CD Projekt Red orders mandatory crunch for employees ahead of Cyberpunk 2077 launch

Dwarvenhobble

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But that's bad management too!
To an extent. It could just be more stuff connected than people realised to the systems or they broke more stuff as they changed them. It happens sometimes. You can't plan for everything really.
 

Gethsemani

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To an extent. It could just be more stuff connected than people realised to the systems or they broke more stuff as they changed them. It happens sometimes. You can't plan for everything really.
I mean, you could be right. Making computer games, particularly AAA open worlds, is hard and the codebase tends to be very integrated. But starting to fiddle with core systems in anything more then a polish or bug fixing way late in development is, as others have already said, bad management. It suggests you didn't budget enough time to get the core systems down earlier in development.

It is, of course, entirely possible that they realized that something didn't mesh with the rest of the game (ie. the driving) and had to scramble back to give it another pass because it was bringing the game down every time you had to get into the car. It is possible the problems weren't obvious until the driving was fully integrated into an actual gameplay loop on a beta version. But then the sane thing to do is to post pone again, even if by a few weeks, to make sure that the driving is up to the standard of the rest of the game. Not to try and force the team to solve the issue by working more, harder and under a massive time pressure (while doing all their usual stuff like polishing and bug hunting) that means they might find a great solution they can't realistically implement in the narrow time frame they've been given.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I mean, you could be right. Making computer games, particularly AAA open worlds, is hard and the codebase tends to be very integrated. But starting to fiddle with core systems in anything more then a polish or bug fixing way late in development is, as others have already said, bad management. It suggests you didn't budget enough time to get the core systems down earlier in development.

It is, of course, entirely possible that they realized that something didn't mesh with the rest of the game (ie. the driving) and had to scramble back to give it another pass because it was bringing the game down every time you had to get into the car. It is possible the problems weren't obvious until the driving was fully integrated into an actual gameplay loop on a beta version. But then the sane thing to do is to post pone again, even if by a few weeks, to make sure that the driving is up to the standard of the rest of the game. Not to try and force the team to solve the issue by working more, harder and under a massive time pressure (while doing all their usual stuff like polishing and bug hunting) that means they might find a great solution they can't realistically implement in the narrow time frame they've been given.
Or maybe even not publicly announce a release date until they are certain the game is locked in and all systems are go. I’m thinking about all these games that were announced so early, given release dates early, and end up getting delayed anyways. That announcement really didn’t do anything but let down the consumers, depress the teams and tarnish their reputations.
 

Exley97

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Just gonna add this in because it kind of helps point out perspective



They point out about Labour laws etc and you know how the Pandemic likely disrupted things.
The article also mentions the country's labor laws and what employees will earn as a result of the overtime.

I'm getting the distinct feeling that many people didn't actually read the article before commenting.
 

Exley97

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I’m curious how many hours a week Jason Schrier works. Would be kinda ironic if it’s more than the people he’s trying to “protect”.
A major, critically-lauded developer with the most anticipated new game of 2020 goes back on its promise NOT to force employees to crunch, and doesn't really give a good reason WHY it's mandating crunch, and somehow this has become a referendum on Jason Schreier's attitude, social media presence and work schedule. I find that extremely odd.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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A major, critically-lauded developer with the most anticipated new game of 2020 goes back on its promise NOT to force employees to crunch, and doesn't really give a good reason WHY it's mandating crunch, and somehow this has become a referendum on Jason Schreier's attitude, social media presence and work schedule. I find that extremely odd.
Point still stands if it were a pot calling kettle situation.
 

Avnger

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Point still stands if it were a pot calling kettle situation.
No? Mr. Schreier (hypothetically) being exploited by his employer has absolutely no bearing on his reporting of CDPR employees being exploited.
 
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Gethsemani

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Point still stands if it were a pot calling kettle situation.
I'm not sure it is much of a point. There's a distinct difference between voluntary overtime for an employee or a self-employed person choosing to work long hours and forcing someone to work overtime. Especially if the compulsory overtime is for an extended period of time.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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No? Mr. Schreier (hypothetically) being exploited by his employer has absolutely no bearing on his reporting of CDPR employees being exploited.
I'm not sure it is much of a point. There's a distinct difference between voluntary overtime for an employee or a self-employed person choosing to work long hours and forcing someone to work overtime. Especially if the compulsory overtime is for an extended period of time.

You’re reading too much into it. I merely said it would be ironic if he’s working more than the people he’s considering victims for being overworked. Being forced or not is beside the point of the fact that hours are hours, which seems to be the main concern. Also if it were the case I’m pretty sure Jason doesn’t punch a clock either, so there’s a chance he isn’t being properly compensated for his efforts like CDPR’s staff, but I digress.

In any case, CDPR are who ultimately have to explain why they reneged on their previous statement.
 

CriticalGaming

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You’re reading too much into it. I merely said it would be ironic if he’s working more than the people he’s considering victims for being overworked. Being forced or not is beside the point of the fact that hours are hours, which seems to be the main concern. Also if it were the case I’m pretty sure Jason doesn’t punch a clock either, so there’s a chance he isn’t being properly compensated for his efforts like CDPR’s staff, but I digress.

In any case, CDPR are who ultimately have to explain why they reneged on their previous statement.
I mean it if technically just as unhealthy to overwork regardless on it being your choice or not isnt it.

Toby fox putting in endless hours to make undertale is just as bad for him as it is for anyone working for a major development studio. But nobody would yell at Toby because it is his choice right?

Just like these developers choose to continue to work for a studio. As if being an employee means you have to be coddled like a bunch of babies. You arent allowed to hear anything naughty, you arent allowed to work more than your assigned alottment of hours, you arent allowed to be asked to do any extra assignments because that's oppressive or something.

I mean it feels like all this outrage has come from people's emotions needing to be babysat these days. My father used to work two jobs 6 days a week to keep food on the table. And he never once complained or wrote crybaby articles about it.

There should be a line drawn as to what is abusive work and what is okay.

Oh wait.....there are already laws for that and CDPR is following them. So there is nothing wrong here right?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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The article also mentions the country's labor laws and what employees will earn as a result of the overtime.

I'm getting the distinct feeling that many people didn't actually read the article before commenting.
ah but not the limit on overtime specifically both per week and per year.
 

Baffle

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I'm getting the distinct feeling that many people didn't actually read the article before commenting.
I 100% did not read the article, but I don't need to read it to know that mandatory crunch to release a video game is wrong.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I mean it if technically just as unhealthy to overwork regardless on it being your choice or not isnt it.

Toby fox putting in endless hours to make undertale is just as bad for him as it is for anyone working for a major development studio. But nobody would yell at Toby because it is his choice right?
I'll yell at Toby and you can't stop me. He's injured now. Repetitive stress injury
 

happyninja42

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CDProjekt are renowned for their incompetent management skills. This blew up in their faces just after Witcher 3 was released. Clearly they have learnt nothing, just as they didnt in the lead up to Witcher 3. Why is cant be delayed a few weeks to get it right, I'll never understand.
Well it boils down to marketing. They have planned release dates, that coincide with projected ideal times to put out these products. You consider other big titles that might release same time, and thus rival yours, and potentially pull customers that are only budgeting for one game away from you. Holiday sale spikes to consider. All that kind of stuff.

I agree that it would be nice for them to push the deadline forward indefinitely, but I'm pretty sure, some of the financial backing they get from sponsors and what not, probably have stipulations in there on when the game will release, and how much push back they allow.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Jim and many people have said it's a failure of management for there to ever be crunch. But what if the employee's just fucked up? Like what if Bob in sound engineering completely fucked the pooch and now none of the sound systems work which force the rest of the team to stay extra to fix it all?

That's not a mistake in management, it's something completely out of their control because humans work on games and humans can make mistakes that have consequences.

Again these are businesses and there is a cost to everything and at some point games reach the point in which they cannot be delayed anymore. The option then is to release the game broken, and fix it later (which the public has been known to love). Or put the company in overtime mode to try and get things as right as possible before final certification.

I'm just trying to be fair to the context of things. And that's something we never truly get with most of these articles. They almost always just report the crunch as the devil and never address the why of the crunch.

Could be a dev team fuck up. Could be a management fuck up. But the public wants to always blame the people in charge without exception. (see the state of politics) But nothing happens in a vacuum.
 
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