Valid points. People should only complain if they have a decent argument. Mind you, there's not much of that going about in the gaming community.
"Contrarian" Gamers Suck Says Treyarch
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
LoL, on the surface, this seems like a response to the negative comments about CoD:BlOps. There are three ways you can take a negative comment.
First, you need to discover whether or not the commentator is saying something worthwhile. Comments like, "Dude, this game sucks...", aren't worthwhile comments to concern yourself with. Paying attention to these things will only make you pull your hair right out of your head. And it doesn't matter if 15 million people bought your game, that still doesn't mean it's for everyone.
Second, if the commentator is "bitching" about an issue of the game not running properly, these should try to be focused on. For instance, CoD:BlOps on the PC has issues on some PC's that should be addressed, such as random frame rate drops (90 FPS one second, then 30 FPS a second later). I know not every computer runs with the same issues, but if an issue is showing up as rampantly as this one seems to, it should try to be fixed or the developer should at least try to assuage the player community.
Third, if they are saying something they feel is a problem with core of the game, and there are a bunch of people who agree with them, you should think about this on the next iteration of the game. Nothing can change this now that the current game is released. So, by and large, these are comments that should largely be ignored by the people working on that iteration of the game.
All that being said, you should not release a product and ***** about the amount of folks who don't like it, especially if it sold well. I agree, the majority of comments are bullshit.... so why are you worrying so much about them. But, you have no right to blame the negative commentators for the industry not progressing. Some people complain just to complain, hate just for the sake of hate. The industry doesn't progress because big companies only bet on the money makers. CoD in general is a fantastic franchise, and Treyarch has a very rich development history. As near as I can tell, the only real numerous complaints have been with their largest selling property, CoD:BlOps. The problem with the game for some people is that it does not offer any step forward from the previous CoD games. Who's fault is it that the industry doesn't progress? Sounds to me like you catered to the least common denominator, but turned the largest profit from it. That is the price to be paid. I personally don't care for the multiplayer in the game, but that is my thing. I don't like the kill streak style play of it, it's not the game or Treyarch, I don't play any multiplayer like that. The explosions are annoying because my screen shakes and I can't hit anything, but the enemies can shoot me dead just fine, it leads to unnecessary redoes and a lot of annoyance.
First, you need to discover whether or not the commentator is saying something worthwhile. Comments like, "Dude, this game sucks...", aren't worthwhile comments to concern yourself with. Paying attention to these things will only make you pull your hair right out of your head. And it doesn't matter if 15 million people bought your game, that still doesn't mean it's for everyone.
Second, if the commentator is "bitching" about an issue of the game not running properly, these should try to be focused on. For instance, CoD:BlOps on the PC has issues on some PC's that should be addressed, such as random frame rate drops (90 FPS one second, then 30 FPS a second later). I know not every computer runs with the same issues, but if an issue is showing up as rampantly as this one seems to, it should try to be fixed or the developer should at least try to assuage the player community.
Third, if they are saying something they feel is a problem with core of the game, and there are a bunch of people who agree with them, you should think about this on the next iteration of the game. Nothing can change this now that the current game is released. So, by and large, these are comments that should largely be ignored by the people working on that iteration of the game.
All that being said, you should not release a product and ***** about the amount of folks who don't like it, especially if it sold well. I agree, the majority of comments are bullshit.... so why are you worrying so much about them. But, you have no right to blame the negative commentators for the industry not progressing. Some people complain just to complain, hate just for the sake of hate. The industry doesn't progress because big companies only bet on the money makers. CoD in general is a fantastic franchise, and Treyarch has a very rich development history. As near as I can tell, the only real numerous complaints have been with their largest selling property, CoD:BlOps. The problem with the game for some people is that it does not offer any step forward from the previous CoD games. Who's fault is it that the industry doesn't progress? Sounds to me like you catered to the least common denominator, but turned the largest profit from it. That is the price to be paid. I personally don't care for the multiplayer in the game, but that is my thing. I don't like the kill streak style play of it, it's not the game or Treyarch, I don't play any multiplayer like that. The explosions are annoying because my screen shakes and I can't hit anything, but the enemies can shoot me dead just fine, it leads to unnecessary redoes and a lot of annoyance.
The reason no one concentrates on the good is because every official review of a game concentrates on the good mostly, unless of course there is no good to it. I recall this being the case with the game, Legendary.Trogdor1138 said:
If a person has paid good money for a game, they're as entitled to ***** about it as anyone buying an expensive meal at a fine dining establishment is about their meal. I don't think the complaining is really the issue, I think it would be more prudent to see WHY people are complaining. Sure there will be many of them that are just angst-driven jerks, but many complaints are valid.
As for this "if you hate the game why are you playing it?" nonsense, I seem to remember there being a lot of consumer rights slashed away with regards to refunding money for an opened game. If I spend my money on something I cannot return only after finding out it's a steaming pile, the least I could do is try to eke out some kind of amusement from it.
I could rant for pages on this, I really could, but if someone want's to generalize people and lump anyone that has had a game breaking bug, or has been the victim of griefers using exploits the programmers didn't catch, etc, then there's just not getting through. That's the pot calling the kettle black, and that's just the kind of hypocrisy the industry doesn't need.
My sympathy perhaps in the next life, Mr. Olin.
As for this "if you hate the game why are you playing it?" nonsense, I seem to remember there being a lot of consumer rights slashed away with regards to refunding money for an opened game. If I spend my money on something I cannot return only after finding out it's a steaming pile, the least I could do is try to eke out some kind of amusement from it.
I could rant for pages on this, I really could, but if someone want's to generalize people and lump anyone that has had a game breaking bug, or has been the victim of griefers using exploits the programmers didn't catch, etc, then there's just not getting through. That's the pot calling the kettle black, and that's just the kind of hypocrisy the industry doesn't need.
My sympathy perhaps in the next life, Mr. Olin.
That was a member of the latest COD team speaking out about the importance of creativity in the video game industry.
Up next in hypocrisy corner...
But seriously guys, he's right, we need to learn to take being nickel and dimed with on-disc DLC, stop complaining about the likes of removal of mod support on PCs and just accept that complaining is wrong and companies are always in the right because they need more money.
Up next in hypocrisy corner...
But seriously guys, he's right, we need to learn to take being nickel and dimed with on-disc DLC, stop complaining about the likes of removal of mod support on PCs and just accept that complaining is wrong and companies are always in the right because they need more money.
Greg Tito said:
It could just be that you're following the heels of a company that had its heart ripped out [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/105486-Activision-Completes-Infinity-Ward-Restructuring-Says-Everythings-Fine] or that
or that those that do play it describe Nuketown as rather underwhelming [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.246313-Nuketown-Your-thoughts].
Or, you know, there might be feedback to give to Blops?
Here's an idea: On your official forums, ban people who spout complete and utter bullshit. There. I've solved your problem.
The issue is that game devs, and especially MMO devs, don't have the balls to boot people who bring nothing to the table. There are valid ways to express criticism through the developers' communications channels, and there are valid ways for the developers to react.
If someone says "BLOPS IS SUCH A CRAP GAME Y DO U PEPLE PLAYING IT?," ban them. I don't want to put up with them any more than you do.
Just don't ***** when the people left over start complaining that you aren't releasing fixes for all the valid issues, such as the inability to play for more than an hour at a time, rampant cheating and exploiting, the inability to launch the game *at all,* and more.
We put up with assholes in the real world because it is morally and ethically wrong to make them disappear. We need to dispense with that when it comes to on-line communication. People aren't going to die because you deleted their posts and banned them.
The issue is that game devs, and especially MMO devs, don't have the balls to boot people who bring nothing to the table. There are valid ways to express criticism through the developers' communications channels, and there are valid ways for the developers to react.
If someone says "BLOPS IS SUCH A CRAP GAME Y DO U PEPLE PLAYING IT?," ban them. I don't want to put up with them any more than you do.
Just don't ***** when the people left over start complaining that you aren't releasing fixes for all the valid issues, such as the inability to play for more than an hour at a time, rampant cheating and exploiting, the inability to launch the game *at all,* and more.
See? Posts like this. This contributes absolutely NOTHING to the discussion. Why is this post allowed to continue existing?
We put up with assholes in the real world because it is morally and ethically wrong to make them disappear. We need to dispense with that when it comes to on-line communication. People aren't going to die because you deleted their posts and banned them.
No, thank you for your arrogant, snobbish, sarcasm. No need to get all upset just cuz the majority of the internet is whiny and retarded, I periodically check the very forums he's talking about, and for every idiot, there is a rational, intelligent person with well stated points.Anton P. Nym said:
There are people who complain about games for the sake of complaining. There are others who have legitimate concerns and who want, and should, have them heard.
I don't judge a game completely until I get a chance to play it. I played New Vegas and it bugged out on me. I stopped playing it until Dead Money came along and I hoped that it would come with the patch that would fix the bugs. It didn't and I stopped playing it. I want to be able to play the game my way and not in some convoluted manner that will keeps me safe from all the bugs.
I don't judge a game completely until I get a chance to play it. I played New Vegas and it bugged out on me. I stopped playing it until Dead Money came along and I hoped that it would come with the patch that would fix the bugs. It didn't and I stopped playing it. I want to be able to play the game my way and not in some convoluted manner that will keeps me safe from all the bugs.
By 'pundits' and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian!?
He sounds like he cannot fathom there is anything wrong with his game, and that everyone who disagrees is just doing it for giggles. If the game industry is that far gone, then there is no saving it. If this is how they are thinking it's no wonder developers never listen to feedback and improve on their games. CoughBungiecough
He sounds like he cannot fathom there is anything wrong with his game, and that everyone who disagrees is just doing it for giggles. If the game industry is that far gone, then there is no saving it. If this is how they are thinking it's no wonder developers never listen to feedback and improve on their games. CoughBungiecough
I think people are well within their rights to complain about black ops for PC and PS3. It was buggy a and has a host of problems which would of been found and corrected if they did their jobs properly and tested the games. They clearly did not test the PC version at all or they might of noticed that it wasn't using any kind of processor with multiple cores on release.
So manybe if they did their fucking jobs better they wouldn't get so many complaints.
So manybe if they did their fucking jobs better they wouldn't get so many complaints.
You make generic games for the masses, expect to be flamed. If 10% of gamers who play your game like to flame you, the more total gamers playing, the more total flamers you get.
For example I doubt Frictional Games (ie: Penumbra, Amnesia) get flamed and trolled much.
Not to mention, having bugs only compounds the problem. I think gamers have a right to think they're entitled to a WORKING GAME.
For example I doubt Frictional Games (ie: Penumbra, Amnesia) get flamed and trolled much.
Not to mention, having bugs only compounds the problem. I think gamers have a right to think they're entitled to a WORKING GAME.
people dont complain just to piss off community managers.
they complain because theres a problem. unless the person complaining hasnt given the game enough time for them form a valid opinion, its not their fault a game is riddled with bugs etc.
additionally, complaining should aid 'evolution', rather than "devolution". if developers try to work for their audience, critisism is the best way to find out what needs changing, to help evolve the series.
they complain because theres a problem. unless the person complaining hasnt given the game enough time for them form a valid opinion, its not their fault a game is riddled with bugs etc.
additionally, complaining should aid 'evolution', rather than "devolution". if developers try to work for their audience, critisism is the best way to find out what needs changing, to help evolve the series.
He's absolutely right.
There's only 4 words you need to know to stop being a leeching ponce on the game industry: "Constructive Criticism and Feedback." This is what you deliver to the publisher and/or developer because they will use the best of it in improving their product and future products which equates to more fun times for everyone!
If you really want to do something helpful for the people working at a Development house and all you DO know is how to complain, then focus that rage at the Publisher that owns them! Demand better treatment of employees and less bullshit work environments! If they enjoy their jobs and are able to express their passion for creating video games, we'll be rewarded with better results.
Tell those dickfarts like EA, Activision, and THQ that their arbitrary profit-maximizing release dates can fuck right off because we'll buy it anyway if it's good and worth it! I'd rather see these supposed "triple A" titles be released with all the bugs and glitches worked out (or as many as possible) instead of saying fuck it and releasing it before it's done! This kind of shit would NEVER fly back in the 8-bit/16-bit days, it seems like the more we have to pay for a game, the less finished it is anymore.
There's only 4 words you need to know to stop being a leeching ponce on the game industry: "Constructive Criticism and Feedback." This is what you deliver to the publisher and/or developer because they will use the best of it in improving their product and future products which equates to more fun times for everyone!
If you really want to do something helpful for the people working at a Development house and all you DO know is how to complain, then focus that rage at the Publisher that owns them! Demand better treatment of employees and less bullshit work environments! If they enjoy their jobs and are able to express their passion for creating video games, we'll be rewarded with better results.
Tell those dickfarts like EA, Activision, and THQ that their arbitrary profit-maximizing release dates can fuck right off because we'll buy it anyway if it's good and worth it! I'd rather see these supposed "triple A" titles be released with all the bugs and glitches worked out (or as many as possible) instead of saying fuck it and releasing it before it's done! This kind of shit would NEVER fly back in the 8-bit/16-bit days, it seems like the more we have to pay for a game, the less finished it is anymore.
Why yes, of course. Why didn't they see that before?
Why yes, of course. Make games of good quality. I'll send them a letter about this right away and it should turn the industry around immediately. Any more "constructive" criticism?HankMan said:
Yeah...but No.robinkom said:
Do you really want me to rattle out all the bad ports we got on the ST, Amiga, C64, C16, Electron, Speccy?...because I could fill an entire forum.
