College Education Arms Race Bankrupting America

[Ympulse]

This notion that lenders and bankers are greedy... ...is childish.

The investment owners of the multinational conglomerate banks (you know, the ones that give out most of those student loans) make on average 3-4 million a year.

Not. Greedy. At. All.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Hey HEY we don't talk about Season 5, that never happened. We all know the series ended after season 4. It wrapped up too perfectly to have a season 5. Season 5 would be silly. That never happened, no... Crusade...

Okay, here's a thought. What if JMS had actually been told he was getting his fifth season before he had filmed season 4? I mean, originally season 4 was supposed to be seasons 4 and 5 - one season of Shadow War, and one season of Earth War.

Seriously, how insanely awesome would that have been?

As sad as Firefly getting canceled makes me, I'm actually sadder that B5 got it's last two real seasons crammed into one season (followed by the tacked on crap that shall not be named).

 

[Atmos Duality]

In my opinion, high school (or college, in some places of the world) should be where basic skills should be taught, and the university level is where specialization happens. There is no excuse for rudimentary maths like basic algebra to be taught at the university level.

I need sleep real soon, so I'll keep this brief:

If you had any idea the level of general incompetency, the corruption in the school boards, and/or the lack of motivation among most public schools in America, this sort of education is little more than a pipe dream.

And this is coming from someone who DIDN'T go to High School in a slum; my high school (as much as I hated it at the time) had fairly high standards especially compared to any of our neighboring districts. I was lucky.

Today, I'm in a beginner Calculus course where the average exam grade (amongst ALL SECTIONS) this semester has been a 41%. Why? Because most schools are not teaching all of those necessary algebra tricks. I didn't even learn proper factoring until autumn 2009.

I used to think that Universities/Community Colleges/etc used to require Core Competency as a means of milking the student for more time and money; now, I'm not even sure of that jaded perspective because there ARE many lazy and stupid people out there.
Sorry if that comes across as blunt, but it's the truth.

 

[Smeagol150]

I fail to see a problem with artists, nurses, or people in the serving industry.

Not everyone can do it, it's just not economically feasible. But everyone is expected to. (college)

Wait... What? These people must attend some school that's specifically for nursing students, much like a local community college near myself. Speaking as a person in university right now, I have never felt "expected" to enter into the service industry or become a nurse. That just doesn't make sense. You're speaking with some sort of crazy tunnel vision. I as well know a good number of nursing students, and that's fine. They want to be a nurse it's their choice, they just need to be better than the other nursing students all attending colleges. That's competition.

 

[Dags90]

I'm annoyed because people aren't thinking about the real idea, which is, the total amount spent on higher education has saddled Americans with trillions of dollars in personal debt.

It actually just reached 1 trillion quite recently. I saw a sign on campus and everything. Link [http://moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money/blog/bank-dad/students-in-debt-1-trillion-hole-and-more-dropouts/740/]. Meanwhile mortgage debt is about 13 trillion.

 

[Flac00]

It's actually a real mineral. They use it in high performance spark plugs, among other things.

Oh. Well, clearly my subject isn't earth science. Or, you know, chemistry. Still, that's a bit disappointing. It was far cooler when you named yourself after a mineral from the mining mini-game in ME2.

I know platinum is real (my wedding ring is made out of it) but what about palladium? Is that real too?

Ends up, yes palladium is real. I was not expecting that either. Well at least "Unobtanium" isn't real.

 

[kevintheshane]

This notion that lenders and bankers are greedy... ...is childish.

The investment owners of the multinational conglomerate banks (you know, the ones that give out most of those student loans) make on average 3-4 million a year.

Not. Greedy. At. All.

So greed is defined by how much money someone makes? This is a legitimate question.

 

[Smeagol150]

Hey HEY we don't talk about Season 5, that never happened. We all know the series ended after season 4. It wrapped up too perfectly to have a season 5. Season 5 would be silly. That never happened, no... Crusade...

Okay, here's a thought. What if JMS had actually been told he was getting his fifth season before he had filmed season 4? I mean, originally season 4 was supposed to be seasons 4 and 5 - one season of Shadow War, and one season of Earth War.

Seriously, how insanely awesome would that have been?

As sad as Firefly getting canceled makes me, I'm actually sadder that B5 got it's last two real seasons crammed into one season (followed by the tacked on crap that shall not be named).

Oh I know, that would've been amazing. That show was so well written and acted, I have to re-watch it at least once a year. Of course, I can't lie, season 1 has some very painful moments. Watching O'Hare act... He's just a piece of wood.

 

[REDACTEDREDACTED]

OP has a great point - college has become the next assumed step in education for way too many fields. The idea behind college was something totally different than what it is today. I see so many promising young minds put aside their "hobby" (which is something they're good at and love doing) because they "need" to finish get a degree. The best electrician I know never finished high school, and yet he manages through life just fine. The best carpenter I know is the same way, and he's exceptionally intelligent and well-informed. No GED. No degree. Just common sense and feet firmly on the ground. We have this idea that somehow not going to high school means failure. After attending 4 years of college and getting a degree in business, I can safely say I only should have paid for the 4th and final year. Everything else was just filling somebody's credit quota.

I'm firmly in favor of apprenticeships starting whenever someone wants to start - even if it's a 14-year old wanting to work for his father. The best training is passed on first-hand, from people who love their jobs to people eager to learn. Every day I see people making six-figure salaries - absolutely miserable. They hate their jobs, then come home to an empty 4 bedroom house in the suburbs. They live for the weekend, dreading the work week. They went to college because that's what everyone else did - that's how you make money, right? With a degree in...something? Then I see my boss. No college, just makes enough to pay the bills, put a little in savings, give me a small raise, and put a little to grow the business each year. He's the happiest and most contributing guy I know. Gives back to the community. Makes the world a better place. It's amazing what you can accomplish when you actually love what you do. You won't find that if you're just looking for the top dollar jobs.

Johnnyallstar: "In my opinion, high school (or college, in some places of the world) should be where basic skills should be taught, and the university level is where specialization happens. There is no excuse for rudimentary maths like basic algebra to be taught at the university level."

Absolutely. And that means that our current "K-12" education system is failing. It's almost like procrastination spread across 13 years - they slowly try and put off the "challenging" (useful) material until the last possible year. Whether from some misguided desire to protect those young, fragile minds, or just plain laziness - who knows? I was homeschooled until 8th grade, then went into public school at 8th grade (essentially doing it twice because I was so young.) It was a stark contrast of "wanting to learn vs. forced to memorize" I can elaborate if you're actually interested, but we had to fight tooth and nail to actually be accepted into public school because my scores were too high. Yeah.

Johnnyallstar: "That implies that if you don't go to a university that you have absolutely no ambition, dreams, or goals in life. There are plenty of people who have had successful lives due to their determination to succeed and the freedom to do so, all without a so called higher education."

I totally agree - my boss is a great example. But the cultural expectation has become "High school is done. What's the next step? We recommend a great college! Military's fine too...oh, you want to be a plumber? I guess...but if you go to college, you can make lots of money!"

I've even heard radio commercials lately - basically saying "Do you want a high paying job? Community college is the way to go." (As if it guaranteed you that!) I wish I was joking, but that's what college has become - a prerequisite to something else, just like high school is now.

Is college bankrupting America? It probably doesn't help. No matter what, it's become ridiculous. (Don't get me started on MBA business programs!)

 

[xDarc]

But fine, just asnwer me this. YOU dont care, why should WE (the posters)? You wonder why you didnt get posts at first.

Because it's something to talk about besides the poll threads or one liners? If you guys can't just shoot the breeze, that's fine. Research used to grow out of threads on other forums. This forum is like either come with something light and fluffy, or come with a piece fit for the NY Times. I don't really care for either.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

In my opinion, high school (or college, in some places of the world) should be where basic skills should be taught, and the university level is where specialization happens. There is no excuse for rudimentary maths like basic algebra to be taught at the university level.

I need sleep real soon, so I'll keep this brief:

If you had any idea the level of general incompetency, the corruption in the school boards, and/or the lack of motivation among most public schools in America, this sort of education is little more than a pipe dream.

And this is coming from someone who DIDN'T go to High School in a slum; my high school (as much as I hated it at the time) had fairly high standards especially compared to any of our neighboring districts. I was lucky.

Today, I'm in a beginner Calculus course where the average exam grade (amongst ALL SECTIONS) this semester has been a 41%. Why? Because most schools are not teaching all of those necessary algebra tricks. I didn't even learn proper factoring until autumn 2009.

I used to think that Universities/Community Colleges/etc used to require Core Competency as a means of milking the student for more time and money; now, I'm not even sure of that jaded perspective because there ARE many lazy and stupid people out there.
Sorry if that comes across as blunt, but it's the truth.

Oh, I know well enough of the corruption and apathy at the high school level. I have gone into great, lengthy detail in previous posts, which I'll spare everyone from, but I totally agree with you. Part of the problem is that most teachers below the university level are simply that. Teachers. They are not practitioners within their field of tutelage, but simple plug and play stand ins who stay one week ahead of the students in the course package they're given from higher ups.

And I am a bit of a dreamer, and an idealist, so no offense taken. After my high school mistreatment I became pretty embittered against the current educational status quo. The biggest hurdle to fixing these problems, I think, is Big Education. The unholy alliance between the teachers unions and the Dept. of Education have turned our schools into an abysmal money pit which only hurts the students, and damages the future of not just our country, but the world.

I think you and I have a little more in common than you think, at least in our experiences with the high school hellhole.

 

[xDarc]

So greed is defined by how much money someone makes? This is a legitimate question.

Even tiny interest rates on hundreds of billions of dollars amounts to billions of dollars. What's worse though is how colleges and universities throw their money around to prop up biased research or political ideas.

 

[kevintheshane]

But fine, just asnwer me this. YOU dont care, why should WE (the posters)? You wonder why you didnt get posts at first.

Because it's something to talk about besides the poll threads or one liners? If you guys can't just shoot the breeze, that's fine. Research used to grow out of threads on other forums. This forum is like either come with something light and fluffy, or come with a piece fit for the NY Times. I don't really care for either.

Titling a thread "College Education Arms Race Bankrupting America" when you just want to "shoot the breeze" may not have been the best choice.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Oh I know, that would've been amazing. That show was so well written and acted, I have to re-watch it at least once a year. Of course, I can't lie, season 1 has some very painful moments. Watching O'Hare act... He's just a piece of wood.

Yeah, season one had some issues, but didn't bother me that much. Then again, I came to B5 from Star Trek, and... yeah, acting like a block of wood wasn't that unusual.

Season 2, though... that is still one of my favorites. You have no clue what the chuffing hell is going on, but there is something mysterious going on. Delin has hair, Garabaldi is recovering from being shot, Mr. Morden has the power to call down spidery death from the cosmos with absolutely no explanation, and something screwy is going on on earth. It's all so damn compelling. ^^

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Female and a teacher...yummy lol. Had to.

4 day work weeks? Even college and university here is 5 days. I teach guitar on the side for so i can understand the annoying parts of teaching people. I am very choosy. I won't teach someone unless they are old enough to want to learn it themselves.

^^ No problem. Look at my badges - I like being the sexy teacher.

And my work week isn't 4 days - it's 5 days. My "oh my, you aren't good enough for English comp, so we're going to have to repeat high school and teach you what a sentence is" class if four days a week. No idea why it's 4 days - that's weird compared to the rest of the classes here too.

I also teach a more normal lit class two days a week, one of which is the day I have off from the other classes. So yes, I work M-F.

 

[Corkydog]

The comments on Youtube are enough to convince me that we need all those people going to college. Dumb people piss me off.

 

[kevintheshane]

So greed is defined by how much money someone makes? This is a legitimate question.

Even tiny interest rates on hundreds of billions of dollars amounts to billions of dollars.

So are you against lending altogether? Because if so, that includes small business loans too, so the whole "Start a business" thing isn't really going to happen.

 

[xDarc]

So greed is defined by how much money someone makes? This is a legitimate question.

Even tiny interest rates on hundreds of billions of dollars amounts to billions of dollars.

So are you against lending altogether? Because if so, that includes small business loans too, so the whole "Start a business" thing isn't really going to happen.

I'm against every young American expected to take out an average of $18,000 in student loans. Absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary, and no one even questions it. This is a huge financial burden for the country.

I have a friend with 40K in student loans and he's still waiting tables at Denny's. How many people like this are out there? This is money that didn't exist until they decided to take out a loan, and it's money that isn't coming back any time soon.

I'd like to see people get out of school and be able to get a job, be productive, contribute, accumulate assets. Not spend the next 10 years living off of mom and dad, going further into debt so that one day they might make good money. This doesn't happen to everybody, but it happens to enough of them to make it a major problem.