Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else

[Casual Shinji]

You think comparing pre-MCU superhero/comic movies to post-MCU movies, to gauge overall quality of the genre and see if woman-led films compare, is an unfair comparison because a minority of big-budget pre-MCU films turned out good? You're proving my point, which is good superhero/comic book movies pre-MCU were outliers, and therefore the woman-led films should follow the same trend.

Which they did.

Which they didn't, since no good female superhero movie exists pre-MCU among the 10+ male ones that do. Superhero movies were already making a turn for the good at the start of the 2000's, yet the only female led movies we got were embarrassing turds like Catwoman and Elektra. As it stands Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel (judging from the overall reception) are the only competent-to-good female superhero movies. Even if that was pre-MCU that amount would've still been ridiculous.

Tank Girl, actually. Supergirl had the budget because it was privately financed by the Salkinds, the same people who financed all the Superman movies. They were vested in the IP, not individual characters. None of which disproves my point, because your counter-point is premised by it.

Then what was your point in bringing up Supergirl? To show an example of a female superhero movie that treats both its hero and its villain as silly girls who's motivation is fighting eachother over a guy? But that it's okay because it had a budget due to a popular IP that is synonomous with a male character?

Who? What very people were that? Or is this one of those cases were two or three tweets about it surfaced therefor 'SJWs hate Wonder Woman because she has shaved armpits'?

Mainstream media, actually. A simple Google search for "wonder woman armpits" reveals articles from Maxim, Forbes, HuffPo, Telegraph, Slate, and Independent. Hardly "two or three tweets". That's not the politics beat (for the feminism aspect), entertainment beat (for films in general), or genre beat (for geeky shit) -- that's mainstream coverage.

This was a much bigger deal than you're pretending it was. For some reason.

Which is why when people think of the Wonder Woman movie now they think of the shaved armpits controversy. Except, no they don't.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

Who knew that marketing to MORE PEOPLE might be MORE PROFITABLE?

Last metrics I saw, 55% of Captain Marvel viewers were men, and 74% of the demo split by age were 25+.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/captain-marvel-box-office-opening-weekend-record-1203160002/

Aquaman's audience was 56% women, and 71% of its demo split by age were 25+. Its biggest quadrant were women, 25+.

https://deadline.com/2018/12/aquaman-jason-momoa-marketing-won-women-over-1202525963/

#OopsiePoopsie

Stop trying to derail the narrative. We all know the men who saw Captain Marvel only did so to complain about it on the internet.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

To play devil's advocate, couldn't this also not be a case of every subsequent movie in the MCU generally making more money than the last one? There's also the motivation of this movie being the one to introduce the character that'll play an important part in the next Avengers. And then there's the fact that the movie literally has 'Marvel' in the title.

Eh, in regards to your first point, you get outliers. Things like both the Ant-Man films or Doctor Strange where they're testing out a new guy tend to take a dip in between fairly successful repeat outings. Could have been very possible that Captain Marvel, who'd never popped up in any film before (unlike Black Panther, who had a previous appearance before his own film) would have been seen as a filler/expository episode the same as them

 

[Hawki]

The Imperium was never the underdog in 40k. It's always had the most guns, the most territory, the most resources and the most bodies but it's so vast and it has so many enemies that its almost impossible to effectivly defend

That's true to a point, but what's hammered over and over is that life in the Imperium sucks. There is only war. It's a militant, xenophobic, regressive, ignorant body that governs the swathes of mankind with an iron fist, forcing their worship and killing billions of its own people if it comes down to it...and it's arguably one of the most morally upstanding factions in the setting despite that.

Even if the Imperium's the big boy, he's being picked on by everyone else and being bruised in the process.

and if anything 40k got MORE grimdark due to the return of Guilliman.

Think about it, Guilliman had the ENTIRE Imperium of man looking to HIM to fix everything and he hates what the Imperium has become. His only option is to fight a losing battle for something that is the antithesis of what he and his brother fought for.

That might suck for Guilliman, but it's a boon for the Imperium itself.

Also, the art style seems to have undergone a shift recently - far more use of gold and blue for instance. There's a kind of resplendance in the Imperium now that wasnt' really there previously.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

I find it funny there was more feminism in the marketing than the actual film, which, if I'm honest, is a little dishonest advertising if you ask me.

I do like Marvel movies so I'll probably see this one, I'm just hoping they're giving cap an actual character flaw to overcome, a sacrifice to make and a slice of humble pie for dessert like every other major Marvel frontliner.

It sounds super tropey, but I actually like this trope.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

I do like Marvel movies so I'll probably see this one, I'm just hoping they're giving cap an actual character flaw to overcome, a sacrifice to make and a slice of humble pie for dessert like every other major Marvel frontliner.

I'm almost tempted to say you've seen it and are being sarcastic.

 

[Avnger]

Who knew that marketing to MORE PEOPLE might be MORE PROFITABLE?

Last metrics I saw, 55% of Captain Marvel viewers were men, and 74% of the demo split by age were 25+.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/captain-marvel-box-office-opening-weekend-record-1203160002/

Aquaman's audience was 56% women, and 71% of its demo split by age were 25+. Its biggest quadrant were women, 25+.

https://deadline.com/2018/12/aquaman-jason-momoa-marketing-won-women-over-1202525963/

#OopsiePoopsie

Stop trying to derail the narrative. We all know the men who saw Captain Marvel only did so to complain about it on the internet.

You might want to put that thing back in the corn field before the farmer finds out you stole it...

 

[Combustion Kevin]

I do like Marvel movies so I'll probably see this one, I'm just hoping they're giving cap an actual character flaw to overcome, a sacrifice to make and a slice of humble pie for dessert like every other major Marvel frontliner.

I'm almost tempted to say you've seen it and are being sarcastic.

I have not, but I find your response rather ominous.

 

[Schadrach]

A combination of Brie Larson daring to "shriek" (calmly state when interviewed) that "white people and men don't deserve opinions" (a more diverse group of film critics is a good thing) and morons truly believing "get woke, go broke."

Wasn't it closer to stating that whenever possible she didn't want to deal with white men in the press and in the position she's in now she has some power to make that a thing, or something to that effect?

The best part is that if she'd wanted to exclude any other demographic group from her press dealings (except maybe straight people) all the people supporting her would be suddenly violently opposed (imagine if someone said they didn't want to deal with [for example] Latina women in the press!)

Of course, like everyone else trying to be "woke", she's just one wrong statement away from the shitlist. Like Terry Crews and the drastic change in reaction when he went from "men are bad" statements like how he was abused by a man or talking about toxic masculinity to when he suggested that paternal influence was important for children and in came the outrage.

 

[Trunkage]

A combination of Brie Larson daring to "shriek" (calmly state when interviewed) that "white people and men don't deserve opinions" (a more diverse group of film critics is a good thing) and morons truly believing "get woke, go broke."

Wasn't it closer to stating that whenever possible she didn't want to deal with white men in the press and in the position she's in now she has some power to make that a thing, or something to that effect?

The best part is that if she'd wanted to exclude any other demographic group from her press dealings (except maybe straight people) all the people supporting her would be suddenly violently opposed (imagine if someone said they didn't want to deal with [for example] Latina women in the press!)

Of course, like everyone else trying to be "woke", she's just one wrong statement away from the shitlist. Like Terry Crews and the drastic change in reaction when he went from "men are bad" statements like how he was abused by a man or talking about toxic masculinity to when he suggested that paternal influence was important for children and in came the outrage.

Here's what she said https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/brie-larsons-i-do-not-hate-white-dudes-lack-of-inclusion-film-critics-1201974617/

Specifically, she's not very interested in HEARING 40 year old male reviewers as this might not be the movie for them. You know, like I can tell something like a Romcom is not made for me.

I emphasized hearing because she's not banning men. She's also noticed that most reviewers are white men thus she is looking for a great view of opinions.

It's not banning white men. It's signal boosting everyone else.

 

[Avnger]

The best part is that if she'd wanted to exclude any other demographic group from her press dealings (except maybe straight people) all the people supporting her would be suddenly violently opposed (imagine if someone said they didn't want to deal with [for example] Latina women in the press!)

Of course, like everyone else trying to be "woke", she's just one wrong statement away from the shitlist. Like Terry Crews and the drastic change in reaction when he went from "men are bad" statements like how he was abused by a man or talking about toxic masculinity to when he suggested that paternal influence was important for children and in came the outrage.

Do you often conjure up fantasies where a person you've decided to hate takes a different action than real life in a societal and historical context that is also completely different in order to feel outraged?

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

The best part is that if she'd wanted to exclude any other demographic group from her press dealings (except maybe straight people) all the people supporting her would be suddenly violently opposed (imagine if someone said they didn't want to deal with [for example] Latina women in the press!)

Of course, like everyone else trying to be "woke", she's just one wrong statement away from the shitlist. Like Terry Crews and the drastic change in reaction when he went from "men are bad" statements like how he was abused by a man or talking about toxic masculinity to when he suggested that paternal influence was important for children and in came the outrage.

Do you often conjure up fantasies where a person you've decided to hate takes a different action than real life in a societal and historical context that is also completely different in order to feel outraged?

In fairness the left has a tendency to eat itself.

 

[Abomination]

Specifically, she's not very interested in HEARING 40 year old male reviewers as this might not be the movie for them. You know, like I can tell something like a Romcom is not made for me.

I'm not interested in hearing what women have to say about {Movie}, it's not for them.

It's an MCU film, it's for everyone. Just like how every other Disney film is for everyone.

You don't become the powerhouse that is Disney by releasing blockbuster films that exclude a demographic.

If the genders of the speaker and the group whose opinions they did not wish to listen to were reversed, it'd be labelled as incredibly sexist.

The film was fine, not incredible, but it certainly linked Captain Marvel to the MCU and set her up for Endgame. The marketing surrounding it though was just unpleasant. "She's a girl! She's a GIRL! SHE'S A GIRL!"

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

Considering that the MCU only got a feature film with a heroine as the sole lead in its 20th outing it is sort of special, no? Considering how rare blockbuster movies with a woman in the sole lead role is, it definitely is sort of special.

I realize that for the average man it might not seem notable, but for women looking for female protagonists leading movies, it can be very notable just how few there are.

 

[McElroy]

I realize that for the average man it might not seem notable, but for women looking for female protagonists leading movies, it can be very notable just how few there are.

It's such a Chicken-Egg situation. Would audiences watch just as many action-adventure movies if there were more female leads in them? Can't know for sure, because there has never been anything even close to a "saturation" of them. Like it would be tough for somebody who sees a handful of movies in a theater each year to only watch action movies with female leads -- let alone for a movie-enthusiast. The previous movie like that I saw in theaters was Mulan. No wait, I think Mortal Engines counts. Ruined that record now didn't I...

 

[Avnger]

The best part is that if she'd wanted to exclude any other demographic group from her press dealings (except maybe straight people) all the people supporting her would be suddenly violently opposed (imagine if someone said they didn't want to deal with [for example] Latina women in the press!)

Of course, like everyone else trying to be "woke", she's just one wrong statement away from the shitlist. Like Terry Crews and the drastic change in reaction when he went from "men are bad" statements like how he was abused by a man or talking about toxic masculinity to when he suggested that paternal influence was important for children and in came the outrage.

Do you often conjure up fantasies where a person you've decided to hate takes a different action than real life in a societal and historical context that is also completely different in order to feel outraged?

In fairness the left has a tendency to eat itself.

Who said anything about "the left" or "the right?"

 

[Saelune]

Specifically, she's not very interested in HEARING 40 year old male reviewers as this might not be the movie for them. You know, like I can tell something like a Romcom is not made for me.

I'm not interested in hearing what women have to say about {Movie}, it's not for them.

It's an MCU film, it's for everyone. Just like how every other Disney film is for everyone.

You don't become the powerhouse that is Disney by releasing blockbuster films that exclude a demographic.

If the genders of the speaker and the group whose opinions they did not wish to listen to were reversed, it'd be labelled as incredibly sexist.

The film was fine, not incredible, but it certainly linked Captain Marvel to the MCU and set her up for Endgame. The marketing surrounding it though was just unpleasant. "She's a girl! She's a GIRL! SHE'S A GIRL!"

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

Just because you don't personally appreciate how big a deal it is, doesn't mean it is not a big deal.


The US has never had a female president, it only just recently had a black one. How can nearly half the country be female and in over 2 centuries not have a female president!? In a supposedly fair and equal society, that is statistically unlikely. Maybe, just maybe, it is because sexism is still alive and well, and maybe your own privilaged male view is a product of that very sexism.

Now you COULD reflect on that and maybe atlreast try to understand the other side, or you could continue to dismiss it because you lack understanding of women's issues.

And I say this as someone who myself used to lack understanding of women's issues. Even as a trans person, I didnt grow up being put down by a mindset that as a female I have to abide by very different and really unfair rules, and the more I learn about these from actual women, the more I realize how fucked up women have it, and that women arent a minority the way LGBT people are actually makes it MORE fucked up, because HOW IS HALF THE WORLD ALLOWED TO BE TREATED SO POORLY!?


Women are not treated the same as men, and we wont fix that by pretending otherwise.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

you're expending an awful amount of energy decrying something you claim is no more or less special than anything else

knucklesthefeminist.jpg

 

[Trunkage]

Specifically, she's not very interested in HEARING 40 year old male reviewers as this might not be the movie for them. You know, like I can tell something like a Romcom is not made for me.

I'm not interested in hearing what women have to say about {Movie}, it's not for them.

It's an MCU film, it's for everyone. Just like how every other Disney film is for everyone.

You don't become the powerhouse that is Disney by releasing blockbuster films that exclude a demographic.

If the genders of the speaker and the group whose opinions they did not wish to listen to were reversed, it'd be labelled as incredibly sexist.

The film was fine, not incredible, but it certainly linked Captain Marvel to the MCU and set her up for Endgame. The marketing surrounding it though was just unpleasant. "She's a girl! She's a GIRL! SHE'S A GIRL!"

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

I would have guess of who she is talking about, but considering the outcry of some men (its only a small portion, but very vocal) around Captain Marvel existing, she's stating that this movie is not for them.

Don't hate Captain Marvel automatically? Without even reaching cinemas? No? Well then, she's not talking about you. Stop making things about yourself that have nothing to do with you.

 

[Saelune]

I would have guess of who she is talking about, but considering the outcry of some men (its only a small portion, but very vocal) around Captain Marvel existing, she's stating that this movie is not for them.

Don't hate Captain Marvel automatically? Without even reaching cinemas? No? Well then, she's not talking about you. Stop making things about yourself that have nothing to do with you.

Specifically, she's not very interested in HEARING 40 year old male reviewers as this might not be the movie for them.

Never said it was ever about me. I'm not a reviewer. But as you said, she specifically doesn't want to hear the opinion of 40 year old men. Because fuck those guys, right?

But when she said that demographic she didn't actually MEAN that demographic. Just people who are sort of like that demographic and don't like the film for a specific reason, but she's not going to articulate it that way, rather she's going to specify a demographic based on sex, age, and ethnicity.

While I do fall under two of those three categories, and am within 10 years of meeting all three, I can still call such comments toxic as they are sexist, racist, and age discriminatory in nature... replace man with woman and white with black and uh-oh, that's a naughty thing suddenly.

Like, okay, wow, yes. A girl superhero. Just as special as everyone else.

you're expending an awful amount of energy decrying something you claim is no more or less special than anything else

And in this upcoming blockbuster, you had best watch out, there's a new MAN here to save us all. This MAN will do everything in his power to save you. The hero all MEN have been waiting for!

The advertising was twee. Painting the fact that she's a woman as the most important thing about the character. When, just like with male heroes, the fact they are male is one of the least important things about them.

The US has never had a female president, it only just recently had a black one. How can nearly half the country be female and in over 2 centuries not have a female president!? In a supposedly fair and equal society, that is statistically unlikely. Maybe, just maybe, it is because sexism is still alive and well, and maybe your own privilaged male view is a product of that very sexism.

Presiden-- wuh? This is a Disney superhero movie...

My male privileged view?

God damn you're toxic.

You want to pretend sexism doesn't exist. I am not the toxic one here.