"Contrarian" Gamers Suck Says Treyarch

[zdrux]

They are reaping what they sow. This is what happens when you move all your games to consoles which are overly accessible to spoiled and lobotomized 14 and 16 year old kids who do nothing but sit in the living room, and play video games. What did you think was going to happen?!

I've never seen negativity like this from PC gamers back in the day.

 

[Mokuren]

http://i54.tinypic.com/mjbktk.jpg

I get it that trolls aren't fun, but seriously, just because there's immature people spewing nonsense about anything and whining for the sake of whining, this doesn't mean that everything that comes out of a studio and is branded as AAA is above any and every criticism.

Last time I bought a game on release was when Temple of Elemental Evil came out; yes, it was a shitty game and it sucked and had I bought another I'd have been less burned, but it taught me a valuable lesson: nobody cares about releasing a game when it's complete.

And mind you, I perfectly understand all the economic reasons for doing so, but I also am not the sort of person that absolutely needs to buy a game on day 0, nor I see a reason. I'll buy your games if I like them and only when they'll be ready, not when you decide to push out a clearly Beta version that I am supposed to pay 60$ for because you want my money now.

I don't know how the industry got to this point, but I refuse to believe it's the only way to conduct business.

 

[Loonerinoes]

To be frank I often wonder who is worse. The contrarians or the fanboys? You can shoot down a contrarian fairly easy, because most of the time punching holes in their arguments is easy if indeed they happen to be unfounded and if they still don't admit to there being a problem with their logic after you present valid points as to why their argument was flawed, then you can safely dismiss them as trolls and just not bother anymore.

But trying to punch holes in a fanboy's arguments is an exercise in futility. You punch a hole in one of *their* arguments and they'll immediately make up a million and one excuses for it, saying that it wasn't really what they meant, saying that there are so many other stuff they forgot to tell you about the awesomness that is the object of their adoration.

With contrarians you can try and if it turns out that they still can't adress some of the logic holes, then you can still leave them alone secure in the knowledge that they aren't quite on top of what they're arguing against. But with fanboys you can't have an argument that is anywhere near proper - if you disagree with them, you're automatically in the wrong and always will be because who are you to tell experts like *them* what's good and what's not if they enjoy it?

So while both camps piss me off greatly often enough, I'd still say it's fanboys who are far more damaging for not being critical enough of what it is that they adore.

Also...for a community manager to say something like this, I'm quite frankly certain that they should look to find another job. Because if you can't learn to ignore the irrational arguments against your product while focusing on the constructive ones, then there's something you're not doing right in this department. But then again, maybe he was just having a bad day at the office so who knows.

 

[Grampy_bone]

"Wah wah wah, making games is teh hardz, stop being so meeeeeeean!"

Fuck that. Anyone who states that anything is somehow exempt from criticism for any reason is only a sore loser. If you put something out for public consumption and it's a bucket of shit, people are going to tell you it's a bucket of shit, and you just have to deal with that. It doesn't *matter* if the shit bucket is "just for entertainment" or whatever.

Shit is shit.

 

[robinkom]

This kind of shit would NEVER fly back in the 8-bit/16-bit days,

Yeah...but No.

Do you really want me to rattle out all the bad ports we got on the ST, Amiga, C64, C16, Electron, Speccy?...because I could fill an entire forum.

Consoles only I'm talking about... and not the Atari 2600, I could fill an entire forum with that alone. Yeah I know there's some questionable stuff on the Amiga and C64, I have both and some really hard-to-look-at games for them. At the earliest, 8-Bit NES and up, once there were at least some form of standards to get games published on a system.

 

[Ddgafd]

Ah. It's Treyarch in all of it's infamous glory, meaning that now we must talk about Black Ops being bad, even though it has very little to do with the actual thread.

Anyway, I can see where they're coming from, but people "bitching" is to be expected. No game is perfect, especially Black Ops, but should they? In my opinion there should always be room for improvement, in case there is a sequel.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Treyarch and every developer/producer/whatthefuckever really needs to develop a thicker skin for these sorts of situations.

 

[Blind Sight]

I agree with his point about gamers being self-entitled, as I myself have stated that numerous times on these forums. But it seems like he's just using that as a reason to ignore legitimate complaints as well. I haven't played Black Ops, but from what I've heard there's been plenty of technical problems with it. Also, policies such as overpriced map packs are not going to get people on their side. There is a definite difference between legitimate problems with a game, and just plain bitching.

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Ergh, I sort of agree with this guy, but only in part.

Yes, a lot of gamers ***** for the sake of bitching and then continue to play the game they're bitching about on a daily basis. If you don't like the game, don't goddamn play it, but that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to have your say. State your point, put the game down, job done.

Second, this is quite rich coming form Treyarch, a dev house perpetuating the cycle of rushed, buggy, occaisionally totally broken games with no creativity.
Yes, I bought Black Ops for PC. Yes, I play the multiplayer here and there, but any time I spend with the game is soured to the point where I wonder why I bought the game in the first place. Too many killstreaks (preventing what I refer to as "gentleman's duel gameplay," which should be the lifeforce of an MP game,) and AWFUL optimisation. The SP ran fine for me at max settings, 1080p, anti-aliasing 4x. The MP runs awfully with all the settings turned down really low, 1440x900, no anti-aliasing.
I'd really rather it were the other way around.
It's a shame, because when the MP's good, it's really good. Treyarch have really come on as developers. The mood, feel and pacing of the campaign was excellent and for the most part, the MP is a lot of fun, it's a shame to let such silly things ruin the experience.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

Spoiler

http://i54.tinypic.com/mjbktk.jpg

I get it that trolls aren't fun, but seriously, just because there's immature people spewing nonsense about anything and whining for the sake of whining, this doesn't mean that everything that comes out of a studio and is branded as AAA is above any and every criticism.

Last time I bought a game on release was when Temple of Elemental Evil came out; yes, it was a shitty game and it sucked and had I bought another I'd have been less burned, but it taught me a valuable lesson: nobody cares about releasing a game when it's complete.

And mind you, I perfectly understand all the economic reasons for doing so, but I also am not the sort of person that absolutely needs to buy a game on day 0, nor I see a reason. I'll buy your games if I like them and only when they'll be ready, not when you decide to push out a clearly Beta version that I am supposed to pay 60$ for because you want my money now.

I don't know how the industry got to this point, but I refuse to believe it's the only way to conduct business.

I totally agree, people complain for a reason (usually) and if we have something negative to say about a game then he should probably take it into account instead of getting offended. Frankly, I get a little annoyed when I'm being honest to try to give someone realistic advice and they ignore it because they have to get offended. I'm fairly reasonable most of the time (in that I pussy out about being honest because I know everyone's ego gets hurt when I'm honest, and I never get anywhere) but about trolls, rather than saying that all us little forum-posters don't get games, I think he needs to get used to trolls and take in what constructive criticism he can.
I hear big corporations complain about losing money because X Million number of people aren't forking out 60$ every time you release a game, but if you're at the point where that's happening, your expectations are getting a little out of control IMO. I've liked games and I still do, but it really really feels like it's getting less about making interesting things and more about falling into a routine of releasing a 60$ game with slightly increased graphics than the last game every so often.

In my opinion, except MAYBE for constant-games, like MMOs, I don't think huge corporations have much to offer. Sure they spend millions making a somewhat generic game with really good graphics, but I games should be made by smaller companies who want to try new ideas or improve on old ones, rather than larger companies that monopolize the gaming industry because they have more money than everyone else.

Maybe I'm weird, but I just don't respect people who have no aim in life but to make more money. I'm not labeling every single person in a large company with that sentence, but it feels like it applies pretty heavily, how many innovative new interesting games have you seen come out of EA or Activision that didn't come from a smaller company that they bought?

To finish it off, and I'm going to be a little harsh here, rather than forum-posters like us, I think YOU are the one who is forgetting what gaming is about if instead of taking advice where it's due and ignoring trolls, you choose to get offended and complain about it.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

At the earliest, 8-Bit NES and up, once there were at least some form of standards to get games published on a system.

You're talking circa '84...I can push right back to '77 and that sort of thing was still going on with the VCS, way before the 2600.

But the NES? Metal Gear 1/2, the whole "foofing" shtick, nearby electrics switching on causing the NES to freeze, overheating
No generation has been free of shite games released under "licence".

 

[teknoarcanist]

"When asked if he could change anything about the game industry, Treyarch's community manager said ... 'The fans.'"

Boy somebody is good at his job, eh :X

 

[Booze Zombie]

I like when people offer bitching for a good reason, such as when a game is terrible.
If you don't ***** and don't offer solutions to problems, people will sit around and let their creativity slump in a corner as they lazily add nothing to a product but some polish and sell it to you.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up price yet...

I think it's perfectly valid for people to ***** about games, FOR ANY REASON THEY CHOOSE. Video may be the most "creative" form of entertainment, as he states, but they're also the most expensive. I understand all of the expenses that go into making a game, that still doesn't negate the fact that playing AAA titles (like the COD series) is really fucking hard on our wallets. If I get more entertainment value out of a sub-par Blu-ray film for 15 dollars or a 10 dollar album that only has 3 good tracks on it than a 60 dollar game that only has a handful of good campaign missions and multiplayer than I may not enjoy, why should I keep my mouth shut?

Want to stop the bitching? Make perfect games, or at least improve the entertainment value-to-dollar value ratio.

 

[Popido]

How about they just stop making games? Let those who have more interest and innovative take your place.

You're not supposed to please fans by making what they want, but by making what you want. Cant take the criticism and trolling? GTFO! Seriously. Im having enough with artist blaming me for low sales and bad reputation, because I dont get their art. Fuck off.

See? Posts like this. This contributes absolutely NOTHING to the discussion. Why is this post allowed to continue existing?

We put up with assholes in the real world because it is morally and ethically wrong to make them disappear. We need to dispense with that when it comes to on-line communication. People aren't going to die because you deleted their posts and banned them.

I said: Stop whining. People dont like your painting? Bohoo.

Ignore trolls and learn from criticism or dont. Do NOT make games thinking that you'll surely please all the fans with it. Fans dont drool over your art because you know how to make art that pleases them, but because your art pleases them. Simply, you dont go to the fans. Fans come to you. And if they dont, big deal.

No, Im not saying that the internet is not flooded with facebookers opinions and rate-me posts.

Im against, him blaming the fans from blocking the creativity. Stop pleasing the fans. Stop trying to please the statistic majority. Make games that you think are awesome.

 

[Sexbad]

More than that, Olin believes the reactions are actually holding the industry back from taking risks. "It's a creative industry - the most creative form of entertainment in existence."

Congratulations, and this is coming from a company that made three Call of Duty games.

 

[Antari]

In my case its not just a matter of simply bitching. I happen to have functional memory, something the game industry doesn't seem to have. When I see a poorly slapped together rehash from the 1980's, to the quality level I'd expect from a high school project being toted as the next greatest game in history. I'm going to *****. I'd like to see the game industry PROGRESS. Which it doesn't seem capable of doing in a large corporate setting. Indie developers seem to be able to make fantastically fun games on less than 1/50th what major developers spend on triple A title.

Thanks Josh Olin, you've given me a reason not to look at Treyarch in the future. I have a job too, not too fond of it. But I still have to do it. If your that disapointed with your career choice, there are others. Either way, blaming the customers is NOT going to get you anywhere.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

From pretty much anyone else, I would accept that as honest statement. But since Black Ops just took 45 minutes to find a fucking match (which was laggy), and before that froze three times, I think Treyarch deserves all the bitching they get, and then some.

Your game made more money than god, now get some proper fucking net code!

Fuck!