As I asked someone before, which style of Japanese animation is anime? There are several.Zeriah said:
Can Americans Make Anime?
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whoever decides on making animes they just dont make those like Wolfs Rain,Berserk,Cowboy Bebop or Gungrave anymore, every year is worse, only decent i saw lately was Steins Gate.
Pretty much every is lame these day, "dozen studet girls and a boy" themes, maybe Japs could take a break.
Pretty much every is lame these day, "dozen studet girls and a boy" themes, maybe Japs could take a break.
Damn, you ninja'd my whole thought prossess.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Can they make anime? Yes but right now they only have kids as their demographic.
Though it's something new so people will most likely shun it, which is stupid but so are people.
I think Korra is an anime, not something I really watch it's still an anime altogether.
Captcha: rough diamond, perfectly describes Avatar.
That's because the Japanese animation industry is in shambles due in large part to the severely decreased birth rate making it far less profitable than it once was.Velimirius said:
The question itself isn't nearly as hard as all the questions surrounding the question.Chris O said:
Despite the fact that nearly everyone seems to instantly think they know what you're talking about when you say "anime," and even despite the fact that most people think about the same group of things, we still are nowhere near agreement on what is anime and why.
Really, the only common defining feature for people is the fact that it comes from Japan... but they'll put the same label on American-made stuff that models the style. So we have to talk elements of visual style... but Dragonball Z looks nothing like Cowboy Bebop, when you get right down to it, so what defines this style?
Is it the subject matter? Not really... plenty of it is more maturely-oriented, but there's tons of kid stuff, too. Story structure? Nope. Not all of the stuff we'll readily label "anime" has the same structure. We say "anime just means animation," but I don't know many folks that call Batman: The Animated Series or Titan A.E. anime.
Asking whether Americans can make anime is like asking whether Norwegians can make flubber -- it's entirely possible... if any of us can figure out what the hell flubber is in the first place.
(Of course, we could make a list of the common visual elements, themes, and story/charater tropes that are truly unique to anime. While it's unlikely any given example would contain all of them, we could attempt to set some kind of minimum number of elements... but it always ends up an arbitrary distinction to me.)
It's all cartoons to me.
Toy story is a cartoon, Wolf's Rain is a cartoon and Lion King is a cartoon. Doesn't matter where it came from or how much money you put into it - it's a cartoon.
Calling anime a cartoon can really wind people up for some reason. I used to know a girl who would rant at me whenever I called Death Note a cartoon. It's deep? It's clever? So - it's still drawn. It's still a cartoon.
Toy story is a cartoon, Wolf's Rain is a cartoon and Lion King is a cartoon. Doesn't matter where it came from or how much money you put into it - it's a cartoon.
Calling anime a cartoon can really wind people up for some reason. I used to know a girl who would rant at me whenever I called Death Note a cartoon. It's deep? It's clever? So - it's still drawn. It's still a cartoon.
You're forgetting one very important part of anime--the Japanese worldview. And, yes, even the Japanese voice actors. Yes, indeed I have looked at a box of anime to see if it were made in Japan, because I checked to see if it had seiyu. And that's from someone who hates subs.
The thing about these American series is that they aren't at all like anime. They don't feel like anime, they don't sound like anime. When there's an American production that people can't tell what it is, then maybe we can have this conversation.
The thing about these American series is that they aren't at all like anime. They don't feel like anime, they don't sound like anime. When there's an American production that people can't tell what it is, then maybe we can have this conversation.
I had typed a long and unfocused response to the Article, said fuck it, refreshed the page and saw this...j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
This is exactly what I wanted to say and even clearer then my post.
To get to the heart of my point:
It's not the exclusion of western animation in Anime classification that is an issue. It's the exclusion of Anime-ish conventions by western Studios. Western Cartoons are considered Kids stuff and vehicles for irreverent, off-the-wall comedy. Not sweeping emotional epics or thematically mature series.
It is also a cultural issue, since most adults/parents view cartoons as something their kids watch (to their detriment when their Kid finds Bible Black or reads Battle Royal).
Avatar is quite exceptional, but it is not exempted from the issue. It deals with heavier themes then conventional "cartoons", but it is still primarily marketed at kids and young teens. Same as all the other western shows mentioned in the article.
EDIT: I should mention that this is somewhat tragic, since most of the early western animation was geared towards adults (Loony Toons/Tunes, The Flintstones, Betty Boop etc.)
Never seen it, but willing to bet it lacks fanservice, which I consider an essential part of the genere. Then again I haven't watched much (which should not be mistaken for 'any') anime in the past ... ten years or so, and as such my viewpoint may be outdated. I did, however, watch all of the original Naruto, Gundam SEED, suffer through a couple seasons of Shippuden, etc, and as far as I can tell it's still a part of the genere.
Captcha: meddling kids
I'd put my money on meddling adults, not kids.
Captcha: meddling kids
I'd put my money on meddling adults, not kids.
Looks like anime to me, and I've been watching anime since the early 90's when it was just a handful of shows on the sci-fi channel. Hell even back then there was the Powerpuff Girls which I'm 95% sure was inspired by anime.
As someone already pointed out a lot of current animes are a collaboration of work between Korean, Chinese, and Southeast Asian animation studios.
As someone already pointed out a lot of current animes are a collaboration of work between Korean, Chinese, and Southeast Asian animation studios.
And yet they all are distinct from anything western. You're missing the forest for the trees.Scars Unseen said:
Let's see: either the characters will be chibi or realistic--never cartoony, except when realistic people suddenly change. Nothing will look like it's made in Flash, even if it is. There will be anime tropes, like sweat drops and red noses. Despite being Asian, they will not look Asian. The mouth animation will use flaps so that they can be synchronized with other languages. I could go on and on.
And, yes, most of this stuff is being aped by the American counterparts, but the problem is that the feel is just off. American culture and Japanese culture is just so different, and people don't think the same way.
...Uh, I've just always used anime to differentiate when I'm talking about a japanese animated series versus an animated american series.
Anime isn't a word I use for quality classification and purely for origin reasoning, because I watch enough animated series to merit that need for a separation.
So yeah, I don't think this debate makes much sense to me. It's a subjective thing IMHO. I watched a couple episodes of Korra and it was pretty dece. I'd put it on par with japanese animation.
Anime isn't a word I use for quality classification and purely for origin reasoning, because I watch enough animated series to merit that need for a separation.
So yeah, I don't think this debate makes much sense to me. It's a subjective thing IMHO. I watched a couple episodes of Korra and it was pretty dece. I'd put it on par with japanese animation.
The whole purpose of labels to to help communication, not hinder it. Realistically speaking, if I was telling someone about Legend of Korra, and I said it was an anime, the other person would understand the thematic comparison but probably be confused as to the origin. So, in that sense, calling it "American anime" would be really helpful. On the other hand, the value of that descriptor will be dependent on who you're speaking with. So, should we be able to call shows like Legend of Korra anime? Sure, but only in so much as it remains helpful to do so. What's pointless is arguing about the definition of the word for the sake of arguing about the definition of the word. There is no council that determines what a word should or does truly mean. Either the community as a whole has shifted its understanding of a term, or it hasn't. Right now, I'd say we're at the point where reasonable people would, at the very least, understand why you called a Western anime such, as long as you attached a few caveats. Maybe someday, when there are more mainstream, quality shows in the mix, the term will become ubiquitous.
No not the same, not even close.
Jack Daniel is Jack Daniels because of it's process and the materials used in it's production. Soil PH, humidity, rain fall, re-use of barrels give the bourbon a distinct character. Just about anyone who "knows" bourbon would be able to tell you the differences, the brands, and most of the relevant information in a blind taste test.
A Ducati motorcycle is the same way... it's a Ducati because it's a Ducati. No matter how many components or stylistic copies the Japanese make of Italian art it does not make a Japanese product Italian art.
Anime is a fairly "loose" term and has often farmed out it's work to other studios outside of Japan... effectively this makes the term subject to some interpretation. That being said that anime is still under much of the direction of a Japanese staff which are en-cultured to Japanese theme and narrative, there will be a decided "Japanese"-ness to the end product. It's quite easy to spot what country most of the work was accomplished in, just by the subtleties of the product.
Western animation in a Japanese inspired style is just that... western animation in a Japanese inspired style. I would think that many people who are enthusiast of the Japanese mediums could easily point out which was which without knowing anything about the product before a "sampling".
Face it... no matter how hard one tries... always a gaijin, no matter how much corn one mashes, it isn't Tennessee's finest. It has nothing to do with how well one copies, and everything to do with how a culture of a region treats/handles/approaches a product.
Can't copy love, at best maybe rent it for awhile.
Jack Daniel is Jack Daniels because of it's process and the materials used in it's production. Soil PH, humidity, rain fall, re-use of barrels give the bourbon a distinct character. Just about anyone who "knows" bourbon would be able to tell you the differences, the brands, and most of the relevant information in a blind taste test.
A Ducati motorcycle is the same way... it's a Ducati because it's a Ducati. No matter how many components or stylistic copies the Japanese make of Italian art it does not make a Japanese product Italian art.
Anime is a fairly "loose" term and has often farmed out it's work to other studios outside of Japan... effectively this makes the term subject to some interpretation. That being said that anime is still under much of the direction of a Japanese staff which are en-cultured to Japanese theme and narrative, there will be a decided "Japanese"-ness to the end product. It's quite easy to spot what country most of the work was accomplished in, just by the subtleties of the product.
Western animation in a Japanese inspired style is just that... western animation in a Japanese inspired style. I would think that many people who are enthusiast of the Japanese mediums could easily point out which was which without knowing anything about the product before a "sampling".
Face it... no matter how hard one tries... always a gaijin, no matter how much corn one mashes, it isn't Tennessee's finest. It has nothing to do with how well one copies, and everything to do with how a culture of a region treats/handles/approaches a product.
Can't copy love, at best maybe rent it for awhile.
And this, boys and girls, is how etymology works.
People assign meaning to a foreign word that is different from what it means in the original language, etc etc etc, confusion abounds.
It's doubly funny in this case, because "Anime" was borrowed from our language, then we just borrowed it back.
No one else finds etymology amusing? Ah, whatever.
People assign meaning to a foreign word that is different from what it means in the original language, etc etc etc, confusion abounds.
It's doubly funny in this case, because "Anime" was borrowed from our language, then we just borrowed it back.
No one else finds etymology amusing? Ah, whatever.