Console Gaming

[Android2137]

Depend on Yahtzee to disrupt general agreement by adding nitpicky details! Not a bad thing though, considering how this is a debate.

You know, I really didn't think much about gesture interface until they brought up Tony Stark's holographic interface. I personally don't care much for motion control, but if it brings us that much closer to the interactive hologram, then we can't let motion control gaming die yet! Animating and modeling in 3-D is a real pain right now! I can't think 3-D on a fundamentally 2-D interface! It's like remote controlling a robot to make a clay sculpture in a different room. It's neat, but not nearly as effective as sculpting with your own hands.

 

[runedeadthA]

It's like Jesus, Cthulu and Gandhi having a poker game together... (Try guess who's who).

Future future future.... Is it weird that I can't see consoles (As they are Now) having a future. The whole thing feels kind of...I dunno I can't really explain it, it's like crack equivalent. Cheap low brow entertainment with no worries about getting anywhere. As long as you got them Halos, Marios and Gears right?

I blame the consumer. Stats say the average person is much smarter then they were in the past, so start showing it! -_-

 

[Atmos Duality]

The last of the true gaming console, eh?
Only if the Big Three follow Apple's model...it pains me to say that given how most of Steve Jobs' products are overpriced and overhyped.

And yeah, the creativity era peaked with the last console generation. PC was hitting its golden years (ending with the launch of WoW), there was variety amongst the genres and the worst things I had to deal from the gaming community from 2000-2005 were Smash Bros Elitists, Diablo 2 hackers, and Anime-addicts who were only too eager to tell me how loathsome I was for not enjoying Japanese picture shows.
(Well, and Dirge of Cerberus...but I'd consider the fall of Squaresoft a tragedy of their own making)

Today...well....
"Who's up for a game of Call of Duty 4.3!?"
"ZOMG! WoW got another expansion! Now I can grind to 85! LULZ!"
"Franchise reboot! Hellz yeahs!"

Yeah...sequels. And franchise reboots. And general stagnation. What a shocker.
It was at least more entertaining when the worst thing that could possibly happen was EA buying out another business.

The stagnation of individual series is bad enough, but the stagnation of entire GENRES...it's become pathetic. Nevermind the death of other genres just due to the success of the dominant genres.
Why is every other AAA title a shooter? Because Call of Duty 4.3 made over a billion USD in revenue in about 3 months.
Big budget productions have all but choked the life out of game-design process. Titles like Mass Effect 2 may have strong cinematic-like qualities to them, but they make for incredibly shallow GAMES. Some argue that user-feedback helps developers create better titles. But from what I've been able to tell, it simply makes the game lose more and more of its focus.

Hell, from what I recall from Mass Effect 2, the game kept tabs on your playing style. Because of how overwhelmingly popular the Soldier class was, I can probably expect the next game to be even more watered down in my choices (and it's not like there much real strategy in ME2 to begin with.) or at least skewed in favor of that marketing data.

But back to genre genocide...Even when I went looking under rocks, I was only capable of finding ONE decent space-flight game made in the last 5 years (X3, and that game quickly lost my attention on account of the bizarre difficulty curve). The number of great mecha/robot games: ZERO. (it's just "Armored Core 4: For Shizzle For Answer"...and I burned my bridge with From Software looooong ago).
Cyberpunk even as a setting has all but one last gasp left (and I do not count Space Marines, or clones thereof as "cyberpunk") in Deus Ex: Human Revolution coming up. Though I hear that may change soon if the winds stop favoring games with Nazis, Russians, or Terrorists. (At least on a thematic level.)

I still say that there are good ideas still out there; I'd even say that there are marketable genres waiting to be explored further. It's just that nobody has the balls (or according to some, the insanity) to fund them.

Genre diversity is extremely limited outside of the indie-market (which is hit or miss...largely miss, sadly), and even there it isn't all that much better.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

When it comes to controllers, my favorite has to be the old school arcade stick with the huge ass buttons. 8 directions, 6 or less buttons. Thats all you need to fuck people up. And you can hit those buttons like they owe you money and they wont give out. Its kinda noisy, its pricey, but I wouldn't know what to do with myself without one.

Here is a pic of the Marvel vs Capcom 3 Tournament Edition Fight stick! Looks sexy as hell!

 

[ReaperzXIII]

It's like Jesus, Cthulu and Gandhi having a poker game together... (Try guess who's who).

Future future future.... Is it weird that I can't see consoles (As they are Now) having a future. The whole thing feels kind of...I dunno I can't really explain it, it's like crack equivalent. Cheap low brow entertainment with no worries about getting anywhere. As long as you got them Halos, Marios and Gears right?

I blame the consumer. Stats say the average person is much smarter then they were in the past, so start showing it! -_-

Jesus = James, Cthulu = Yahtzee Gandhi = Moviebob? Am I right?

I don't like the idea of direct neural interface, it could lead to the bleeding effect like AC and if someone walks into the room whilst you are connected how would you be able to react? You wouldn't even be aware of their presence, therefore I think button mashing is the best interface we are ever going to have, its immersive enough to let you focus whilst still letting you be aware of the reality around you. Only better thing I can think of is games allowing you to use the environment freely with almost no limitation however the only way that can happen is if programmers program laws and an AI just fills the space bound by those laws.

 

[hexFrank202]

Wow. You'd think this would be a lot more interesting. These people have way too much respect for each other. Lame!

Literally just like an hour or two ago, I was playing NSMBW, constantly using that spin-move by shaking the remote. I thought to myself how this is like another button, just like Bob was saying. On this particular game, doing the spin requires a very, very small jerk to pull off; it doesn't take hardly any more energy than pushing a regular button. What IS different about it though is that it's easy to remember. The more buttons on a controller, the more annoyingly difficult a game is to control. But the shaking isn't a button, it's more like a reflex.

So really, it's getting more close what Yahtzee was talking about, not further. Really man, how frail are your wrists?

Edit: In fact, while on that subject, I did that finger-pinching-pencil thing you told everyone to do in the Psychonauts episode--multiple times--and it's never hurt me. Dude, I think you might want to get you hands checked out, and until then, take a break from what I assume is your lifestyle of giving ladies high-intensity boob massages all the time.

 

[LZeroK]

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
What? I'm speechless, besides nobody is going to read this.

 

[Joshimodo]

This is the best thing that has ever been on The Escapist. I approve.


Gotta say, I agree with Yahtzee on the aspect of immersion - Having to realise I have a controller in my hand and THAT is what is driving my actions on-screen is crippling to the immersion. Buttons are a far faster and less INTRUSIVE way into the videogame world. While I'd still appreciate a holodeck, none of the current motion controls feel like anything other than a roadblock on the path to immersion.


James raises a good point on the slow death part. However, if (or more likely, WHEN) Kinect and Move fail to live up to the Wii's motion control dominance, we may see actual innovation.



Anyway, Escapist - More of this.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Wow. You'd think this would be a lot more interesting. These people have way too much respect for each other. Lame!

Literally just like an hour or two ago, I was playing NSMBW, constantly using that spin-move by shaking the remote. I thought to myself how this is like another button, just like Bob was saying. On this particular game, doing the spin requires a very, very small jerk to pull off; it doesn't take hardly any more energy than pushing a regular button. What IS different about it though is that it's easy to remember. The more buttons on a controller, the more annoyingly difficult a game is to control. But the shaking isn't a button, it's more like a reflex.

So really, it's getting more close what Yahtzee was talking about, not further. Really man, how frail are your wrists?

I have to agree the question is too open ended, you can't really debate on such a broard topic (entire console business)

 

[cthulhumythos]

It's like Jesus, Cthulu and Gandhi having a poker game together... (Try guess who's who).

Future future future.... Is it weird that I can't see consoles (As they are Now) having a future. The whole thing feels kind of...I dunno I can't really explain it, it's like crack equivalent. Cheap low brow entertainment with no worries about getting anywhere. As long as you got them Halos, Marios and Gears right?

I blame the consumer. Stats say the average person is much smarter then they were in the past, so start showing it! -_-

well... halo's been losing ground for a while now (or at least i think it is, damn silent majority) and now that bungie's out of the picture, i'm going to assume it'll go down hill (sadly)

gears is ending after 3 (or so they say)

mario's an insurmountable mascot so he's not going anywhere.

and just for some other examples

mass effect's ending after 3 (or so they say again)

this one's lees fact driven but i doubt assassins creed can spread the plot over the course of multiple games (but, once again, that is nothing but speculation)

i'm sure there are some others, but i'm assuming the passing of these AAA titles might leave a vacuum that new and different games might creep in.

not that i have a HUGE problem with sequels.

 

[josh797]

Yeah, you know, oddly that doesn't really do much for me. So you might want to rethink your approach.

color me stunned. /sarcasm also yes, please more.

 

[Uszi]

Er, I wouldn't mind it if you guys made it longer.
Or continued this thread of conversation next week or bi-weekly in 4 page increments.

As it was, it did seem kind of cut-off arbitrarily.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

Bother! Now we'll never see another one! Cuurrrse youuuu Francis...!!

Another person offered acceptable tribute later in the comments. I am also learning from my mistake, and will update the potential positive reinforcement in the next test.

SCIENCE!

 

[mikespoff]

What's that you say? More from my three favourite video contributors?

Awesomeness - let's have more of these. Next time, with less agreement!

 

[mikespoff]

Er, I wouldn't mind it if you guys made it longer.
Or continued this thread of conversation next week or bi-weekly in 4 page increments.

As it was, it did seem kind of cut-off arbitrarily.

Good point - it was ok as an intro, but seemed that the conversation was just getting started when it was suddenly over.

Also, was it just me or were the pages each surprisingly short?

 

[A Curious Fellow]

Hands up who fully agrees with Yahtzee, yet again.

 

[LordFortune]

Can't wait to see more of this.

I must say very briefly that if Bob is going to say that Nintendo's numerous games (many of which I enjoy) continue to get better because they build off previous changes, then he isn't really in the right to accuse all shooters (which I also enjoy) of being pointless repetition. It's not that I think all shooters are good games (plenty are steps backward, and I've decided to only buy every -other- CoD game that comes out), but I still think it's a bit hypocritical.

 

[Uszi]

Er, I wouldn't mind it if you guys made it longer.
Or continued this thread of conversation next week or bi-weekly in 4 page increments.

As it was, it did seem kind of cut-off arbitrarily.

Good point - it was ok as an intro, but seemed that the conversation was just getting started when it was suddenly over.

Also, was it just me or were the pages each surprisingly short?

I would agree with that as well...
I would prefer that they either do only 1 email per page, or a few more per page. The 1,sometimes 2 thing was a little disconcerting.

Or all of it on just one page to scroll through, but I wouldn't know if the Escapist supports that kind of setup.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

So it seemed there was some agreement here that consoles were flailing in a creative lull. For me consoles are a low-ball middle of the road gaming devices that are inferior to PCs for shooters and RTSs, and inferior to portables for just about everything else.

I don't think the primary threat to their continued success is their lack of innovation or the slow adaptation of motion controls, but the 3DS and the NGP. On portables we still see interesting design efforts in games, whose single-player experiences tend to last 60 hours, rather than 6.

My gaming PC remains a preferred internet browser to my iPhone, barely. My PS3 still makes a fine blu-ray player and PSN interface. My psp is what I've actually been playing games on lately, and it is pretty obvious we are seeing only the beginning of portable's potential.

While I do agree with consoles being stuck in a rut it seems like you're blaming that on them being consoles. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. The reason why we have such stagnant ideas on consoles is because of the designers and not the platform. Creativity isn't limited by the console. I'm sure that a lot of the game concepts that you enjoy on portable systems or the PC could be made into console games without really losing quality. Although I do agree with you that FPS's and RTS's work a lot better on the PC. You seem to be missing out on a lot of genres though. What about Shadow of the Colossus? Would that game even be close to as good if it were on the PC or the DS? I highly doubt it.

Anyways, I think I'm rambling there. OT I definitely enjoyed this debate. I can't say that I completely agree with anyone's opinions on motion controls though. Motion controls in theory are a great idea. If they could be executed well then I'm sure they'd be amazing, unfortunately that's where the problem lies. So far I've yet to see a system that impressed me. Motion controls should make you feel more immersed in the game, instead I just feel like my body has been turned into a giant inefficiant controller that doesn't do what I want it to. Another big issue is that the industry is failing to make games with them and instead is just making gimmicks. I have high hopes for motion controls but I think that the day when they will be able to be executed properly is still a long way away.

So yeah, hope to see some more of this in the future.

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

I'd love to see more of this. If all of the three guys were willing to put in the effort, it would be great to see a weekly "round-table" discussion. Hell, they've all got video series, why not do a weekly video- you could introduce a topic at the beginning and just let them all fight it out!

Ok, I know why not. They all have lives, and are probably busy with their own projects, but I'd be grateful if this continued.

On an unrelated note, I expected them to not agree so much. I always imagined Bob and Yahtzee, at least, to be diametrically opposed, since their tastes are so radically different.