Consoles Are Holding Gaming Back

Racecarlock

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Well, send me the $100-$500 necessary along with some kind of electrical engineering manual, and I'll gladly join you in the future or whatever.

Fucking hell, why is everyone always trying to make me feel like some kind of darth vader-esque evil villain that's holding the industry back?

If all you want is graphics, fine, go watch some luxrender animations on youtube. I can't just pull money out of my ass and build a PC here. I just can't.

Edit: Also, if consoles didn't exist, this topic would just be called "Low end PCS are holding gaming back" and it would be the same tired ass bullshit.
 

Calcium

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4RM3D said:
Calcium said:
I'd go out on a limb and say the next Mario game will get more people into gaming than ArmA 2 or the Witcher 3.
Maybe, but if you start comparing Mario with The Witcher 3, you might as well start including Facebook (social) games and mobile games into the equation.
You can certainly compare the two in terms of budgets I imagine - something that you can't with mobile/social games. I'm not one of the "Your fun is different than my fun so your fun must be wrong" crowd though so if people enjoy passing time with those then good on them - just not my thing.

From my view though, social/mobile games don't move hardware. People will buy their first hardware to play something like Mario or the Sims 3. People will upgrade their hardware for things like ArmA and Total War, but these games don't grow the amount of gamers there are.

And with the way budgets of games have increased over the years, the more people there are that play games the better for many of the titles.
 

DoPo

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4RM3D said:
Anthony Corrigan said:
You think the averaged person would be willing to throw that much EVERY YEAR at there computer? of course not so your going to have older computers and you either alienate those customers or drop back your game to run on low to mid range systems anyway, most of which are LESS powerful than the PS3 (certainly more power in the PS3 than my laptop).
Not every year. A high end gaming PC can last for many years. But it is up to the person how much they want to spent. It's not like developers have to have insane minimum requirements. They could have low minimum requirements so that people with older or simpler PCs could still play the game (on low setting). And at the same time those developers could implement an ultra high setting for the people with new PCs.

It isn't all black and white.
Also, not to mention that if developers did start making games only for the bleeding edge of tech, the market would correct itself after a period. Really, how many people would be keeping up with tech all the time? Not a lot, so the market share for those games would be quite small, and indeed not a lot would be keeping up with the tech all the time, too. Many would just rely on Moor's Law and get the games in a couple of years or something. And now more than ever I expect a backlash to occur and provide a more immediate feedback that devs should hold their horses.
 

Guy from the 80's

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Graphics are important.

I've always been one of those "graphics means nothing just look at-rez" type of people but lately I've come to appreciate good graphics more than before. Graphics add to atmosphere and thats important in lets say open world games. Try comparing a modded version of Skyrim (better lightning etc) with the console version and you immediately see what I mean.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Nope, dont agree. Developers are holding gaming back. There are plenty of open world games, GTA, Saints Row, Elder Scrolls, Just Cause, Far Cry 3 and Fallout to name a few. So yeah, consoles dont matter. Its companies that would rather bring out the next cod game. Id rather a linear awesome game than a game made big just for the sake of it.

What is holding games back is developers and massive AAA budgets. Hiring big name stars and spending money badly. Graphics and power is great, but doesnt matter if its wasted on a shitty game. Look at Crysis 3 - crappy game that had great graphics. Im not interested in ultra realistic graphics, because it just takes more power to move them around. I would rather have lower graphics but with an increased experience. For instance, do you remember that CoD game where you stormed the Normandy Beaches, like the start of Saving Private Ryan? Well i want that. I want huge towns etc to fight through with lots of ai soldiers fighting alongside you so you feel your part of a bigger war. Thats what i thought the future of gaming would be, instead with each console gen and next installment of cod/MW/Blops the games got more linear as the graphics got better.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Look, back in the days of old and yore awonder, consoles had a graphical style that was decidedly different from what you'd get on home computers and PCs. Yes, back in the day there were pretty much at least half a dozen competing computer systems around at all times, not including dad's boring but very expensive PC.

If you were alive and beyond pooping your pants during the times of the Commodore 64, the ZX Spectrum, the Atari ST, the various inarnations of the Amiga or the Apple II were what people used to play games on, and PC graphics were mostly still made up of ASCII characters of sorts, and their screens came in green or amber with the only other colour being black.

The rise of arcade games was, for at least two decades, the apex of where it was at, technically speaking. Home computer ports of popular arcade games were always peacemeal, downsized, ugly and shoddy with but few exceptions that brought that arcade feeling home in a satisfactory manner during the 8 bit dark ages. The 16 bit computers, especially the Amiga, brought with it a graphical fidelity for the masses that was mindblowing and very, very inspiring. By the time the PC caught up, EA - then still ECA - was established as freaks and hippies turned suit-and-tie entrepreneurs.

From the top of me silly head, I'd say that up to the PS2 era of things there were two rather different worlds in full effect, one being the PC games world, the other the console games world... with arcade games being on the decline. I'd wager to posit another thought: The PS3 and the XBOX killed off proper arcade games, as they killed many an arcade.

Sadly enough, both machines were nothing more than very, very limited PC gaming rigs with very peculiar processor choices that shaped the gaming world to come with predetermined on-rails experiences or tunnel vision approached to things, no matter how good the devs and programmers managed to hide that sorry fact from us.

The limitations of these new machines eventually started bleeding over to actual PC games, and their success is what brought with it plenty of other funny and ludicrous ideas. Rising costs pretty much killed off proper PC-specific development, the consoles becoming the lowest common denominator that was to be the mold to shape all things to come. You didn't see anything like the first Crysis duing the reign of PS3/360, the sequels are... sad little things compared to the first one, no matter how much coding expertise and love they put into them. The new generation of consoles might solve this one particular huge problem by - finally - raising the bar. They are no guarantee for actual good games, though. I'd still expect true cheap thrills and proper innovation to pop up in the minis/XBL games, if they are allowed to thrive on the new systems.

I am looking forward to the PS4 as it looks like it will allow for games to go back in time a bit, because with significantly more power and RAM at their disposal, devs can finally pick up the pieces again and start anew where PC gaming died a little a decade ago. Of course, the Xbox 3 (xbox one for people with severe dyscalculia and a dislike for capital letters) started out on a different path, building on the assumption that customers were stupid and easily caught, culled and turned into a constant revenue stream that was locked down and under total remote control of Big Brother Central.

So... with consoles being nothing but locked down, glorified and mostly single-purpose PCs these days, your argument is invalid. The cake of having multiple systems to choose from has been a lie ever since the 360 and the PS3 were released, with the only random exception being Nintendo's output of fun and weird.

Where's that guy with his non-sequitur false dichotomy and his army of strawmen? I miss him.
 

4RM3D

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Trippy Turtle said:
Most games made don't even reach the limits.
Well, most games are indie games after all. But I suppose you meant to say: Most AAA games made don't even reach the limits. Even then, it's a tricky statement, because it is unknown what the limit really is. Anyhow, I do believe developers are hitting a wall, it might not be a graphical one, but it is definitely there.

Trippy Turtle said:
Graphics are not the most important part of a game, they are rarely even important at all.
Opinions. Still, it is something I already mentioned in the OP. It might not be the most important but it still can be discussed.

Trippy Turtle said:
If you think progress consists of better graphics and higher specs,
Yes, better graphics = progress, but not every game needs it and it isn't the only way or even the most important way to progress. Nonetheless it is progress of some sort.

Trippy Turtle said:
If everyone had to buy a high end PC to game then this would be a dying industry, relatively few people would drop $2,000 on a gaming system.
Well, what I have mentioned before: it isn't all black and white. People could still buy cheap PCs and still being able to run all games, albeit not with max settings.

Trippy Turtle said:
In the end this discussion is moot anyway because as far as I can tell the industry is progressing fine. Lets get back to something productive like insulting EA.
Hehe, EA... I wouldn't say the industry is progressing. Changing, definitely... but progressing? *looks at EA*. There are good side to the industry and bad sides. Alright, alright, overall it is progressing. Though I do feel like the game market has stagnated over the past few years (not talking about graphics here). Sure mobile and social games have become more popular and widespread, but that is what I meant with changing, rather than progressing. Where is my Planescape: Torment 2 and Baldur's Gate 3? *looks at Kickstarter* Oh, there it is. Yes, Kickstarter and it's ilk have had a huge impact on the gaming industry since Double Fine tried it. So yeah, there have been some (indirect) improvements.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Publishers that are not familiar with video game market and that are trying to treat it like it's meat industry are holding gaming back.
 
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aw man, only online game im playing at the mo is awesomenauts. 2D basic cartoony graphics. really enjoying it

playing hit man, and the graphics are great, but its just killing my pc when on ultra, n doesnt really add to the experience much
 

MammothBlade

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Oct 12, 2011
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4RM3D said:
Ah, catchy subject, no? While I do agree that consoles are holding gaming back. I am specifically referring to the graphics. The graphics have stagnated over the past few years and I believe the most important reason is that every developer is developing for the consoles. Even the PC version is based off the consoles and won't make the most use of the PC's power. The current gen consoles are at their limit.

Of course there is light on the horizon. New consoles are coming and with it better specs. This (hopefully) means there will be a new standard for graphics. And as a result the games released on the PC will also be graphically better. Although I also hear people say the new consoles are already outdated.

What do you think?

I should note though that I don't think graphical improvements are absolutely necessary. It would be nice for the more realistic games. But for the more stylish games (aesthetic), it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
No, they're not. Can we just drop this bullshit argument once and for all?

Consider that most people can't afford to or don't have the technical know-how to keep upgrading their graphics card or CPU to the latest model either. Even if it was just PCs, they'd be constrained by the rate of new hardware adoption. A console is an investment in optimum playability for ~ 6 years.

Consoles are good for gamers in general because they provide accessibility and consistency.
 

4RM3D

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MammothBlade said:
No, they're not. Can we just drop this bullshit argument once and for all?

Consider that most people can't afford to or don't have the technical know-how to keep upgrading their graphics card or CPU to the latest model either. Even if it was just PCs, they'd be constrained by the rate of new hardware adoption. A console is an investment in optimum playability for ~ 6 years.

Consoles are good for gamers in general because they provide accessibility and consistency.
And everyone assumes PC gaming is difficult and expensive. You could have your system build in the store you bought it. That store most likely has premade systems for gamers also, ranging from cheap to ludicrous speed (Spaceballs).

A PC might still be more expensive than a console, but not overly expensive.

Still, +1 for the Redline avatar.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Go home OP, you're drunk. Or watch this Bayonetta 2 trailer instead.
No, I will not watch the Bayonetta 2 trailer. Damn traitors. PS4 exclusive, fine... heck, even Xbone exclusive would be fine. But the WiiU!? WTF! It does not belong on the WiiU and certainly not as exclusive.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
That is supposed to tell me that consoles are holding gaming back? Console exclusive games like this are supposed to be the indicator that consoles are holding us all back?
Exclusives suck. I ain't buying a WiiU, PS4 and Xbone. If it's console exclusive as in the game is release on all consoles, but not the PC, that is fine. But if it's limited to one console, no no.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
As for the other movies... some are from the next gen consoles. When I made this topic, I was referring to the current gen. Still, some games do look rather impressive. The developers sometimes even surprise me what they can do with so "little".
 

MammothBlade

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4RM3D said:
MammothBlade said:
No, they're not. Can we just drop this bullshit argument once and for all?

Consider that most people can't afford to or don't have the technical know-how to keep upgrading their graphics card or CPU to the latest model either. Even if it was just PCs, they'd be constrained by the rate of new hardware adoption. A console is an investment in optimum playability for ~ 6 years.

Consoles are good for gamers in general because they provide accessibility and consistency.
And everyone assumes PC gaming is difficult and expensive. You could have your system build in the store you bought it. That store most likely has premade systems for gamers also, ranging from cheap to ludicrous speed (Spaceballs).

A PC might still be more expensive than a console, but not overly expensive.

Still, +1 for the Redline avatar.
Still, you have to concede that PC games have compatibility issues much more than any console games. You can play console games just out of the box because they're optimised for that particular system, whereas with PCs you have all sorts of different things that might not work. No wonder PC gaming has a reputation for being difficult and expensive to get into. Now I play more games on PC than on console, particularly those which are better controlled with mouse and keyboard - strategy, FPS, etc. Yet consoles seem better for certain more cinematic, story-oriented experiences.

(And thanks, I can just smell the high-octane petroleum)
 

redwolflim86

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Consoles did not hold the games back. Developers are the major factor that hold the games back. Good graphic doesn't mean good gameplay. Two good examples are: Minecraft (THAT GRAPHIC!!!) and Dwarf Fortress.

If you want to argue about graphic, think about this: Developers and Publishers are a bunch of greedy demons, they are trying to sell as many games as possible in order to earn the maximum profits. If they develop a high resolution graphic game based on specific gaming video card like "GTX Titan", one of the best graphic card we could get at the moment, but imagine how many PCs will shit themselves if they try to run the game with low quality video card....

Heck, if the consoles never exist in the first place, the developers will still develop the game based on the mid-level video card only, and it wont optimised the graphic resolution for the next-gen video game.

It is always up to the Developers, do not put the blames to consoles
 

FootloosePhoenix

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4RM3D said:
I am aware there is more to it than graphics. I just choose to make this thread about graphics, because I was curious about it.

High end graphics are expensive, but creating big open worlds (with a lot of detail) and creating complex AI are expensive also. So, corners have to be cut to make the budget. It is fine if they cut corners in the graphics, but then I would expect something in return. Instead we still don't have high end graphics or complex AI or good open worlds (minus Skyrim, maybe). Actually we haven't had any improvements over the past few years. There has been more variation in the indie scene with a lot of interesting games. But those are not better, just more refreshing.
You seem to have extraordinarily high expectations. We do have high-end graphics and we do have good open-worlds (as I noted earlier, AI does seem to be lagging behind the rest of advancements). Could they be better? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't make what we have anything to scoff at. I can't think of a single game this generation that looked bad due to technical limitations. Saying things have stagnated during this generation isn't correct, either; look at the difference between the first inFamous game and the second, for example, or Uncharted and The Last of Us or the first BioShock and Infinite.
There has been more variation in the indie scene with a lot of interesting games. But those are not better, just more refreshing.
Well "better" is very subjective and would depend on the indie game in question. But I would argue the exact opposite of what you're coming across as saying; indie games are making the industry markedly better as a whole by breaking the possibility for innovation and creativity wide open. That doesn't mean every indie game is good, of course, but the movement as a whole is invaluable. With the point we've already reached with video game graphics and technology as a whole, it is much more important for creativity to be at the forefront of development than new shinies.

I still think you're placing the blame for lack of technological progress on the wrong thing, anyway. It's not the consoles themselves but the market that has formed. The video game industry is now viewed as a business like any other and developers/publishers need their products to be as accessible as possible. Consoles and average PCs that can't run the apex of graphics are convenient for this.
 

James Crook

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They're holding back gaming due to hardware limitations such as memory, which negatively impact both the AI and the gameplay's depth as devs attempt to streamline the game's features to make it playable with a controller and such limited specs.
Just look at Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas. The cities feel small, empty, dead. The Strip was cut up in three parts, and so was Freeside. The Wasteland didn't even feel like a warzone between the NCR and the Legion. In Skyrim, Solitude and Whiterun, despite being some of the biggest cities in the lore, felt puny.