CliffyB: Microtransaction is Not a Dirty Word, EA is Not The Bad Guy

[Guitarmasterx7]

Anyone else calling it that the new gears has unannounced micro-transactions? I will agree tf2's micro-transaction model is kind of shifty and I swear to god items have been dropping way less since the mannco store became a thing and despite all transactions being entirely optional valve has probably siphoned far more than 60 dollars away from the average player. But in the end it can be a free game with enough restraint and resolve. Game cost plus microtransactions PLUS day 1 DLC, that's where it gets to selling something and tacking on an extra charge to make it a complete product.

I wouldn't even mind if something with a really ethical microtransaction system was a game that costed money. If I spent 30 bucks or something to buy league of legends i probably wouldn't be too out of sorts. Things like mass effect's "this crate might have absolutely nothing useful in it but you wont know until you spend 3 bucks on it, also one of the most important story characters is DLC" thing is absolute bullshit.

 

[Slayer_2]

He's right, Valve can do no wrong in the community's eyes. It's stupid, but they have immunity somehow.

No one believes that. They just seem to be one of the least money hungry out of the big developers/publishers.

No matter what, having to load up Steam to play their games makes it DRM, the Steam offline mode is not perfect, not all their microtransactions are clear of criticism, and many people are still making fun on Valve for taking their sweet time in releasing the next Half-Life. I wouldn't be surprised if there are alot more, but those seem the most common. All businesses fall under scrutiny, and it's not hard to find all the criticism.

Valve criticisms are something like "Oh Valve, so silly taking forever with episode 3". EA gets criticisms are along the lines of "EVIL, EVIL! Everything they do is BAD!" Don't get me started on Origin hate, even though it's not that different than Steam. I respect Valve a lot more as a company (despite how I dislike most of their games), but the fact is I really don't think the balance of criticism is quite fair or equal.

 

[satsugaikaze]

Someone also mentioned how EA price gouges in Australia region while Valve does not; it's interesting to note that outside of their sales/first-party games, that their Steam service *very much* price-gouges the same way that EA does. Price (and sale discounts) are very much determined by the developer/publisher so a lot of it's outside their control, but still.

Price-wise and outside sales, Steam prices can potentially be just as garbage as Origin's service.

 

[Vault101]

....Our charming friend here is the perfect example of an EA supporter.

Granted but when was the last time Valve proudly announced to attach a feature not everyone likes (multiplayer), onto every new game they make? even though it often harms the quality of the single player (see Mass Effect 3).

I'm not sure you can blame whatever problems ME3 had because of the multiplayer....that was handled by a different team

 

[Nazulu]

Valve criticisms are something like "Oh Valve, so silly taking forever with episode 3". EA gets criticisms are along the lines of "EVIL, EVIL! Everything they do is BAD!" Don't get me started on Origin hate, even though it's not that different than Steam. I respect Valve a lot more as a company (despite how I dislike most of their games), but the fact is I really don't think the balance of criticism is quite fair or equal.

Actually, I see alot of people that are angry with Valve because they aren't patient waiting for HL3, it's pretty sad. However, you right. There is always too many people not gathering up the facts before they post, and there is always going to be some jerks making aggresive jabs. Cliffy B is pretty much falling into that trap now.

What I think I can see now is those people don't want to just let EA get off the hook, so some people literally hurl themselves into the fray without thinking it through.

 

[Something Amyss]

Eh, well didn't Studio 38 or whatever it was called defraud on some loans to the government or something? Ie, not having money to pay back what they owed. Had some sort of state-incentive to mov there and didn't hold up to their end of the bargain. Sounds like a lack of sales to me.

I missed the "defraud" use there.

You mean "default," but the ironic thing is that yes, there may indeed have been some fraud going on. Which has nothing to do with the sales of the game, but the management.

Perhaps you subconsciously knew the truth.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Videogames can cost upwards of $100 million to make and market, says Bleszinski

And whose fault is that? Well actually probably equal parts the gamer's fault and the industry's fault. All I know is I didn't ask for the excessive focus on graphics technology that led to that.

Lol ya we did. We asked for it all the damn time no more than 4 years ago. People craved great graphics and companies started spending money on it cause that's what we begged for at the time.

Yes hence why I said it's partially the gamers fault too. However I didn't.

 

[verdant monkai]

I'm not sure you can blame whatever problems ME3 had because of the multiplayer....that was handled by a different team

To me it begs the question why said multiplayer team weren't working on say another hub area, ME3 could certainly have done with one of them. Or a better Normandy the dark blue lights with crumbs and cables everywhere didn't do it for me. Point being it was something EA wanted shoehorned in, and in my opinion the main campaign suffered for it, official statements from EA/Bioware won't convince me otherwise.

 

[LordMonty]

I see his base logic and yup share based componies are legally force to make money and god help us EA takes this to heart and well thats the way it works. Now the free to play model vs £40/$60 + extra crap is different but i'll let it slide he has a point no one ever really has a go at valve which considering there teired pre-order crap(which i just wait and see how high it gets upto the last week before preordering) which is a crock of poop we should be.

EA works hard to be hated but lets not get blinkered everyone is making money some systems are just more subtle. Also is CliffyB getting hired by EA soon?

 

[ThriKreen]

To me it begs the question why said multiplayer team weren't working on say another hub area, ME3 could certainly have done with one of them. Or a better Normandy the dark blue lights with crumbs and cables everywhere didn't do it for me.

Ever hear the phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen"? It can happen in game development too, and it's often better to separate a different team to focus on one area. And the more autonomous they are, the better. For another example, Ubisoft Singapore focused all on the ship combat for Assassin's Creed 3, letting the main Montreal studio to focus on the other parts of the game.

Point being it was something EA wanted shoehorned in, and in my opinion the main campaign suffered for it, official statements from EA/Bioware won't convince me otherwise.

That's an unfortunate stance to take, not to mention very incorrect, especially since MP was always in the cards for the ME franchise. You know, using a well known FPS engine and all. It was just a matter of when and how to do it right that fits the game world. People like it, they're still adding content to it (as well as the main game), so it's not shoehorned in at all in a fire and forget act.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Cliff Bleszinski is burying himself so deep within EA's anal canal that the moisture on the tip of his tongue will quench their thirst.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Valve criticisms are something like "Oh Valve, so silly taking forever with episode 3". EA gets criticisms are along the lines of "EVIL, EVIL! Everything they do is BAD!" Don't get me started on Origin hate, even though it's not that different than Steam. I respect Valve a lot more as a company (despite how I dislike most of their games), but the fact is I really don't think the balance of criticism is quite fair or equal.

Actually, I see alot of people that are angry with Valve because they aren't patient waiting for HL3, it's pretty sad. However, you right. There is always too many people not gathering up the facts before they post, and there is always going to be some jerks making aggresive jabs. Cliffy B is pretty much falling into that trap now.

What I think I can see now is those people don't want to just let EA get off the hook, so some people literally hurl themselves into the fray without thinking it through.

There's a lot of people who criticize Valve for the recent fuck uppery that Steam Greenlight turned out to be. A few things about Greenlight have been giving decent reasons for the community that uses Steam to get pissed.

The fact that out of 66 games that have been Greenlit, only 16 have been released.

Some of the released games were released in an alpha or beta state while telling people that the game was done(Cortex Command, Towns).

One of the Greenlight games lied to their customers in the exact same fashion as the WarZ devs(Miner Wars DRM).

Most of the 50 remaining games that have been "Greenlit" have been done for months and have been being sold on Desura and the websites of the developer. This going on while incomplete Greenlight games keep getting released first is just stupid.

Valve for sure is not looked upon with a "they can do no wrong" company by anyone who isn't a Valve purist.



OT:The argument that TF2 being allowed to do microtransactions because its free to play is countered by the fact that TF2 was sold retail at $50 retail in the Orange Box. TF2 has microtransactions back then as well. The is the same way a good majority of the more well known F2P MMOs started (LOTR Online, D&D Online, etc.) Most MMOs not named Guild Wars go F2P after being retail priced. All with microtransactions.

If you're going to get mad at EA for doing it simply because they charge you for the game THEN charged for small things, find a new reason. It seems that a good portion of F2P games started off with the exact same model that EA uses for their game.

I'm not saying don't be mad at EA for doing microtransactions, but don't be mad at them because they charge you the game first. Chances are one of your favourite F2P games started off with the same model.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Videogames can cost upwards of $100 million to make and market, says Bleszinski, and are actually cheaper than ever before for consumers when adjusted for inflation. [http://www.1up.com/news/90s-game-price-comparison-charticle]

Except that, like most conclusions that are drawn by limiting your considerations, that statement is erroneous. The cost of games might be "cheaper" when adjusted for inflation, but do you know what else is lower than it used to be when adjusted for inflation? How about the average income of a US household? So yeah, sure, today's games might be "cheaper" when you look at them on one scale, but they're more expensive when you look at them on another. So... yeah.

As for the difference between Dead Space 3 and Team Fortress 2... one costs $60 to play, one doesn't. People aren't really upset about the micro-transactions as they are the fact that they already paid for the game, and now they're being told to pay for it more. Over-all, yeah, Cliffy IS right about DS3 not being that big of a deal on its own, but it's a straw that broke the camel's back sorta deal. EA has spent the past decade (at least) looking for more ways to nickel and dime us, and this is just one more thing to add to the list.

Besides... people DID make a big fuss about the ring (and the TF2 in-game shop in general). Just sayin'.

 

[Zombie_Moogle]

While CliffyB seems to be ignoring the vast difference in how EA & Valve handle DLC & microtransactions, I have to applaud him for one statement that I've been banging on about for a while now:

"If you don't like EA, don't buy their games,"

As much as gamers love to ***** about EA, often with good reason, they sure don't seem to mind making them rich for doing the things gamers seem to hate.
I take issue with many things in Origin's EULA, which I express by not using Origin
You want publishers to stop nickel'n'dime-ing us with DLC? THEN STOP BUYING THE DAMN DLC!

Ranting about it on forums doesn't change the fact that you keep giving them dump trucks full of money

You're forgetting that EA is a publisher, not a development studio. People might love and wish to support the games produced by a particular studio, but what if EA is producing those games? Do they let a beloved studio crash and burn, never to see some of their favourite games again, or do they play ball and feed the evil machine in hopes of a sequel?

The only real solution is for developers to stay away from publishers like EA, though with AAA games being so bloated and costing "100 million dollars" they don't have much of an option if they wish to compete on that stage. Even with crowd funding you're just not going to get 100 million bucks to make your game. Studios have to decide whether to seek a publisher for a AAA game (and put up with their bullshit) or refocus their efforts on smaller projects (which would include layoffs and likely significantly less revenue).

The whole industry is a mess.

You're 100% correct, aside from the statement that I'm "forgetting" any of that
You know how much I'd love to buy Bioware's games? or Dead Space? There are plenty of games that I'd love to get from Origin, but I don't.
It's a sad fact, but for the industry to grow into the one we want instead of the one we put up with, we have to start voting with our wallets

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Just because something can be marketed so that the people supported a move to it doesn't make it inherently not evil. Look at fascism.

0 to Godwin's in .25 posts! Incredible!

 

[purifico]

Cliffy B acts like an ass in a successful attempt to defend his Douchebag of the Year title. In other news - the sky is blue, the grass is green.

 

[Rachmaninov]

It's a sad fact, but for the industry to grow into the one we want instead of the one we put up with, we have to start voting with our wallets

Even if we did that, all the developers we love (like BioWare) who are owned by EA because of unrelated greed (by BioWare's owners) will sink, too.

Either, we give EA our money, or those studios and the IPs they have created all die.

It's a bit like a hostage situation actually. I guess that explains why people seem to have Stockholm Syndrome for EA.

If you're going to get mad at EA for doing it simply because they charge you for the game THEN charged for small things, find a new reason. It seems that a good portion of F2P games started off with the exact same model that EA uses for their game.

I'm not saying don't be mad at EA for doing microtransactions, but don't be mad at them because they charge you the game first. Chances are one of your favourite F2P games started off with the same model.

It's not just that EA release games and then implement MTs (microtransactions). The problem is that EA's every step is to offer us less content for the same amount of money, and then demand more money for the rest.

Dead Space 3, for example, is a full priced game. But it has what... 11 pieces of Day One, on-the-disk DLC? And MTs? And they'll be releasing full priced DLC packs, too?

When does it stop? How long until buying an EA game means getting the prologue, and you then have to buy 12 DLC packs for all the chapters, while being prodded at every turn by adverts for "optional content"?

EA, at every step, tries to make more money for less product. Between them and Activision, you're lucky to get a whole, complete game when you buy it at retail anymore. Most of it is cut up, and split off so they can sell it to you over and over.

Valve, despite their failings, aren't attempting such obvious daylight robbery.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

but the fact is I really don't think the balance of criticism is quite fair or equal.

For Origin and Steam, yeah it's not fair. But for everything else why should it be equal?

You see Valve releasing content for free.
You see EA Figureheads talk about charging players for in-game bullets.

Valve is not perfect, and I hate microtransactions. But if a publisher is going to do microtransactions, they might as well try to make it seem like I'm not getting ripped off.

 

[afroebob]

Videogames can cost upwards of $100 million to make and market, says Bleszinski

And whose fault is that? Well actually probably equal parts the gamer's fault and the industry's fault. All I know is I didn't ask for the excessive focus on graphics technology that led to that.

Lol ya we did. We asked for it all the damn time no more than 4 years ago. People craved great graphics and companies started spending money on it cause that's what we begged for at the time.

Yes hence why I said it's partially the gamers fault too. However I didn't.

Ooops my bad, I misread :\

 

[Something Amyss]

Either, we give EA our money, or those studios and the IPs they have created all die.

In the short run perhaps, but by making the continued acquisition by EA untenable, there is a third option.