Oh wow, hey could I get an address for him so I can take him golfing? Then use his testicles as the golf balls so he can sound like the rat he is. As others before me have said, how does getting a better deal put us to blame? I guarantee when the whole budget thing puts games at 100 bucks a pop (and with the way the industry is going is it really out of the question?) he will be right there cheering them on.
CliffyB Thinks Used Games Are Bad, Sony is "Playing Us"
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
New technology means development should be getting easier, not more difficult. Just manage your budgets at least from inflating next generation and this won't be a problem. You can't force the market to change because of your own decision making processes. The market won't cater to you. That's backwards logic.
Bullshit. This isn't news. Software developers have been trying to force the Copyright licence and every disgusting part of it down our throat since the '90s (or was it the '80s? Damn I have an exam on that stuff in 2 days). They've been trying to get every single piece of the pie since then and restrict any form of sharing software to the point of family members not being allowed to use it on the same machine. Hell, under WoW's licence for example, you can't let anyone play it anywhere, not even at your computer.
Game rentals can't work because of game development costs you say? Excuse me, last I checked, movies were doing pretty fucking amazing still and we can rent them last I checked. In fact, there are a ton of services in place that make renting a movie cheap as hell and unlike games, there's a vast library of them (and again unlike games, it's easier to enjoy older movies). Considering most movies still cost more than most games to make and games are still a LOT more expensive, how exactly are you finding yourself in a poorhouse?
captcha: what's that
Bullshit captcha, is what it is
Game rentals can't work because of game development costs you say? Excuse me, last I checked, movies were doing pretty fucking amazing still and we can rent them last I checked. In fact, there are a ton of services in place that make renting a movie cheap as hell and unlike games, there's a vast library of them (and again unlike games, it's easier to enjoy older movies). Considering most movies still cost more than most games to make and games are still a LOT more expensive, how exactly are you finding yourself in a poorhouse?
captcha: what's that
Bullshit captcha, is what it is
Remember one of the live action trailers for Call of Duty featuring Robert Downey Jr.?
Now, how many people were persuaded to buy the new CoD because of that trailer and does that amount of people justify the money needed to make that commercial and to have Robert Downey Jr. make the cameo?
Obviously not! So stop doing that for fuck sake.
Now, how many people were persuaded to buy the new CoD because of that trailer and does that amount of people justify the money needed to make that commercial and to have Robert Downey Jr. make the cameo?
Obviously not! So stop doing that for fuck sake.
Well, game budgets are running up against a wall. It happens in every industry - too many investors, too many companies, who over-estimate how much it is worth and overestimate how much profit they can derive from the market. What will happen (what happens with every industry) is that underperformers who cannot make a profit will die out. We'll lose some studios. We will. That will happen. The others will be forced to change business practices to fit in with the size of the market.
Will that mean that some AAA games will be cancelled? Will that mean we'll see fewer advancements in gaming technology and spectacle? Sure. But that's inevitable, and it won't last forever. Gaming budgets have blown out of proportion due to a number of things, one of them being advertising costs. If the game industry "crashes", then costs will go down since they'll be less competition.
The game industry wants to grow and grow and grow and grow, forever, like Jack's magical bean stalk. No industry, NO INDUSTRY, throughout all of human history, has managed to do that. Cliffy B is angsty that the game industry has outgrown its natural size and that an axe is being swung down upon it. Cliffy, Axes are a natural part of capitalism. Companies are going to fail, investors will sometimes lose money. You can't live in a free market and expect special protection. If the companies made errors in judging how much profit they could make, if DEVELOPERS blew out their budgets and didn't make good games, then those companies are going to die and that is the nature of capitalism. Or what, you want all your gaming industry friends to be specially protected? An intriguing idea, comrade! Perhaps we should set up a People's Commissariat for Electronic Entertainment! You can be Comrade Chairman! Or General Secretary!
Crashes and studio failures are natural parts of capitalism. If you can't compete, you're going to go under. You can blame your customers, but other studios will manage to survive - you know, the studios who made realistic, smart decisions and didn't let themselves become super-bloated under the mistaken belief that they were the "new hollywood".
Will that mean that some AAA games will be cancelled? Will that mean we'll see fewer advancements in gaming technology and spectacle? Sure. But that's inevitable, and it won't last forever. Gaming budgets have blown out of proportion due to a number of things, one of them being advertising costs. If the game industry "crashes", then costs will go down since they'll be less competition.
The game industry wants to grow and grow and grow and grow, forever, like Jack's magical bean stalk. No industry, NO INDUSTRY, throughout all of human history, has managed to do that. Cliffy B is angsty that the game industry has outgrown its natural size and that an axe is being swung down upon it. Cliffy, Axes are a natural part of capitalism. Companies are going to fail, investors will sometimes lose money. You can't live in a free market and expect special protection. If the companies made errors in judging how much profit they could make, if DEVELOPERS blew out their budgets and didn't make good games, then those companies are going to die and that is the nature of capitalism. Or what, you want all your gaming industry friends to be specially protected? An intriguing idea, comrade! Perhaps we should set up a People's Commissariat for Electronic Entertainment! You can be Comrade Chairman! Or General Secretary!
Crashes and studio failures are natural parts of capitalism. If you can't compete, you're going to go under. You can blame your customers, but other studios will manage to survive - you know, the studios who made realistic, smart decisions and didn't let themselves become super-bloated under the mistaken belief that they were the "new hollywood".
Ha!
I can buy a 2nd hand blu-ray for £4-£10 and sell it again if I don't want to keep it. Netflix is £6 a month and has more content than you could possibly watch. So... I'm going to spend £40 on a 6 hour game, why? It's already a hard-sell, so telling me that I can't recoup any of my loss later on, I'm afraid... is going to result in me having to say "fuck you". You made me an offer that I could easily refuse, which means you fucked up.
From a consumer standpoint, Cliffy... the numbers, they don't add up!
I can buy a 2nd hand blu-ray for £4-£10 and sell it again if I don't want to keep it. Netflix is £6 a month and has more content than you could possibly watch. So... I'm going to spend £40 on a 6 hour game, why? It's already a hard-sell, so telling me that I can't recoup any of my loss later on, I'm afraid... is going to result in me having to say "fuck you". You made me an offer that I could easily refuse, which means you fucked up.
From a consumer standpoint, Cliffy... the numbers, they don't add up!
I suppose at the end of the day, Cliffy is angry that the survival of companies is not guaranteed in the gaming world. Buck up and deal with it! That's Capitalism! You can't compete, you're gonna go bust! You misjudge what the market wants, you're not going to make a profit! You over-invest in the hopes of super-profit, well, that comes with super-risk! Every other industry on the planet has to deal with the mechanics of capitalism, you're no different! You have to respond to market forces, and if you misread those market forces and put too much money on one game, and that game fails, you know what we call that? The other side of capitalism! You can't have it both ways! You can't demand a free market and then plead that you deserve protection from that free market! Free Market's free!
"It does NOT work that way"? Oh? Because other companies have been able to make it work that way! Maybe your company can't. Boo Hoo. Your company will go the way of the dinosaur, whereas smarter, fiercer, more consumer pleasing companies that made wiser decisions will survive and thrive. You can't compete in today's world, Cliffy. And that's why you're afraid. The Axe of Capitalism is coming for you and you're scared!
"It does NOT work that way"? Oh? Because other companies have been able to make it work that way! Maybe your company can't. Boo Hoo. Your company will go the way of the dinosaur, whereas smarter, fiercer, more consumer pleasing companies that made wiser decisions will survive and thrive. You can't compete in today's world, Cliffy. And that's why you're afraid. The Axe of Capitalism is coming for you and you're scared!
Or, you know, you could stop spending so much on development and marketing. Seems to have worked out pretty well for Metro: Last Light.
Just because you spent a lot of money on it doesn't mean people are going to buy it, Cliffy. Get a bloody clue.
Just because you spent a lot of money on it doesn't mean people are going to buy it, Cliffy. Get a bloody clue.
Honestly I blame high costs on idiots demanding a game having EPIC GRAPHICS DUURRRRRRR. It's pretty much the Audio Visual things that up the costs of making games.Wyvern65 said:
I really wouldn't trust CliffyB as a judge of "good and bad"
He thought the Gears of War series was good enough to make FOUR FUCKING games in. When it was really one mediocre game, two that were offensive garbage on every conceivable level and a fourth one that I haven't played and never will because I have some self respect.
IF the **** buggering numbers don't work then CHANGE THE **** BUGGERING NUMBERS NOT THE ENTIRE FUNCTIONING WORLD AROUND THEM YOU PONCY TWAT!
"I spend so much on marketing my over produced piles of shit that if anyone got a chance to play them before I've pocketed all the cash they might realize that the best game my studio has ever released is at best inoffensively bland, and thus have no reason to buy them!"
Spend less money, set reasonable sales goals, and for god's sake stop making games as bad as Gears of War 2!
He thought the Gears of War series was good enough to make FOUR FUCKING games in. When it was really one mediocre game, two that were offensive garbage on every conceivable level and a fourth one that I haven't played and never will because I have some self respect.
IF the **** buggering numbers don't work then CHANGE THE **** BUGGERING NUMBERS NOT THE ENTIRE FUNCTIONING WORLD AROUND THEM YOU PONCY TWAT!
"I spend so much on marketing my over produced piles of shit that if anyone got a chance to play them before I've pocketed all the cash they might realize that the best game my studio has ever released is at best inoffensively bland, and thus have no reason to buy them!"
Spend less money, set reasonable sales goals, and for god's sake stop making games as bad as Gears of War 2!
Can we go back to the days when people made games to make fucking games???? When did this suddenly turn into an economic war?Jamous said:
How many times does Jim have to make a video relating to this issue for people to fucking get it.
Used game sales don't add or detract from the overall sale of the game.
At the end of the day someone payed the full $60.00 to purchase one unit of your game. If they give the game to someone they no longer have the game on them, and the number of sales from a purchase standpoint wouldn't change.
If 4,000 people put up Metroid for second hand sale and all 4,000 units were sold as used, guess what? Your total is still 4,000 units. No more, no less.
Also how is it OUR fault that you make incredibly over inflated budgets for games that more than likely won't make it past 5 million units? That's a lot of fucking sales, but the reason it's not is because the sheer amount used to make the game could never be covered cost wise unless it passes absurd numbers like 7 million. Only a few franchises manage to get those numbers, and niche games can forget it.
It's absolutely ridiculous.
Used game sales don't add or detract from the overall sale of the game.
At the end of the day someone payed the full $60.00 to purchase one unit of your game. If they give the game to someone they no longer have the game on them, and the number of sales from a purchase standpoint wouldn't change.
If 4,000 people put up Metroid for second hand sale and all 4,000 units were sold as used, guess what? Your total is still 4,000 units. No more, no less.
Also how is it OUR fault that you make incredibly over inflated budgets for games that more than likely won't make it past 5 million units? That's a lot of fucking sales, but the reason it's not is because the sheer amount used to make the game could never be covered cost wise unless it passes absurd numbers like 7 million. Only a few franchises manage to get those numbers, and niche games can forget it.
It's absolutely ridiculous.
That's the elephant in the room.TheAmazingTGIF said:
He knows how to develop but no he is not speaking the truth nor does everyone "know it to be true."
That time still exists, some people just didn't get the memo.Jesse Billingsley said:
This kind of business cannot survive. The YOY Profit model always kills a business.
You start using cheaper quality goods, charging more, and the net positive return you have on society grows smaller and smaller until it becomes a negative.
It's true in automobiles, games, banking, healthcare, everywhere.
There is no business that has not fallen apart (that I'm aware of) that follows the YOY Profit hunt.
Businesses should be shooting for profits, period, not higher and higher profits. If you make more money than you spent, no matter how little, that's success.
People thinking success is always making more profits are the source of most of the ills in the world.
It's funny. The Microsoft fanboys keep pushing the big bad Sony announcement further and further down the line. If I had a dime for every time I heard "just you wait until E3, Sony is going to reveal their DRM too!". Hey, guys, it's not happening. Microsoft screwed up and Sony isn't following suit. That's the sad truth, now re-examine your blind brand loyalty.
And how do used games have anything to do with this exactly?CaptainBill22 said:
You want to blow 5 million dollars on advertisement then that is your problem not ours.
For a game to be used, it must of been bought new at first anyway. No game has ever come fresh off the machine and goes directly to being a "used" game.
So if your struggling to make sales it's not used games that are the problem.
It's the fact that 6 million people don't think your game is worth $60.00.