his headband, and spend the rest of his life drinking lemon-aid. He is no more a hero then a villain, arguable he IS a villain in the series with how much pain and suffering hes caused for a headband.
Can americans make anime? Yes. But we dont. We barely even put effort into it, or trying to do it. And when we try, its close, but distinctly western in story, style and character. We have done it, and we might do it again in the future, but its going to be rare.
Ha ha ha... No.Wado Rhyu said:
Anime is still heavily geared towards "Tweens"... The Japanese (and large parts of the world) just have differing attitudes towards what level of violence and inuendo is acceptable for 12 year olds.
Seriously, you think shows like Dragon Ball Z and Girls Bravo are intended for mature audiences?[/quote]
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to bad you cant quote the entire post.but what you say only agrees with the rest of the post. also i was talking about the group of western ppl not japanse. just as a side note. might wanna watch gintama there the make fun of anime in general and the subject of what age you must be to watch something is also discussed. this might give a bit of insight in to the matter
p.s something went wrong with quoting
Because it was written by Japanese people, working at a Japanese anime studio, creating it for airing at Fuji TV.kouriichi said:
Yes, and I'm not stating that Anime is particularly good animation. They are good at using their weaknesses for them. Anime has a much lower budget, which forces animators to use their tools effectively. There is often Hybrid framerate (explosions, hair or fire at 30fps, character animation at 10) that allows for a lot of flexibility in the production process.SNCommand said:
In fact, most anime is drawn in around 15 frames per second, which might seem odd, but can give more expression to movements and make them feel more fluid if emphasised enough... some sequences of importance can be animated fully in 30 fps, but it is often used solely for openings, and pivotal action/plot points.
I find these kind of derailing comments very unconstructive.The Great JT said:
Nothing in the article made a claim about terms like "anime" or "cartoon" making a show better or worse. Few, if any commenters tried to claim anything like that. This topic is about categories of media and how we define them, not about whether or not Legend of Korra is a good show.
There were some interesting points brought up, at all sides. Some people expressed that separating anime *at all* from cartoons is a worrisome habit, and an excessive isolationism from a fandom. Others claimed that anime is an entirely separate art style even from animesque western toons. Yet others claimed that anime is already a collection of several styles, and the only thing connecting them is that they are made in Japan, so non-japanese things can't fit into it.
All of these are unique insights into the topic of how we define our communities and our fandoms. After all, since there is such a thing as the anime fandom, and the concept of anime as a type of content, we might as well try to explain and understand what it is.
To barge into a thread with such a point, and declare that you don't care about it, is like jumping into a valve business model thread to declare your love of Half life 2, or comment at a sexism-in-gaming article that you don't care whether or not Lollipop Chainsaw is sexist, but you really hated it.
It disturbs me why would you even THINK that this is relevant information.