Can Americans Make Anime?

[Kyogissun]

...Uh, I've just always used anime to differentiate when I'm talking about a japanese animated series versus an animated american series.

Anime isn't a word I use for quality classification and purely for origin reasoning, because I watch enough animated series to merit that need for a separation.

So yeah, I don't think this debate makes much sense to me. It's a subjective thing IMHO. I watched a couple episodes of Korra and it was pretty dece. I'd put it on par with japanese animation.

 

[Mike Kayatta]

The whole purpose of labels to to help communication, not hinder it. Realistically speaking, if I was telling someone about Legend of Korra, and I said it was an anime, the other person would understand the thematic comparison but probably be confused as to the origin. So, in that sense, calling it "American anime" would be really helpful. On the other hand, the value of that descriptor will be dependent on who you're speaking with. So, should we be able to call shows like Legend of Korra anime? Sure, but only in so much as it remains helpful to do so. What's pointless is arguing about the definition of the word for the sake of arguing about the definition of the word. There is no council that determines what a word should or does truly mean. Either the community as a whole has shifted its understanding of a term, or it hasn't. Right now, I'd say we're at the point where reasonable people would, at the very least, understand why you called a Western anime such, as long as you attached a few caveats. Maybe someday, when there are more mainstream, quality shows in the mix, the term will become ubiquitous.

 

[mfeff]

No not the same, not even close.

Jack Daniel is Jack Daniels because of it's process and the materials used in it's production. Soil PH, humidity, rain fall, re-use of barrels give the bourbon a distinct character. Just about anyone who "knows" bourbon would be able to tell you the differences, the brands, and most of the relevant information in a blind taste test.

A Ducati motorcycle is the same way... it's a Ducati because it's a Ducati. No matter how many components or stylistic copies the Japanese make of Italian art it does not make a Japanese product Italian art.

Anime is a fairly "loose" term and has often farmed out it's work to other studios outside of Japan... effectively this makes the term subject to some interpretation. That being said that anime is still under much of the direction of a Japanese staff which are en-cultured to Japanese theme and narrative, there will be a decided "Japanese"-ness to the end product. It's quite easy to spot what country most of the work was accomplished in, just by the subtleties of the product.

Western animation in a Japanese inspired style is just that... western animation in a Japanese inspired style. I would think that many people who are enthusiast of the Japanese mediums could easily point out which was which without knowing anything about the product before a "sampling".

Face it... no matter how hard one tries... always a gaijin, no matter how much corn one mashes, it isn't Tennessee's finest. It has nothing to do with how well one copies, and everything to do with how a culture of a region treats/handles/approaches a product.

Can't copy love, at best maybe rent it for awhile.

 

[cricket chirps]

Look at Korra's face, you know the answer is yes.

 

[Ruzinus]

And this, boys and girls, is how etymology works.

People assign meaning to a foreign word that is different from what it means in the original language, etc etc etc, confusion abounds.

It's doubly funny in this case, because "Anime" was borrowed from our language, then we just borrowed it back.

No one else finds etymology amusing? Ah, whatever.

 

[Nikolaz72]

"Can anyone outside of Japan make Anime?" is unequivocally "No."
Actually the answer is Unequivocally YES. Most Anime isn't even made In Japan anymore. Most anime is farmed out to Korean Sweat Shops. Heck Legend of Korra is even made by a Korean Sweat Shop run by Buster Bunny himself.

Anime is a Japaneese word for animation/cartoons.. Therefor, unless you are a Japaneese outside Japan, I really doubt you would be making anime's. It would just be, well.. Animation or Cartoons.

Incorrect.
Per a Dictionary
Anime is a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes See here [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anime?show=0&t=1343660934].

Anime is a STYLE that originated in Japan but isn't done exclusively in Japan.

If I make an Edo Style Wood Block print it is a ukiyo-e? Yes it is because it is a particular Style and as long as I follow that style then there is no problem.

American Cartoons as an mature medium died long ago and because of that have a childish tone to them. American Cartoons are themselves a Style.

Your Dictionary is incorrect. Anime isnt a style. . . Saying its a style would mean that its a certain way of drawing, but there are tons of ways to draw and as far as I recall they are all named something different.

The term is up for interpretation, one of the interpretations (A huge generalization) being in an american dictionary doesnt prove much of anything.

Avatar is a western cartoon, made as if it was a Japaneese cartoon.

That being said this is pointless to be drawn into an arguement over. So im quitting before it gets further.

 

[RJ Dalton]

I've never seen Avatar or Korra, so I'm going to exempt it from any kind of statement I make in the following.

I've only ever used Anime to describe animation out of Japan and anything American made that imitates it is just that, an imitation. Most of the stuff that imitates anime is shit to me, because it doesn't really understand the culture that it's trying to imitate and it may get the outward appearance right, but it misses the fine details by leaps and bounds.
That's primarily the reason I haven't seen Avatar. It came around at a time when companies were trying to imitate anime and doing a shitty job. So I saw Avatar's animation and dismissed it as just another attempt to imitate anime. Of course, later I keep hearing people who agree with me about the quality of anime imitators actually saying Avatar was good, so I wonder what I missed, but not enough to actually go look up the show, because I really don't care for TV in general anymore, anime or otherwise.

But really, I wish animators would stop trying to imitate anime. I can understand being influenced by it and maybe even wanting to pay homage to it, but to imitate it like the format itself is automatically going to make your work better, or popular is a flawed kind of logic that can limit artistic creativity and originality. Anime has its high points, but its style and tropes aren't what make it good when it's good and, in fact, are sometimes what make it bad when it's bad. It isn't the perfect expression of the animated medium and should not be treated as such. I would much rather animators develop their own style and look to their projects.

 

[IncrediBurch]

The term "anime" is meant as a classification for cartoons made in japan. The art style, plot tropes, and other surface similarities aren't what identify cartoons as Anime or not.

There is one thing trait that is much more predominant in Anime than in US cartoons. This also goes for the difference in American comics from Japanese Comics (Manga). That is complete series plot arc with definitive endings and beginnings. This is the reason I find anime so much interesting than most American Cartoons and TV shows.

Largely, American TV programs (live action and animated) are written to be endless. Countless mini-arcs to keep the series alive until the viewership drops below profitable. In comparison, very few Anime or Manga series are written that way. Most have a definitive over-arcing plot that will lead to the series finale within a set time frame. Then, if a series is popular, the series may either receive a reboot series, spin-off series, sequel series, stand-alone movies or any combination of the afformentioned. Also, tons of merchandising works in to promote and perpetuate franchise profits well beyond a series conclusion.

Examples: Ruroni Kenshin/Samurai X, Ghost in the Shell, Dragon Ball.

Despite being long over, they still linger in fans minds and are still finding new audiences today.

I don't know how cultural differences play into these contrasting trends, or whether Anime series are more profitable than some of the most popular American shows that have ended.

 

[Gunjester]

Meh I don't think Anime is a label that should be strived for. In my opinion there is very little good anime.

You are entitled to your opinion. Granted, this isn't about striving for the label, it's for clarifying, as it doesn't really make sense. Though I suppose it'd be like how some people say fighting or sport video games aren't real video games. They are, and it's silly to say they're not.

Also, you need to look outside the mainstream anime for the jewels. Like the recent 'Fate/Zero' series that got very little attention despite it's amazing production, direction and art styles. Not to mention a more-than-decent storyline.

 

[AJax_21]

One thing The Legend of Korra has that anime has in spades.... A lackluster/rushed ending.

*sigh

Here's hoping the second part is better!

The show is great, don't get me wrong, but overall I don't really care if it isn't considered 'anime'.

Most definitely effing agreed. There's so much to ***** about the ending I don't where to begin. It blows my mind how much they dropped the ball with the ending. Korra undergoes no character development and learns bloody nothing, because hey instead of living with the consequences of having the rest of her powers taken away, the writers give her powers back in the most ass-pull deus ex machina I've ever seen. *Urgh*

Sorry for being off-topic but I love this series. Why did the ending had to suck so much?

 

[Scars Unseen]

As I asked someone before, which style of Japanese animation is anime? There are several.

And yet they all are distinct from anything western. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Let's see: either the characters will be chibi or realistic--never cartoony, except when realistic people suddenly change. Nothing will look like it's made in Flash, even if it is. There will be anime tropes, like sweat drops and red noses. Despite being Asian, they will not look Asian. The mouth animation will use flaps so that they can be synchronized with other languages. I could go on and on.

And, yes, most of this stuff is being aped by the American counterparts, but the problem is that the feel is just off. American culture and Japanese culture is just so different, and people don't think the same way.

I'd say you're seeing forests that don't exist. Or rather that you see one forest where there are several. As has been mentioned by others, there are anime out there that look nothing alike. Trying to group all Japanese animation is like trying to group all American animation. What do South Park, My Little Pony and The Incredibles have in common? They are all animated. And there are Japanese shows out there with diversity far beyond those shows.

 

[aattss]

I think that page 2 of the article gets a bit elitist, that perhaps some of your examples of American anime don't really match.

 

[Tony2077]

there is a different style when it comes to cartoons and anime. its not that crazy to group them together when some of the basic styles are the same.

 

[DuelLadyS]

It wouldn't seem correct to treat the entirety of any medium from any other culture with similar prejudice. We don't generalize all of British TV or Canadian webcomics. We don't lump together all of French music or Latin American food.

Sure we do. You don't go to Red Robin or Arby's if you want a Taco, do you? I've also sat in on more than one conversation about how British Top Gear is far better than US Top Gear.

I tend to gravitate toward British and Canadian comedy- they tend to possess the quick-witted dialog I love- the sort of thing where you almost have to watch it twice to catch the jokes. My brother loves Always Sunny in Philadelphia- I don't. Pooping the bed doesn't make me laugh.

Now, do I write off all American comedy? No- if I did, I've missed Pushing Daisies, which was an amazing show, driven by that very quick wordplay I adore. Similarly, my sister has taken to the Katy Brand show- which, despite its country of origin, jumps back to the silly slapstick that I just don't find very funny.

It's the same thing for anime. I tend to watch it becuase it's more mature than Spongebob- but not all of it is. I'd never begrudge a cool looking US production like Brave- or Korra- simply becuase it's not subtitled.

Long story short: Anime is from Japan. Good TV is from anywhere.

 

[DarkRyter]

Anime is a style, not bound by culture, in the same way that Third Person Omniscient Narration is a style.

No.

Anime is not a style.

 

[snave]

Yeah I pretty much agree with you fully. Not much else I can say.

Also this

As you raised this, I've never really understood why American television doesn't more often adopt the Japanese title card model.

I can think of only one recent series that has offhand, and that is Game of Thrones. It took the core idea of overviewing the driving themes that'll be used or introduced in the given episode (ie: the characters in a character-driven plot) and continually changing the intro a little to reflect the present state of the story. Of course, the two key differences here are that it focussed on places (story is setting-driven rather than plot-driven or character-driven; each setting represents an entire family and a kingdom) and came up with its own storyboard for the shots rather than just heavily borrowing or adapting from previous works like in your example video. End result? Critical acclaim. Funny that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I feel like such an old fuck when saying this, but in my time it was simply called Japanese animation. And in conversations even now, I still don't use the term 'anime' or 'manga'. Probably because I don't want to come across as a massive geek at my age, but primarily because both terms are just the Japanese translation of the words 'animation' and 'comic'. So I'll just use those words instead.

In all honesty, I wish the term 'anime' would simply fucking vanish (atleast in the West). All it seems to do is uphold this ridgid design template of how something is supposed to look. The increase in anime-looking cartoons in America only supports this. Now, Avatar and Korra are the only two of these types of shows that have actual quality, but the way the character design seems hellbent on looking anime-ish always keeps it from being truly remarkable.

And Korra kinda sucked btw.

 

[ccggenius12]

Defining cartoons from Japan as Anime is the only thing that makes sense. I don't see anyone disputing that cartoons from Japan are anime, the only question is whether American animation can be called anime. The thing is, we can't elaborate the definition of anime beyond animation from Japan. Doraemon is nothing like Fist of the North Star, but they are both Anime. If you want to extend the definition to fit series from other nations, you must necessarily exclude some Japanese series that are currently considered anime, unless you intend for the word anime to be completely interchangeable with the word cartoon. Excluding currently included series does a disservice to everyone involved, and homogenizing the word is a huge waste of time. What possible reason do we need to be re-purposing existing words when there is already a perfectly functional word to convey our exact meaning?

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Oh come on. Anyone can make anime. It's all in the presentation.

<youtube=bkP_sJty7EY>

Things I did not expect to see made with the Source Film maker, #1.

"Can anyone outside of Japan make Anime?" is unequivocally "No."
Actually the answer is Unequivocally YES. Most Anime isn't even made In Japan anymore. Most anime is farmed out to Korean Sweat Shops. Heck Legend of Korra is even made by a Korean Sweat Shop run by Buster Bunny himself.

Well, they aren't animation sweat shops any more. It is still cheaper to out source, but the South Koreans now are in better conditions, since the economy has been growing hugely, and happier workers make a better product.

And Legend of Korra's animation is a VERY good product.

I know it wasn't done by a North Korean animation studio, because the only one the country had (who made state propaganda almost exclusively, such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujtp-70zQME ) closed down in 2007 because the government ran out of money to keep funding it.