Thanos is traditionally the architect of his own defeat so it would be entierly within keeping of his character.Johnny Novgorod said:
Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else
- Thread starter Saelune
- Start date
Man that made me giggle and think ?Okay guys, there is such a thing as too on the nose?Kenbo Slice said:
I saw this last night and then saw Alita (again) after it. Captain Marvel is fine; nothing groudbreaking or game changing.
Isn't this what Emma Watson said in her feminist speech a few years back, about how feminism is often associated with man-hating (implying that it's associated with wanting to push men down to promote women basically) and how to strive to undo that and so on.trunkage said:When I heard the quote, I didn't think it was abrasive at all, I just saw someone trying to speak to their audience. But after someone pointing it out, I can understand their point of view.Dreiko said:I'm not entirely certain that is the same quote I had in mind but either way it's less about facial expression and more about uhh, neck movement, I guess?trunkage said:The quote is earlier in this thread. Pretty much says, "I want to hear from not just white 40 year old guys." Which, of course, should be offensive to anyone.Dreiko said:She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.Neurotic Void Melody said:
I'll be glad to prove her wrong!
She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.
Could have she worded it nicer so it doesn't trigger white guys? Sure. Hence her point about not trying to exclude them later.
As a person who is 'targeted' by Larsen? People being offended are just making mountains out of molehills. It's like when you called her smug. Because smug now seems to mean 'I dont like what their saying' rather than a facial expression.
Point mainly is that this is just the actress' own personality that's abrasive and it has little to do with the movie. Sure, it was in connection to the movie, but it's unfair to blame the movie that has a ton of people working on it cause this one actress behaves the way she does. I can see blaming her all you want but you can't apply her flaws to the fictional world of the movie or even to the character that she portrays because that world is governed by the writers so she can say she hates white men or whatever but if the writer writes her into a neonazi concubine in the next one her character will morph into that irrespective of whatever her feelings on white men are. Even if she were to refuse to play that character and they got someone else to do it it'd still be the same character.
Separate art from the artist and judge works in a vacuum, that's the only fair approach.
Now, let's take an example of something that could equally be seen as abrasive around the same topic. This is my Prime Minister's speech on International Women's Day;
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/svgscomoiwdspeech0903/video/a12afbf8f2ef5cb0c790f4be50066577
Sorry, haven't found a clip without commentary on it that isn't part of some news corporation. TLDR: we aren't going to push men down to uplift women. Which hasn't been what any Feminist has said. It also implies that women just need to wait their turn before their allowed in, which is pretty much a summary of Patriarchy (which is a problem with a system and not a targeting of actual people unless they are corrupting the system.)
So, he's speaking to his audience (as a conservative). Don't worry, men. Women wont take your jobs. But trying to uplift women. This too could be said much better. I personally can see what he's trying to say and wont call him a sexist because he's made a gaffe. I don't hold Larsen, because who was commenting specifically on her movie, because she said a gaffe. I'll try to listen to what she meant, especially since she tried to clarify it.
I don't think it's quite the same level as calling your core audience out as being entitled, just because they have been the main pillars that supports your industry (how can you even be entitled for expecting something out of a fandom you created and supported for deacdes). That one is a gaffe that needed clarification while the other is a real thing that's really contemplated out there and needs addressing.
But the "wait your turn" thing is interesting. It's certainly not right that that's the case whenever it is. I just don't see a cure to it that's not significantly worse than the disease. I think you need to be careful not conflating someone not liking how you fix women having to wait their turn with them wanting women to never get their turn. One does not necessarily show the presence of the other.
Isn't it better if everyone rises more overall but women still fail to fully catch up than if women caught up but the things we had to do to allow them means there's less overall progress so everyone's comparatively worse off despite there being equality. This is what I think the PM was trying to illustrate in that video.
BLACK PANTHER DOES NOT PORTRAY WAKANDA'S ISOLATIONIST STATE AS ANYTHING BESIDES CAUSING BAD SHIT. THAT IS LITERALLY THE POINT OF THE MOVIE. IT IS LITERALLY TEXT.Dreiko said:
The only way Wakanda is more tolerated is because our cultural zeitgeist *knows* that an all-White ethnostate is A Bad Thing right out the gate. Black Panther argues that ethnistates are bad regardless of race.
It would be like saying A Christmas Carol could make an argument for why Scrooge was right to be a miser. (Another argument these galaxy brains occasionally attempt)
To use a real world example of how an Ethnostate was bad. Say hello to Edo Period Japan.altnameJag said:
Where they were literally frozen in time until the 19th Century.
Far too many times, everything is framed as either or. Either the men get trampled on while women get jobs or vice versa. It wasn't many Feminists original attempt but there were many militants feminists back in the day who were way worse than Antifa today. Words like Femininism and Patriarchy do have a large negative connotation from a long sorted history. It's similar to how people use the confederate flag and state rights and think it can't be disentangled from racism. Or the current push to disentangle Communionism from Soveits. Yes, Lenin was a pyshcopath, willing to kill other Commuionists who didn't follow his brand.Dreiko said:Isn't this what Emma Watson said in her feminist speech a few years back, about how feminism is often associated with man-hating (implying that it's associated with wanting to push men down to promote women basically) and how to strive to undo that and so on.trunkage said:When I heard the quote, I didn't think it was abrasive at all, I just saw someone trying to speak to their audience. But after someone pointing it out, I can understand their point of view.Dreiko said:I'm not entirely certain that is the same quote I had in mind but either way it's less about facial expression and more about uhh, neck movement, I guess?trunkage said:The quote is earlier in this thread. Pretty much says, "I want to hear from not just white 40 year old guys." Which, of course, should be offensive to anyone.Dreiko said:She said something along the lines of the movie not being made for white men while being smug and shaking her head in an annoying angle or some such.Neurotic Void Melody said:
I'll be glad to prove her wrong!
She later was apparently pressured by her publicist into walking these comments back somewhat with a tepid "I just wanna include more people not restrict some" and whatnot platitude. Though all that stuff is kinda noise when talking about the movie. It's all about the personality of the actress and her politics and whatnot. Completely unimportant stuff when in the context of a fictional story.
Could have she worded it nicer so it doesn't trigger white guys? Sure. Hence her point about not trying to exclude them later.
As a person who is 'targeted' by Larsen? People being offended are just making mountains out of molehills. It's like when you called her smug. Because smug now seems to mean 'I dont like what their saying' rather than a facial expression.
Point mainly is that this is just the actress' own personality that's abrasive and it has little to do with the movie. Sure, it was in connection to the movie, but it's unfair to blame the movie that has a ton of people working on it cause this one actress behaves the way she does. I can see blaming her all you want but you can't apply her flaws to the fictional world of the movie or even to the character that she portrays because that world is governed by the writers so she can say she hates white men or whatever but if the writer writes her into a neonazi concubine in the next one her character will morph into that irrespective of whatever her feelings on white men are. Even if she were to refuse to play that character and they got someone else to do it it'd still be the same character.
Separate art from the artist and judge works in a vacuum, that's the only fair approach.
Now, let's take an example of something that could equally be seen as abrasive around the same topic. This is my Prime Minister's speech on International Women's Day;
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/svgscomoiwdspeech0903/video/a12afbf8f2ef5cb0c790f4be50066577
Sorry, haven't found a clip without commentary on it that isn't part of some news corporation. TLDR: we aren't going to push men down to uplift women. Which hasn't been what any Feminist has said. It also implies that women just need to wait their turn before their allowed in, which is pretty much a summary of Patriarchy (which is a problem with a system and not a targeting of actual people unless they are corrupting the system.)
So, he's speaking to his audience (as a conservative). Don't worry, men. Women wont take your jobs. But trying to uplift women. This too could be said much better. I personally can see what he's trying to say and wont call him a sexist because he's made a gaffe. I don't hold Larsen, because who was commenting specifically on her movie, because she said a gaffe. I'll try to listen to what she meant, especially since she tried to clarify it.
I don't think it's quite the same level as calling your core audience out as being entitled, just because they have been the main pillars that supports your industry (how can you even be entitled for expecting something out of a fandom you created and supported for deacdes). That one is a gaffe that needed clarification while the other is a real thing that's really contemplated out there and needs addressing.
But the "wait your turn" thing is interesting. It's certainly not right that that's the case whenever it is. I just don't see a cure to it that's not significantly worse than the disease. I think you need to be careful not conflating someone not liking how you fix women having to wait their turn with them wanting women to never get their turn. One does not necessarily show the presence of the other.
Isn't it better if everyone rises more overall but women still fail to fully catch up than if women caught up but the things we had to do to allow them means there's less overall progress so everyone's comparatively worse off despite there being equality. This is what I think the PM was trying to illustrate in that video.
I don't know the cure for all this, Feminists still are being blamed for actions 150 years ago, the South is still seen as racist when many have reformed. The "Patriarchy" hurts men just as much as it hurts women (just in different ways) but we still focus on women. Many times a minority is picked over a white guy, some see it erasure of 'Western culture' while others see it as affirmative action working properly. 'Illegal immigrant take my job' is a common catch cry, but a business owner would prefer to use someone who speak English, has the same work ethic and wont get you in trouble for habourig a fugitive.
LBJ kept telling MLK to wait for Civil Righte Law. They had already been waiting since the Civil War, but, somehow it still wasn't the right time. It's very pervasive in Left circles. In my country, homosexual waited 40 years between legalising homosexuality and legalising same sex marriage. Trans rights is the next thing they waiting on. My suggestion for conservatives is that you talk about lifting up people (which is what the PM did) not how giving one person a place hurts someone else place (which he also said, and makes it seem like there's no actual room.)
Someone just spoil the movie for me. I saw Infinity War without watching Civil War, Black Panther, Ragnarok, Doctor Strange, Spiderman, and Guardians 2 and I didn't feel like I missed out on anything.
I believe the same result will happen when I watch Endgame.
I believe the same result will happen when I watch Endgame.
He obviously never saw the movie.altnameJag said:
It's really sad how easy it is to tell between those who actually experience something and those who regurgitate talking points from anti-"SJW" youtube videos about it.
Myeah, villains dying a death of their own making is a noticeable trend in the MCU, tho the Guardians kind of buck it. Killed both their villains. Ronan through the power of friendship (+ an infinity stone) and Ego got his mind blown. Then again, they're rather explicitly anti-heroes.Johnny Novgorod said:
Well look at that, another bunch of assholes with nothing better to do with their lives. Either they're not getting any or they suck at relationships.Hawki said:
Oh please, no need to insult Alita. Her falling head over heels for Hugo is in the manga. And for the record, she doesn't get another love interest again as the manga goes on. Besides, having her like a guy does not make her weak. Nor is it her defining character trait. You are entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong on this one. Specifically the Alita drooling over a guy part. I don't care about the other two parts you said.Saelune said:
omg the author actually calls themself tyler durden, haha! of course they do. that's adorableHawki said: