Capcom Addresses Deep Down Sexism Controversy

Evil Smurf

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If this game is sexist, so is TF2, and I hate America, because I am a Socialist.

A lack of a thing does not make you "that-thing-ist." It means you a thing. Not wanting to publish a game because the protagonist is a woman or putting her the the front cover of the game box, while justifying it saying women don't play games so why bother?
 

blackrave

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josemlopes said:
Pedro The Hutt said:
The Lunatic said:
Complete sexism for skullgirls not to feature any playable male characters, guys.
I wouldn't entirely disagree, but for different reasons. It's a game that panders to nerdy males by having a lot of girls that tick the boxes on various fetishes. So it's still less than kind for female gamers, but for different reasons than a game with no playable females.

As an aside, they did add male characters in updated versions of the game. Well, one or two.
Really? You really went there? The guy picked a game where he could jokingly show this "I cant play my own sex so its sexist against me" thing working the other way around and you manage to go ahead and say that actually the game is indeed sexist but still against the female sex.

Fighting game characters are always sexualised, both male and female characters. If there was a only male fighting game someone would still cry that it was sexist against women since it didnt bother to include them.
Final Fight?
Although story behind Poison and Roxy is a bit more complicated
But still, can it be considered "sexism" against women?
If you make them women, male characters end up beating up women and as we all know such media is the main reason behind "epidemic of domestic violence" /sarcasm
If you make them transsexual, then you're omitting women from game at all and example above shows how well such thing is met
Either way developer loses
At this point I'm convinced that women (and feminists especially) just like to complain.
 

Erttheking

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havoc33 said:
Once again, the gaming community manages to embarrass itself. Developers should just stop making games, let's see if that makes these twats any more happier.
You know, I normally get on games for being sexist and even I find this criticism lacking. But saying that people should just stop making games to prove a point doesn't exactly make you the better man.
 

Erttheking

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blackrave said:
At this point I'm convinced that women (and feminists especially) just like to complain.
Kind of a weird thing to say considering that it's well established that gamers like to complain about nearly everything a game has to offer and that people are never fully pleased with a game and will always find something to nitpick. For some reason gender seems to be the one taboo thing.
 

Dragonlayer

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Interesting that we have a sexism article on the Escapist that isn't about physical appearance for a change. Not sure what to think about the lack of female characters in a story though; I wouldn't say it's necessarily sexist if the context demands it (a'la historical works for example). But if the plot reasons for not including female characters are along the lines of "In this universe, women suck at everything!" then that's not so ok.
 

Pedro The Hutt

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josemlopes said:
Fighting game characters are always sexualised, both male and female characters. If there was a only male fighting game someone would still cry that it was sexist against women since it didnt bother to include them.
I wouldn't say "Always", but regardless, I wouldn't say that male characters are "always" sexualised in fighting games, not by a long shot. Most still are male power fantasies, designed to appeal to males.

Regardless, it just goes to show how limited the abilities of fighting game character designers are if they can't make a compelling female character without sexualising her. Besides, just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's alright. There was a time where segregation was the norm, aren't we glad that's in the past now?
 

2xDouble

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Considering the only story reason for the protegonist/s to be male is likely so they can seduce and/or shag "princess maguffin", I'd say that constitutes sexism. If there's another legit story-based reason, I've yet to hear it.
 

blackrave

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erttheking said:
blackrave said:
At this point I'm convinced that women (and feminists especially) just like to complain.
Kind of a weird thing to say considering that it's well established that gamers like to complain about nearly everything a game has to offer and that people are never fully pleased with a game and will always find something to nitpick. For some reason gender seems to be the one taboo thing.
:D
True.
After reading my post once again I realized that I'm often COMPLAINING MYSELF :)
Let me correct myself
Akhem.
At this point I'm convinced that everyone (and members of religions/ideologies/subcultures especially) just like to complain about anything or even nothing (more often about nothing).
 

cynicalsaint1

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Meh.
If its just one playable character it really isn't all that sexist. Not anymore so than the general tendency to focus mostly on male characters that is.

Sounds like this is more of a miscommunication clusterfuck than anything.
 

DataSnake

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Pedro The Hutt said:
josemlopes said:
Fighting game characters are always sexualised, both male and female characters. If there was a only male fighting game someone would still cry that it was sexist against women since it didnt bother to include them.
I wouldn't say "Always", but regardless, I wouldn't say that male characters are "always" sexualised in fighting games, not by a long shot.
You're telling me you don't think Rufus [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Rufus] or Gen [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Gen] are total dreamboats? Actually, while we're on the subject, Makoto [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Makoto] is a good example of a non-sexualized female fighting game character.
 

Ipsen

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Oskuro said:
Of course, this does point to a source of actual sexism of the worst kind, the kind we hardly notice: What story reasons require a male character?
Probably the kinds of story that have that thing called inspiration.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt storytelling, or any art is concieved in a conceptual vacuum; all experience, and thus art are born from observation previously present. Even if the circumstances surrounding said observation are not currently socially acceptable.

Making a medieval themed game has basis in western medieval times, times that history would tell us had pretty much just men who went to battle. For this game to include women as combatants, you up-end the inspiration; not a problem, but it can be (sadly) a distraction. But that's the restriction of such an inspiration, and not so much a fault on part of the artist. The lack of vacuum applies to us, the audience as well; very rarely do we see a product as a true blank slate, and we do project expectations for inspired content like games, and while detraction is acceptable with consideration, it still sacrifices the core inspiration. Or would you rather we just not ever deal with medieval content again, or rewrite its history?

Overall, I just don't think this is a big issue at all, unless you actually want to make medieval history a problem of today.

While I have at least sympathy for equal gender representation, I find complaints like this, and some of its resulting echoed discussion kind of tired. Instead of using the attention gained from this fire-starting topic to bring up some useful ideas, like 'what are some gender-equal interactions or inspirations for story/setting that provide the maximum amount of design capability?' (and I don't think the answers are that hard), we'd rather just nitpick and bicker, as if the company involved (and perhaps even the audience too) were as evil and ignorant as EA.
 

Piecewise

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If it doesn't have one of each minority, then it's racist.

If it DOES have one of each minority then they're just tokens and it's racist.

If it doesn't have women, then it's sexist.

If it DOES then they're either acting too much like men, too much like female stereotypes, they don't have enough screen time, they have character flaws or their gender is brought up somewhere along the way. And apparently that's sexist too.

If it doesn't have a Gender fluid otherkin in a wheel chair then it's transphobic, singlist and ableist.

Apparently, the simple lack of a representation of any type of race, gender, political alignment, degree of impairment or category of being makes you immediately a hateful bigot.



Have you guys ever heard of the satanic panic? It was when a relatively widespread and accepted doctrine (Christianity) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of satanic worship and child sacrifice. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere the looked and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of it's own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.


Now, have you guys ever heard of the Patriarchy panic? It was when a relatively wide spread and accepted doctrine (the ideal that women and indeed anyone of any race, gender or affiliation should be treated equally) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made up outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of controlled, planned, systematic sexism being perpetrated by anyone and everyone who clashed with their personal (and often internally contradictory) idea of what an "Equal" society should be. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere they looked (Such as the above) and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of its own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.



Which isn't to say that things are perfect and equal now; but we really need to stop this bizarre, kneejerk, reactionary sort of thing that screams "MISOGYNY!" at anything that doesn't have a woman (or the "right" kind of woman) in it. Because it's not helping the cause, it's just lowering the level of the dialog and in fact harming the chances of seeing more female and other less represented groups in media because of the sheer level of anger that any tiny misstep or perceived misstep can cause.
 

Kurt Cristal

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Keep in mind, this is Capcom, who turned out to be the ONLY company willing to publish a game with a female lead that the developer fought to keep, "Remember Me". Short sighted this one, but sexist it is not. At least on the publishers part. Which I also ask, is Capcom developing this or just publishing? Because if they're also developing it and their answer is "story reasons" then my response is "Pah-hahahahahahahahaaaaa 'story' reasons".
 

EvilRoy

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2xDouble said:
Considering the only story reason for the protegonist/s to be male is likely so they can seduce and/or shag "princess maguffin", I'd say that constitutes sexism. If there's another legit story-based reason, I've yet to hear it.
Children of Men from a less optimistic standpoint would do it.
 

Ipsen

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Pedro The Hutt said:
Regardless, it just goes to show how limited the abilities of fighting game character designers are if they can't make a compelling female character without sexualising her.
Wait, what? [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Makoto]

Now, your mileage may vary on considering this link 'compelling' or desexualized, but even if we're considering just the factor of compulsion, you have no say for anyone beyond yourself. This is as if you're arriving at the point of completely ignoring all other factors potentially attractive about these characters (you know, the thing both genders are supposed to like) in favor of shoving your view in our face. To reiterate, I don't think you mean that, but I'm sure being impressed that way.

If you want to say 'fighting games designers can't make compelling characters', then that's more fair, but still more of a reach, since you're getting even more general.

There's definitely an discussion to be had on what makes a character, and specifically a video game character compelling to any person.
 

Erttheking

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blackrave said:
erttheking said:
blackrave said:
At this point I'm convinced that women (and feminists especially) just like to complain.
Kind of a weird thing to say considering that it's well established that gamers like to complain about nearly everything a game has to offer and that people are never fully pleased with a game and will always find something to nitpick. For some reason gender seems to be the one taboo thing.
:D
True.
After reading my post once again I realized that I'm often COMPLAINING MYSELF :)
Let me correct myself
Akhem.
At this point I'm convinced that everyone (and members of religions/ideologies/subcultures especially) just like to complain about anything or even nothing (more often about nothing).
Got me there. I don't really have any kind of comeback for that one.
 

the December King

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It's a shame the devs felt they had to justify the maleness of even the the single protagonist. It is not short-sighted, nor is it wrong or sexist to have the protagonist as male, any more than it would be to have as female. It was a choice.

Mind you, that's assuming this was the truth and not a PR clean up op.
 

Mrmbe

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This is just activism for activism's sake. You don't have a female lead - sexist! You have a female lead but it's a bit on the butch/*****/whatever side - sexist! You have something I take no interest in but I also don't benefit from in any way - oh boy let's see - sexist! Me, me, me, me, hey everyone this one is , a god damn , now give me validation/attention/money to keep spouting the at people you don't know or would never care to qualify as anything close to a . If you don't give me more of me mine and all mine to me you must be , yeah a dirty !