Capcom Addresses Deep Down Sexism Controversy
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Final Fight?josemlopes said:
Although story behind Poison and Roxy is a bit more complicated
But still, can it be considered "sexism" against women?
If you make them women, male characters end up beating up women and as we all know such media is the main reason behind "epidemic of domestic violence" /sarcasm
If you make them transsexual, then you're omitting women from game at all and example above shows how well such thing is met
Either way developer loses
At this point I'm convinced that women (and feminists especially) just like to complain.
You know, I normally get on games for being sexist and even I find this criticism lacking. But saying that people should just stop making games to prove a point doesn't exactly make you the better man.havoc33 said:
Kind of a weird thing to say considering that it's well established that gamers like to complain about nearly everything a game has to offer and that people are never fully pleased with a game and will always find something to nitpick. For some reason gender seems to be the one taboo thing.blackrave said:
Interesting that we have a sexism article on the Escapist that isn't about physical appearance for a change. Not sure what to think about the lack of female characters in a story though; I wouldn't say it's necessarily sexist if the context demands it (a'la historical works for example). But if the plot reasons for not including female characters are along the lines of "In this universe, women suck at everything!" then that's not so ok.
I wouldn't say "Always", but regardless, I wouldn't say that male characters are "always" sexualised in fighting games, not by a long shot. Most still are male power fantasies, designed to appeal to males.josemlopes said:
Regardless, it just goes to show how limited the abilities of fighting game character designers are if they can't make a compelling female character without sexualising her. Besides, just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's alright. There was a time where segregation was the norm, aren't we glad that's in the past now?
erttheking said:
True.
After reading my post once again I realized that I'm often COMPLAINING MYSELF
Let me correct myself
Akhem.
At this point I'm convinced that everyone (and members of religions/ideologies/subcultures especially) just like to complain about anything or even nothing (more often about nothing).
Meh.
If its just one playable character it really isn't all that sexist. Not anymore so than the general tendency to focus mostly on male characters that is.
Sounds like this is more of a miscommunication clusterfuck than anything.
If its just one playable character it really isn't all that sexist. Not anymore so than the general tendency to focus mostly on male characters that is.
Sounds like this is more of a miscommunication clusterfuck than anything.
You're telling me you don't think Rufus [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Rufus] or Gen [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Gen] are total dreamboats? Actually, while we're on the subject, Makoto [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Makoto] is a good example of a non-sexualized female fighting game character.Pedro The Hutt said:
Probably the kinds of story that have that thing called inspiration.Oskuro said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt storytelling, or any art is concieved in a conceptual vacuum; all experience, and thus art are born from observation previously present. Even if the circumstances surrounding said observation are not currently socially acceptable.
Making a medieval themed game has basis in western medieval times, times that history would tell us had pretty much just men who went to battle. For this game to include women as combatants, you up-end the inspiration; not a problem, but it can be (sadly) a distraction. But that's the restriction of such an inspiration, and not so much a fault on part of the artist. The lack of vacuum applies to us, the audience as well; very rarely do we see a product as a true blank slate, and we do project expectations for inspired content like games, and while detraction is acceptable with consideration, it still sacrifices the core inspiration. Or would you rather we just not ever deal with medieval content again, or rewrite its history?
Overall, I just don't think this is a big issue at all, unless you actually want to make medieval history a problem of today.
While I have at least sympathy for equal gender representation, I find complaints like this, and some of its resulting echoed discussion kind of tired. Instead of using the attention gained from this fire-starting topic to bring up some useful ideas, like 'what are some gender-equal interactions or inspirations for story/setting that provide the maximum amount of design capability?' (and I don't think the answers are that hard), we'd rather just nitpick and bicker, as if the company involved (and perhaps even the audience too) were as evil and ignorant as EA.
If it doesn't have one of each minority, then it's racist.
If it DOES have one of each minority then they're just tokens and it's racist.
If it doesn't have women, then it's sexist.
If it DOES then they're either acting too much like men, too much like female stereotypes, they don't have enough screen time, they have character flaws or their gender is brought up somewhere along the way. And apparently that's sexist too.
If it doesn't have a Gender fluid otherkin in a wheel chair then it's transphobic, singlist and ableist.
Apparently, the simple lack of a representation of any type of race, gender, political alignment, degree of impairment or category of being makes you immediately a hateful bigot.
Have you guys ever heard of the satanic panic? It was when a relatively widespread and accepted doctrine (Christianity) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of satanic worship and child sacrifice. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere the looked and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of it's own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.
Now, have you guys ever heard of the Patriarchy panic? It was when a relatively wide spread and accepted doctrine (the ideal that women and indeed anyone of any race, gender or affiliation should be treated equally) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made up outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of controlled, planned, systematic sexism being perpetrated by anyone and everyone who clashed with their personal (and often internally contradictory) idea of what an "Equal" society should be. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere they looked (Such as the above) and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of its own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.
Which isn't to say that things are perfect and equal now; but we really need to stop this bizarre, kneejerk, reactionary sort of thing that screams "MISOGYNY!" at anything that doesn't have a woman (or the "right" kind of woman) in it. Because it's not helping the cause, it's just lowering the level of the dialog and in fact harming the chances of seeing more female and other less represented groups in media because of the sheer level of anger that any tiny misstep or perceived misstep can cause.
If it DOES have one of each minority then they're just tokens and it's racist.
If it doesn't have women, then it's sexist.
If it DOES then they're either acting too much like men, too much like female stereotypes, they don't have enough screen time, they have character flaws or their gender is brought up somewhere along the way. And apparently that's sexist too.
If it doesn't have a Gender fluid otherkin in a wheel chair then it's transphobic, singlist and ableist.
Apparently, the simple lack of a representation of any type of race, gender, political alignment, degree of impairment or category of being makes you immediately a hateful bigot.
Have you guys ever heard of the satanic panic? It was when a relatively widespread and accepted doctrine (Christianity) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of satanic worship and child sacrifice. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere the looked and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of it's own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.
Now, have you guys ever heard of the Patriarchy panic? It was when a relatively wide spread and accepted doctrine (the ideal that women and indeed anyone of any race, gender or affiliation should be treated equally) was, for a time, at least in the media, dominated by a frenzy of outspoken advocates from the lunatic fringe who made up outrageous claims about a grand conspiracy of controlled, planned, systematic sexism being perpetrated by anyone and everyone who clashed with their personal (and often internally contradictory) idea of what an "Equal" society should be. They found evidence of this conspiracy everywhere they looked (Such as the above) and their claims grew more and more grandiose until the entire thing collapsed under the weight of its own delusions as ordinary people began to realize that their supposed nemesis existed only in their heads.
Which isn't to say that things are perfect and equal now; but we really need to stop this bizarre, kneejerk, reactionary sort of thing that screams "MISOGYNY!" at anything that doesn't have a woman (or the "right" kind of woman) in it. Because it's not helping the cause, it's just lowering the level of the dialog and in fact harming the chances of seeing more female and other less represented groups in media because of the sheer level of anger that any tiny misstep or perceived misstep can cause.
Keep in mind, this is Capcom, who turned out to be the ONLY company willing to publish a game with a female lead that the developer fought to keep, "Remember Me". Short sighted this one, but sexist it is not. At least on the publishers part. Which I also ask, is Capcom developing this or just publishing? Because if they're also developing it and their answer is "story reasons" then my response is "Pah-hahahahahahahahaaaaa 'story' reasons".
Wait, what? [http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Makoto]Pedro The Hutt said:
Now, your mileage may vary on considering this link 'compelling' or desexualized, but even if we're considering just the factor of compulsion, you have no say for anyone beyond yourself. This is as if you're arriving at the point of completely ignoring all other factors potentially attractive about these characters (you know, the thing both genders are supposed to like) in favor of shoving your view in our face. To reiterate, I don't think you mean that, but I'm sure being impressed that way.
If you want to say 'fighting games designers can't make compelling characters', then that's more fair, but still more of a reach, since you're getting even more general.
There's definitely an discussion to be had on what makes a character, and specifically a video game character compelling to any person.
Got me there. I don't really have any kind of comeback for that one.blackrave said:erttheking said:
True.
After reading my post once again I realized that I'm often COMPLAINING MYSELF
Let me correct myself
Akhem.
At this point I'm convinced that everyone (and members of religions/ideologies/subcultures especially) just like to complain about anything or even nothing (more often about nothing).
It's a shame the devs felt they had to justify the maleness of even the the single protagonist. It is not short-sighted, nor is it wrong or sexist to have the protagonist as male, any more than it would be to have as female. It was a choice.
Mind you, that's assuming this was the truth and not a PR clean up op.
Mind you, that's assuming this was the truth and not a PR clean up op.
This is just activism for activism's sake. You don't have a female lead - sexist! You have a female lead but it's a bit on the butch/*****/whatever side - sexist! You have something I take no interest in but I also don't benefit from in any way - oh boy let's see - sexist! Me, me, me, me, hey everyone this one is , a god damn , now give me validation/attention/money to keep spouting the at people you don't know or would never care to qualify as anything close to a . If you don't give me more of me mine and all mine to me you must be , yeah a dirty !
Missing the point so hard it hurts. There's nothing at all wrong with a male protagonist. However, when you've widened the field enough to have TWELVE playable characters, and haven't thought to make a single one female, it deserves at least a bit of skepticism. THAT is what the complaints were about. But no, continue your own knee-jerking at anyone wanting a hint of representation in the current games industry.Mrmbe said:
As this was a miscommunication and there's only one main character, this really should be a non-issue.