CliffyB: Microtransaction is Not a Dirty Word, EA is Not The Bad Guy

cidbahamut

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I'm glad someone's pointing out the hero-worship/demonization cognitive dissonance that's going on in regards to Valve and EA.

That said, microtransactions are still a pile of horseshit.

If you can't make the bottom line profitable on box sales alone then you need to re-evaluate how you're making use of those development resources. (hint: good game design does not cost hundreds of millions of dollars)
 

Zombie_Moogle

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While CliffyB seems to be ignoring the vast difference in how EA & Valve handle DLC & microtransactions, I have to applaud him for one statement that I've been banging on about for a while now:

"If you don't like EA, don't buy their games,"

As much as gamers love to ***** about EA, often with good reason, they sure don't seem to mind making them rich for doing the things gamers seem to hate.
I take issue with many things in Origin's EULA, which I express by not using Origin
You want publishers to stop nickel'n'dime-ing us with DLC? THEN STOP BUYING THE DAMN DLC!

Ranting about it on forums doesn't change the fact that you keep giving them dump trucks full of money
 

The Great JT

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Cliff, Mr. Blez...uh, Blizin...er...Cliff, if you're tired of EA being seen as "the bad guy," maybe they need to stop BEING the bad guy. TF2 is free to play and any of the sidegrade items you can craft or find as drops with the store being a way of guaranteeing you get what you want. The store is there to supplement the game. EA, however, is putting in microtransactions as the preferred way to get upgrades in the multiplayer add-on to a single-player focused game. There, the store is there to be the full focus of the side game.

As for the whole "vote with our wallets" thing, I agree with that, which is why I haven't bought any of the Gears of War games. Ah, gotcha! You should see your face, Cliffy. Yes, I can see you right now. I am an internet wizard, you know, we have mystical cyber-scrying powers. It involves rythmic chanting into our webcams, but I can say no more lest I incur the wrath of the Internet Wizard Secret Enforcement Commission (we're working on something catchier). Back on topic, though. Really I think it comes down to "maybe we would if Corporate would stop thinking about short-term numbers and care about long-term gain." I hate to drag this one out of mothballs, but remember Psychonauts? Awesome game, great premise, sold terribly, incredibly beloved by fans. Took a shot, didn't pan out monetarily. That's just how it goes sometimes. What I'm saying is maybe someone could come up with a business model where you make these big AAA games that are going to make oodles because that's what the online multiplayer crowd wants (Gears of War, for example) while you've got subsidiary companies making the deeper games that aren't going to break first-day sales records but are going to be held up as much-loved examples of triumph in video game storytelling. Yes you can make the AAA oodle-making games deep and tell complex stories, we're not going to begrudge you for that. Just leave some space on the "good story" shelf for the little games too.
 

Lt. Rocky

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I can agree with Cliffy's thoughts towards Origin to an extent. Once upon a time Steam was a terrible little program I wish I didn't have to put up with in order to play Half-life 2, but eventually it grew up and became a great service and wonderful conveniance. With enough time Origins could make a similar rise and become a steady competitor.
 

Krantos

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Valve exists to make money.

EA exists to make money.

However, they do these things in very different ways. Dear Mr. B. Please refer to Jimquisition Episodes "Why do People Hate EA" and "Games Need to Make Money"

K? K.
 

Uratoh

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RatherDull said:
Hey, remember a time when games look like pixel blocks and controlled with just a joystick and a single button? We should cut Aliens Colonial Marines some slack because that's how things were back then!
I think Evil Otto had better pathfinding AI than the aliens, too.
 

Absolutionis

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Lt. Rocky said:
I can agree with Cliffy's thoughts towards Origin to an extent. Once upon a time Steam was a terrible little program I wish I didn't have to put up with in order to play Half-life 2, but eventually it grew up and became a great service and wonderful conveniance. With enough time Origins could make a similar rise and become a steady competitor.
EA's answer to Steam came out two years after Steam was released. They've been trying to make Origin 'good' for eight years now. How much more time do you think they need?
 

AzrealMaximillion

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Andy Shandy said:
The reason Valve gets away with it because they sell novelty items, stuff that isn't particularly helpful, just stuff that's sort of neat.

EA's way of doing it on the other hand come across as trying to grab as much money out of people's wallets as quick as they can. So long as EA keeps treating their customers as money harvesters instead of actual people, they'll be seen as the bad guy.
To be fair, you do have to buy keys to open crates in TF2, and crates are the most frequent random drop. Most people who have a lot of items in TF2 got them from crates. Very rarely do hats and guns actually appears as drops. This seems to be the point that everyone in this thread is ignoring with TF2. If you have an ass load of TF2 items, chances are you've spent about the same amount as buying an EA games and then some on just keys. And that's before just buying items straight up.

And also, most of the items you get in TF2 have some kind of effect that makes them better than the base weapons, so saying that TF2 items don't effect the game is a lie. TF2's advantage is that its F2P, but let's be real here, it tries to grab your money in a more aggressive fashion than most EA microtransactions. TF2 items sets come out and are hunted down like Magic Card sets. Its quite ravenous and quite lucrative for Valve. So much so that Valve has added a Steam Market that only sells TF2 and Dota 2 items and gets a cut off of each sale. I can't really get mad at EA for trying to sell me microtransactions of weapons in the Dead Space series when TF2 was a)doing it before it was F2P and b) released before the majority of these bullshit microtransactions on story driven games happened.

This seems to be looking more like, once again, people getting mad at EA and Cliffy B because of EA's bad marketing and the fact that people don't like Gears of War. EA sure as hell didn't invent the microtransaction. Hell, that was around back in the days of Runescape and Habbo Hotel. I get that EA doing it after charging people $60 and then $10 for a season pass is pretty shitty though. EA just handles things in a worse manner every time. I just think its hypocritical to exclusively be mad at EA for doing what a big chunk of publishers do. No one raged with Square Enix did it with Sleeping Dogs. Very few were vocal about when Saints Row the Third did it under THQ.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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Rogue 09 said:
"If you don't like EA, don't buy their games,"

I'm more tired of you Cliffy, and I don't buy your games.
Is that all of his games, or is it just Gears of War hate like the majority of people on this site that like to pretend they never played Unreal Tournament.
 

Callate

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Wow, I'm so glad Cliffy B ditched Epic so he has more time to offer his enlightened views to us plebeians from his soapobox. [/sarcasm]

...Let's see... Casual, sneering and unwarranted dismissal of the opposition as "the hipster/boomerang kid generation", check... Usual well-established hooey about companies existing to make money, check... Failure to understand issues with Origin, check...

Basically, he says two things right, they're going to be ignored because he says them in an arrogant and condescending way, pads them with bullshit, and those two things kind of contradict one another.

One, EA needs to make money. As I said elsewhere, EA has lost over 2 billion dollars in the last three years. If they would own up to that rather than continually telling us that their day-one DLC, microtransactions, digital distribution policies etc. were about giving us what we want, maybe we could come to a compromise rather that seeing them as a bunch of perfidious scum-sucking vermin.

Two, we should vote with our wallets. I do. Which is why EA hasn't gotten any money from me in quite some time. But I can either ignore EA's actions or vote with my wallet, Chuckles, I can't do both.

Go back to game design, Cliff. You're almost as bad at this public statement thing as EA's own hacks.
 

Fasckira

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Oct 22, 2009
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I don't mind microtransactions. I also don't think EA are doing a bad thing at the moment, in fact I entirely support their model. I don't however buy any of their microtransactions, or at least haven't done so yet.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike some of the choices EA have made (Im not happy with them for the shafting of Black Box and how they overstretched the NFS franchise, coupled with their latest choice to hand the arcade NFS line over to Criterion) but ultimately I quite like most the games that come out with the EA badge on the cover.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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This just in: Out of work game developer defends games company.


This doesn't invalidate all his points, but one should keep in mind Cliff was part of one of those companies.
 

Vivi22

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loa said:
EA doesn't make games, they are a publisher so "if you don't like them just don't buy *their games*" is a pretty retarded thing to say.
Firstly, EA does make games. They own quite a few development teams and companies. Anything which is a wholly owned subsidiary of them is going to have to do what they say. Period.

Second, don't buy their games still works. Even when they are just acting as the publisher on a game, they likely have a good deal of control since they control the purse strings. So if they release a game that does something you don't like, don't buy it. They get to foot the bill on the development and reap less of the sales if you do that. I'm not sure where you get the idea that not giving them money for being idiots is somehow "retarded."
 

CalUKGR

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I think Cliff's got a fair point. I have no problem at all with the Origin game service - it's actually been pretty good for me. I never understand why it comes in for so much baseless criticism. It's always being updated, it always remains stable and wholly functional for me. It's just nonsense to pretend that it's anything other than a perfectly serviceable digital game service.
 

CardinalPiggles

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In a way I kind of agree with him, it's completely optional so yes it's down to the consumer to make the decision. And yes, companies need to make their money.

But the gripe I have is people at the top of a big companies food chain are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money, and then coming out and complaining about lack of sales, trying to justify cutting corners, shitting on their consumers, and then sacking the hard working people that actually make the fucking games, after paying them a shitty fucking wage.

You don't see Gabe Newell coming out and saying they NEED to sell at least 5 million copies otherwise things are going to get dire. And then if those predictions aren't met, just sack the lowest employees.

Plus the aforementioned TF2 being FREE TO PLAY.

I'm not saying EA are "evil", and I'm not saying Valve are "benevolent", but look at their history and you'll find out why people prefer one over the other. Yes people take things to their extremes, but ignore those people.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Akalabeth said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Difference being, Valve didn't charge me 40 quid for TF2.

Microtransactions are fine in F2P models, but when you charge full price for the game, it gets a little sketchy...
You're implying TF2 was always free which is an outright lie
No, I was implying that I didn't pay 40 quid for the game.

Don't presume to know my intentions.
 

LordLundar

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Lono Shrugged said:
Jeez Cliffy, since you love EA so much why don't you drop that 100 bux and ask it to freaking marry you.

I swear...
I actually think that's what he's doing. He's backing EA in the hopes he can get a new publishing contract with them for his new studio.