Can Americans Make Anime?

[Palademon]

I can understand comparing Avatar to anime, what with the art style and overarching story, but your other examples seemed a bit like a big jump to me, probably because I've never heard them argued before.

HMV puts Avatar in anime, but puts Ben 10 in kids cartoons. Despite Ben 10 Alien Force having Yuri Lowenthal as Ben, it never occured to me as a thought. Teen Titans might've considering it even has a Japanese song in the Mad Mod episode.
Then again I've seen Pokemon in kids cartoons before, and yet the new Beyblade series is in the anime seciton, and I'm pretty sure Yu-Gi-Oh keeps jumping the fence to either side. Maybe it's the curse of 4Kids, ruining any maturity the show has. (That is NOT me saying anime is all mature, just that any mature anime would never be put in the cartoons section).

The argument stating anime being made in other Asian countries works better for me.

I don't see anime as a label of quality, just a style I enjoy. I consider myself an anime fan, and I don't consider Avatar an anime. Doesn't stop me from enjoying it, or buying it. If so, it mostly affects my buying choice since finding it on DVD is far easier than the somewhat limited supply of anime that goes completely undergorund if you look for it a year or two after release. I actually liked The Legend of Aang quite a lot, but it certainly has a lot of humour in it, which is usually the marketing position of western animation, but that's not me making a point against it being anime, since it's a stupid one since quite a lot of anime has lots of comedy, just an observation I felt liek saying...I'm not sure why.

As a side note: It suprises me the amount of comments here that claim better quality than "most anime". Yeah...I'm totally going to believe you watch most anime. I don't even watch very much.

 

[Scars Unseen]

Next question: Can Americans make British television shows? (they certainly try!) Foreign films?

 

[Scars Unseen]

Why would they call it animation from japan? They're in Japan. They call it anime because that is their word for animation. It's not a special word. It's not animation of a specific style. What you are suggesting would be like them calling gohan "rice from Japan."

Mm, not quite so. It's more about the quality, story telling narrative and assumed age/intelligence of the target audience.

Take Looney Toons or Tom & Jerry. They both have admirable qualities and are "animation" but could anyone really call them "anime" with a straight face? Unless we're going to plunge into Urban Dictionary terrain, let's see what Merriam Webster has to say:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anime

Okay. So what is the assumed age/intelligence of the target audience of anime? (Hint: There is none)

What kind of quality can one expect from anime? (Hint: It's all over the place)

What sort of narrative does anime use? (Hint: It depends on what you're watching)

 

[Zeriah]

If you consider anime to be a style of animation, yes.

If you think anime only refers to any Japanese animated show, then no.

For me personally, I follow the former's train of thought.

 

[Scars Unseen]

If you consider anime to be a style of animation, yes.

If you think anime only refers to any Japanese animated show, then no.

For me personally, I follow the former's train of thought.

As I asked someone before, which style of Japanese animation is anime? There are several.

 

[Eri]

Anime is a MEDIUM not a genre. Can't even believe I or anyone would have to explain that. From crime anime to harem girl anime.

 

[Velimirius]

whoever decides on making animes they just dont make those like Wolfs Rain,Berserk,Cowboy Bebop or Gungrave anymore, every year is worse, only decent i saw lately was Steins Gate.

Pretty much every is lame these day, "dozen studet girls and a boy" themes, maybe Japs could take a break.

 

[zachusaman]

not enough panty shots and boob jiggling, but a good start.

 

[Shinsei-J]

Snip-

Damn, you ninja'd my whole thought prossess.
Can they make anime? Yes but right now they only have kids as their demographic.
Though it's something new so people will most likely shun it, which is stupid but so are people.
I think Korra is an anime, not something I really watch it's still an anime altogether.

Captcha: rough diamond, perfectly describes Avatar.

 

[Scars Unseen]

whoever decides on making animes they just dont make those like Wolfs Rain,Berserk,Cowboy Bebop or Gungrave anymore, every year is worse, only decent i saw lately was Steins Gate.

Pretty much every is lame these day, "dozen studet girls and a boy" themes, maybe Japs could take a break.

That's because the Japanese animation industry is in shambles due in large part to the severely decreased birth rate making it far less profitable than it once was.

 

[Dastardly]

Can Americans Make Anime?

Only if Canadians can play Baseball.

Read Full Article

The question itself isn't nearly as hard as all the questions surrounding the question.

Despite the fact that nearly everyone seems to instantly think they know what you're talking about when you say "anime," and even despite the fact that most people think about the same group of things, we still are nowhere near agreement on what is anime and why.

Really, the only common defining feature for people is the fact that it comes from Japan... but they'll put the same label on American-made stuff that models the style. So we have to talk elements of visual style... but Dragonball Z looks nothing like Cowboy Bebop, when you get right down to it, so what defines this style?

Is it the subject matter? Not really... plenty of it is more maturely-oriented, but there's tons of kid stuff, too. Story structure? Nope. Not all of the stuff we'll readily label "anime" has the same structure. We say "anime just means animation," but I don't know many folks that call Batman: The Animated Series or Titan A.E. anime.

Asking whether Americans can make anime is like asking whether Norwegians can make flubber -- it's entirely possible... if any of us can figure out what the hell flubber is in the first place.

(Of course, we could make a list of the common visual elements, themes, and story/charater tropes that are truly unique to anime. While it's unlikely any given example would contain all of them, we could attempt to set some kind of minimum number of elements... but it always ends up an arbitrary distinction to me.)

 

[Nantucket_v1legacy]

It's all cartoons to me.
Toy story is a cartoon, Wolf's Rain is a cartoon and Lion King is a cartoon. Doesn't matter where it came from or how much money you put into it - it's a cartoon.

Calling anime a cartoon can really wind people up for some reason. I used to know a girl who would rant at me whenever I called Death Note a cartoon. It's deep? It's clever? So - it's still drawn. It's still a cartoon.

 

[trlkly]

You're forgetting one very important part of anime--the Japanese worldview. And, yes, even the Japanese voice actors. Yes, indeed I have looked at a box of anime to see if it were made in Japan, because I checked to see if it had seiyu. And that's from someone who hates subs.

The thing about these American series is that they aren't at all like anime. They don't feel like anime, they don't sound like anime. When there's an American production that people can't tell what it is, then maybe we can have this conversation.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

I think the problem is that when people refer to 'anime', they refer to a school of animation that the West simply isn't nurturing, Avatar notwithstanding.

The reason I like watching anime is because it provides shows and films that combine mature storytelling, somewhat more realistic animation and proportions, and a general willingness to be more experimental. People in the West became familiar with anime through the likes of Akira, Ghost In The Shell, Cowboy Bebop and Neon Genesis. Sure, those shows and films are not symptomatic of all anime, and I would never suggest otherwise. But they are examples of the sort of territory that Japanese animators are willing to cover, and for many people that constitutes a big part of what anime is. I'm currently working my way through Noir, having already demolished my way through Black Lagoon, Gankutsuou, Kaiba and Kemonozume. Even though those shows are all drastically different in presentation and style, they still exhibit the same wish to be taken seriously as mature narratives, not simple throwaway rubbish.

In the West, animation still falls into two firm camps: kid's stuff and comedy stuff. While kid's animation occasionally throws up some gold, like Avatar or Batman TAS, for the most part its all pretty inconsequential and doesn't offer all that much to chew on. The comedy stuff, on the other hand, may be targeted at adults, but it's all animated in an incredibly barebones, basic way, and focuses more on cheap laughs than any kind of narrative that may appeal to mature audiences. We've let western animation become defined by the likes of Family Guy, the Simpsons and South Park: entertaining, sure, but cheaply presented and focused on throwaway gags.

If I wanted to watch a Western animation that was actually aimed at adult audiences looking for a good story, the only thing that springs to mind is the HBO adaption of Spawn, and that came out in the frikkin' Nineties. We've allowed animation to become cheap, inconsequential light entertainment, and I think that's where many people see the divide. For all that the Japanese animation industry is going through massive changes, it still provides us with stuff like Paprika and Redline.

If Western animation was to up its game and to start catering for that same demographic looking for something a little more from their shows, then we'd probably see less hostility to the idea of conflating the terms. As it is, if animation is a medium rather than a genre, then it's almost as if the Japanese are the only ones providing us with westerns, science fiction, film-noir, mystery stories, etc, while Western animation is purely focused on comedies and kid's entertainment. When one side of the industry is so willing to ignore the vast number of genres that exist out there, and the hunger for stuff other than cheap entertainment, then you can't be surprised when fans put up a fence around the other side that does recognise that demand and caters for it.

I had typed a long and unfocused response to the Article, said fuck it, refreshed the page and saw this...

This is exactly what I wanted to say and even clearer then my post.

To get to the heart of my point:

It's not the exclusion of western animation in Anime classification that is an issue. It's the exclusion of Anime-ish conventions by western Studios. Western Cartoons are considered Kids stuff and vehicles for irreverent, off-the-wall comedy. Not sweeping emotional epics or thematically mature series.

It is also a cultural issue, since most adults/parents view cartoons as something their kids watch (to their detriment when their Kid finds Bible Black or reads Battle Royal).

Avatar is quite exceptional, but it is not exempted from the issue. It deals with heavier themes then conventional "cartoons", but it is still primarily marketed at kids and young teens. Same as all the other western shows mentioned in the article.

EDIT: I should mention that this is somewhat tragic, since most of the early western animation was geared towards adults (Loony Toons/Tunes, The Flintstones, Betty Boop etc.)

 

[Bigeyez]

Not meaning to be picky but I noticed in the article the mention of bourbon. Jack Daniels is technically not Bourbon as it is not from Kentucky or Bourbon St New Orleans. The manufacturers refer to it as Tennessee Whiskey. But hey I like to know where my poison comes from before I drink it.

Anyways. I personally believe anime to be an artistic genre and style. Yes it started in Japan but that doesn't mean no one else is allowed to use and certainly doesn't mean the anime they produce is any better or worse. Even if 'they' happen to be American.

You realize that his point in mentioning Jack Daniels is the same point he made about animes. You yourself reinforce it. If Anime can come from America then Bourbon can come from Tennessee.

 

[Siege_TF]

Never seen it, but willing to bet it lacks fanservice, which I consider an essential part of the genere. Then again I haven't watched much (which should not be mistaken for 'any') anime in the past ... ten years or so, and as such my viewpoint may be outdated. I did, however, watch all of the original Naruto, Gundam SEED, suffer through a couple seasons of Shippuden, etc, and as far as I can tell it's still a part of the genere.

Captcha: meddling kids

I'd put my money on meddling adults, not kids.

 

[gphjr14]

Looks like anime to me, and I've been watching anime since the early 90's when it was just a handful of shows on the sci-fi channel. Hell even back then there was the Powerpuff Girls which I'm 95% sure was inspired by anime.

As someone already pointed out a lot of current animes are a collaboration of work between Korean, Chinese, and Southeast Asian animation studios.

 

[Eri]

Can Americans Make Anime?

Only if Canadians can play Baseball.

Read Full Article

The question itself isn't nearly as hard as all the questions surrounding the question.

Despite the fact that nearly everyone seems to instantly think they know what you're talking about when you say "anime," and even despite the fact that most people think about the same group of things, we still are nowhere near agreement on what is anime and why.

Really, the only common defining feature for people is the fact that it comes from Japan... but they'll put the same label on American-made stuff that models the style. So we have to talk elements of visual style... but Dragonball Z looks nothing like Cowboy Bebop, when you get right down to it, so what defines this style?

Is it the subject matter? Not really... plenty of it is more maturely-oriented, but there's tons of kid stuff, too. Story structure? Nope. Not all of the stuff we'll readily label "anime" has the same structure. We say "anime just means animation," but I don't know many folks that call Batman: The Animated Series or Titan A.E. anime.

Asking whether Americans can make anime is like asking whether Norwegians can make flubber -- it's entirely possible... if any of us can figure out what the hell flubber is in the first place.

(Of course, we could make a list of the common visual elements, themes, and story/charater tropes that are truly unique to anime. While it's unlikely any given example would contain all of them, we could attempt to set some kind of minimum number of elements... but it always ends up an arbitrary distinction to me.)

This reminds me of the Supreme Court describing porn, "I know it when I see it". Even if you can't really describe it, you definitely know when it comes along.

snip

Brilliant post sir.

 

[trlkly]

As I asked someone before, which style of Japanese animation is anime? There are several.

And yet they all are distinct from anything western. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Let's see: either the characters will be chibi or realistic--never cartoony, except when realistic people suddenly change. Nothing will look like it's made in Flash, even if it is. There will be anime tropes, like sweat drops and red noses. Despite being Asian, they will not look Asian. The mouth animation will use flaps so that they can be synchronized with other languages. I could go on and on.

And, yes, most of this stuff is being aped by the American counterparts, but the problem is that the feel is just off. American culture and Japanese culture is just so different, and people don't think the same way.