Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

[Czann]

Wow, these companies are really terrified of the Twitter/Tumblr's Soviet Thought Police.

Pathetic, truly pathetic censorship. 1984 style.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

I don't see a problem with the scene. It's in a freaking game, not real life.
Yes, shit happens. Deal with it.

I'm gay, I don't care. It doesn't promote "curing" "the gay".

EDIT:
Apparently she's not even gay. Anyone who watches enough anime or reads manga will recognize that type of character. A girl that loves girls, but isn't gay. Not love as you love your partner but love as you love your family or dearest friends. It's a Japanese thing. Just one of their tropes that the western people misunderstand and represent sexually. Every time some character that like small kids in anime, they get called out as a pedo because the west can't view anything without sex.

Not denying the existence of lolicon and shotacon.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yes. It's a game. So? Games aren't made in a vacuum. They're influenced by the world around them. Usually when someone depicts someone doing something in a game and it isn't intentionally overblown for comedy, say in situations where it leads to people falling in love, it implies disturbing things. Besides, games aren't just toys. They're works of art. Art can and should be examined and criticized. Also, for the record, all capping your words doesn't make your argument any stronger. "Shaming". I'm "Shaming" a Japanese author. I have to say, that sounds a lot like a term that's used to devalue criticism you don't like. Or can I go into the latest Tropes vs Women thread and say everyone who disagrees with Anita is shaming her? In fact, lets look up the definition of shaming.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shaming

I seriously doubt my obscure Escapist forum posts are going to make this guy feel ashamed, I haven't publicly humiliate him, I haven't forced him to do anything, nor have I disgraced him. As such, I don't truly feel that I have "shamed" anyone.

People who criticize things in gaming are comparable to bigots from the Dark Ages? Uh. No. False. Objectively incorrect. This claim has no basis to stand on. Yeah, except that comparison between me and the Vatican doesn't have a leg to stand on considering there's a bit of a difference between people complaining on the internet and all powerful religious authority. There were actual laws being passed back then and entire books being forcibly banned. Not single scenes in games being voluntarily (Yes voluntarily, Nintendo is doing this of its own free will, people who change their games always do it of their own free will, something people always ignore when complaining about this. In fact Nintendo recently said "Making changes is not unusual when we localize games, and we have indeed made changes in these games. When we localize a game we do so in order to make it appropriate for that particular territory. All our choices were made from that point of view.") changed. If the Church wanted you to change something, you had to do it or be excommunicated and maybe killed. If the internet wants you to change something, you're free to ignore them. I mean, if you honestly think this is comparable to the Dark Ages, then I'm grateful for how many freedoms we have that a non-issue like this is considered a serious problem.

Well then, specify next time. It's not my job to clarify the terms you're using. Unmodified, evolution refers to biological evolution. Don't get angry at me when I'm reading what you wrote and not inferring what you wanted it to mean.

Yeah, the "obvious" part is highly debatable. If it was obvious I think I would've seen someone else make the comparison, but you're kind of the first person I've ever seen make the comparison. Surely if it was obvious people would've been jumping to make comparisons before you. Non-mainstream? Non-mainstream art...ok. Fire Emblem Fate is the 14th main game and the 15th game overall in the Fire Emblem franchise. The last game was released on the 3DS, a very highly sold handheld console, and sold 800,000 copies in North America, which is nearly double of what it sold in Japan. This also does not account digital sales. And Fire Emblem characters constantly make appearances in the ridiculously popular Smash Brothers. Fire Emblem is mainstream.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70704/fire-emblem-awakening/

How about you post a few examples? Because your claims don't nail down anything specific. And please make it so that your claims are comparable to the actual dark ages, I'd rather not have an example like this that doesn't really mean anything but people call it censorship because they don't like it. They drag up the old "self-censorship" point, which basically means "The creator did something I didn't like but I refuse to actually accept his decision so I'm blaming society." And please make it connected to this, I'd rather not hear about Australia banning games and there being a connection drawn between that and complaining on the internet.

Also kindly refrain from insulting my intelligence.

 

[lionsprey]

i can see why they did it. from a PR perspective it's the right thing to do. the controversy for removing/changing the scene is nothing compared to what it would have been if it was released and the kind of media that feeds of controversy got hold of it.
personally compared to some of the stuff released in the west i think its pretty tame. sure you can spin it to make it sound REALLY bad with the whole lesbian->drugged->falls in love if you take it out of context and with no understanding of Japanese stereotypes.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

So, you guys talking about how she's just a Japanese character archetype realize that people like Ikuhara use identical archetypes when talking about characters meant to be seen as lesbians, right? The whole intention of these characters is to display something as close to gay sexuality as you can without losing your all-ages slot.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Disappointing, but not surprising given that the usual suspects had already begun to spin the scene as something horribly sinister, mostly so they could profit off the resulting pageviews.

Because there's nothing sinister about slipping drugs into a woman's drink.

There was no "slipping". It is/was a consensual, agreed-upon action by the Protagonist and the character in question.

 

[WindKnight]

Disappointing, but not surprising given that the usual suspects had already begun to spin the scene as something horribly sinister, mostly so they could profit off the resulting pageviews.

Because there's nothing sinister about slipping drugs into a woman's drink.

There was no "slipping". It is/was a consensual, agreed-upon action by the Protagonist and the character in question.

He only told her she'd had the powder AFTER it had affected her. How exactly did she consent to it?

 

[Mr.Mattress]

I... I don't understand why she has any feelings for Cute Girls if she is not a Bisexual or Lesbian. It'd be one thing if she had issues socializing and couldn't be near anyone without doing this, but she's not only straight, but has no problems with being around men... So what in the world makes her have problems being around other women? Not to mention using a drug this way is akin to date-rape and mental manipulation, on top of the feeling that is Gay Conversion Therapy, and that it's an incredibly stupid way to fix this problem. ("Oh, so you drugged me to make men look like women and vice versa? I'm completely cured out of my Bi-Curiosity!")

Personally, I'm glad they removed it, even though I care not for the Fire Emblem Series. This just seemed like a terrible character arc and side-plot, regardless of the Date Rape and Gay Conversion Parallels.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Disappointing, but not surprising given that the usual suspects had already begun to spin the scene as something horribly sinister, mostly so they could profit off the resulting pageviews.

Because there's nothing sinister about slipping drugs into a woman's drink.

There was no "slipping". It is/was a consensual, agreed-upon action by the Protagonist and the character in question.

He only told her she'd had the powder AFTER it had affected her. How exactly did she consent to it?

With her psychic powers of course. From what I've heard it's an essential part of the Japanese "not-lesbian" character archetype.

 

[Oroboros]

I can't believe that people are defending this because she was apparently written to be one of those fanservice 'lesbians' who are lesbians only until they mature and get into a 'real' heterosexual relationship and whose 'gayness' only exists for audience titillation.

It's a screwed up troupe. Utterly bizarre that so many people think that pointing out that it's actually an example of "Fake fanservice lesbian that ends up in a 'real' (heterosexual) romance" instead of a "curing the gays with drugs and therapy".

One is screwed up because it treats gayness as a phase that mature people 'grow out of'.

The other is screwed up because it treats gayness as a disorder that can (and should) be cured.

Both are screwed up. So pointing out that it's it's not gay conversion therapy because she's not a 'real' lesbian isn't making the situation suddenly not screwed up. It just adds another layer of screwed up to the whole thing.

 

[EternallyBored]

I... I don't understand why she has any feelings for Cute Girls if she is not a Bisexual or Lesbian. It'd be one thing if she had issues socializing and couldn't be near anyone without doing this, but she's not only straight, but has no problems with being around men... So what in the world makes her have problems being around other women? Not to mention using a drug this way is akin to date-rape and mental manipulation, on top of the feeling that is Gay Conversion Therapy, and that it's an incredibly stupid way to fix this problem. ("Oh, so you drugged me to make men look like women and vice versa? I'm completely cured out of my Bi-Curiosity!")

Personally, I'm glad they removed it, even though I care not for the Fire Emblem Series. This just seemed like a terrible character arc and side-plot, regardless of the Date Rape and Gay Conversion Parallels.

She gets it from her father apparently who is a character from FE:Awakening, which admittedly makes no goddamn sense, since being a womanizer isn't genetic, and he even gets over most of his womanizing in the DLC for Awakening. Reading the translations is a mess, even ignoring the potion thing her infatuation with females is basically just poorly explained setup for her to swoon over girls in comedic scenes while still being straight.

I went to the wiki to see if I was misremembering anything, and that just confused me more, because the wiki states that she's apparently jealous of her father because she thinks her mother is so cute that she's jealous of her father for marrying her. I mean, it's all based on fan translations, so take the English wiki with a grain of salt, but holy fuck.

The whole controversy doesn't bother me much, because until Square-Enix get off their asses and make another FF: Tactics game, or someone decides to make a proper Valkyria Chronicles sequel, Fire Emblem is all I've got to look forward to when it comes to Japanese turn based strategy games. I can bear some of the new dumb anime tropes Awakening introduced if it means that we can get the series reliably brought to the American market in the future. Between this and Xcom 2, I'm already excited for the first half of 2016 and a tiny controversy like this ain't gonna derail my hype train.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

the fact that a conversation is one of hundreds does not make one individual scene. and considering the cast of japanese games in particular tend to contain as many neutrally portrayed homosexuals as a lake contains sea turtles it's hard not to look at scenes like this and see an underlying sense of all the "normal" people being invited to laugh at the people who are different from themselves. and frankly if the japanese wish to be a part of the international society in the modern era they had better realize that exclusionary values are unacceptable in an inclusive association.

 

[Ukomba]

It actually sounds kind of cute. Doesn't it go to the whole, love a person for who they are not what they are thing? Seems overly sensitive.

I'm wondering what the reaction would be if it were a straight character this happened to.

I could appreciate that, but considering that a drug that altered someone's perspective and was given to her without her consent or knowledge was involved...that's just creepy on so many levels.

A magic potion, but ya that's only where the initial attraction came from. The attraction persisting after the drug wears off changes things a bit, also the purpose of the drug not being to mess with her in that way but to help her with a confidence issue. Sure done without her permission can appear a bit rapey, but if she KNEW that she were taking it, it wouldn't have worked as intended since she would know that boy is really a girl and still have the issue talking to them. I haven't played it, but I'm betting it was meant to be humorous. Feels like the world has lost it's sense of humor and is becoming really puritan.

 

[Kaimax]

the fact that a conversation is one of hundreds does not make one individual scene.

That's the problem with people finding it "offensive", they only focus on one bad scene, while ignoring 9 other Romantic Support conversations that portrays Soleil having no problem having a relationship with other Male Characters.

 

[Josh123914]

I can already hear people crying censorship but I don't think its the case. I don't think the support is altered because it was offensive. Its just as likely the support is altered because it just doesn't work.

While its fun to imagine Corrin as some psychopath who calls soldiers to his room to forcefully touch them and drug girls he fancies, its not how the game portrays it. Corrin is always an amazing guy and what he did in that support wasn't really depicted as all that wrong, at least not more so then ''lol I made a mistake''

Whoever wrote the support clearly didn't think what Corrin did was messed up. I think the backlash must have come as a surprise to the writer. The scene shouldn't be altered because its tasteless but because it just doesn't work when an established great guy starts acting like a scumbag and gets himself a wife because of it.

Also magical powder to ensure you see everyone's gender swapped is just ridiculous. I'm not sure how someone wrote that down and thought it was good writing.

I don't think morality factors into Fire Emblem.

Go on their fan forums. They have a bigger eugenics focus than the Crusader Kings community, which is saying something.

I see this as yet another sad example of Fire emblem Fates increased focus on fanservice being to the detriment of the game. Its sadly a bit of a trend in Fates

Why is Solei the way she is? Because ''yuri'' is popular in Japan. As a result we have the rather tasteless result of a girl who gushes over other girls until she ''grows up'' and finds the right man. She also has the exact opposite, a girl who gushes over Yahoi. As things are now neither characters seem to have anything beyond that.

The skinshipping is also a form of fanservice which got Fire emblem an embarrassing feature with no place in the series. The founder of a genre with at least 13 quality titles under its belt should not go around with so little dignity.

And speaking of little dignity: You can also marry your siblings! There is an explanation which justifies it but I find that just makes matters worse. It does not come off like that you can marry your siblings thanks to that justification but more like that we got the justification precisely because it would allow you to marry your sibling. Gross and utterly cowardly to boot.

The second gen is also fanservice brought back for the people who like it. The problem is that its got no place in the story. Thanks to that the explanation for fully adult or teenage kid is hilariously bad and has got to involve pedophilia in order to get certain children.

I don't get how IS and Nintendo decided to look at the fire emblem series and got to the conclusion that they did not have confidence in Fire Emblem. The series was always at least respected and Awakening turned it mainstream. Why the desperate pandering? It really strikes me as if the Fire Emblem team got some kind of panic attack.

In defense of Soleil, her dad was also quite the wannabe sexual deviant. By the standards the series has set in terms of writing her character makes perfect sense. I mean if she doesn't stop fawning over lolis she may die in combat.

Also I tried to marry siblings. Doesn't work. They just say that they're best friends or something equally disappointing. You can marry 1st cousins though.

Also, I thought Yuri was popular because Japan's a really sexually repressed society, and girls being a bit gay in while young was a better alternative to teenage pregnancy.

I can't believe that people are defending this because she was apparently written to be one of those fanservice 'lesbians' who are lesbians only until they mature and get into a 'real' heterosexual relationship and whose 'gayness' only exists for audience titillation.

It's a screwed up troupe. Utterly bizarre that so many people think that pointing out that it's actually an example of "Fake fanservice lesbian that ends up in a 'real' (heterosexual) romance" instead of a "curing the gays with drugs and therapy".

One is screwed up because it treats gayness as a phase that mature people 'grow out of'.

The other is screwed up because it treats gayness as a disorder that can (and should) be cured.

Both are screwed up. So pointing out that it's it's not gay conversion therapy because she's not a 'real' lesbian isn't making the situation suddenly not screwed up. It just adds another layer of screwed up to the whole thing.

Because its a real legitimate concept in Japan. Not even exaggerating.

In my view they should've just adjusted the convo and not dropped it. Have her accidentally consume the drug or something. What happens when they change stuff like this is that the translators can't reconcile a change like this with the character's actions in the rest of the game, and inevitably people that are playing the game ask me why the fuck there are anachronisms.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

I think potions actually fit the definition of a drug. I suppose that's fair but it's STILL pretty creepy. Like those stories that have people falling in love with their kidnappers. Sure the attraction might be for real but the place where it started...*Shudders*. Also judging from the translations she was very much unaware of the potion.

And if this moment was supposed to be funny...well...it isn't. Especially considering what we can gather about where this problem comes from its looking to be a hell of a train wreck of writing.

She gets it from her father apparently who is a character from FE:Awakening, which admittedly makes no goddamn sense, since being a womanizer isn't genetic, and he even gets over most of his womanizing in the DLC for Awakening. Reading the translations is a mess, even ignoring the potion thing her infatuation with females is basically just poorly explained setup for her to swoon over girls in comedic scenes while still being straight.

I went to the wiki to see if I was misremembering anything, and that just confused me more, because the wiki states that she's apparently jealous of her father because she thinks her mother is so cute that she's jealous of her father for marrying her. I mean, it's all based on fan translations, so take the English wiki with a grain of salt, but holy fuck.

Then again I thought the implications that the main character in the last game probably got raped by and most certainly stalked by Dark Mage Tharja to be horrifically unfunny, nor did I really like the bit where a girl showed she was jealous by shooting arrows at the person she loves. If that makes me prudish, I'm ok with that.

 

[Erttheking]

the fact that a conversation is one of hundreds does not make one individual scene.

That's the problem with people finding it "offensive", they only focus on one bad scene, while ignoring 9 other Romantic Support conversations that portrays Soleil having no problem having a relationship with other Male Characters.

I don't think that's the problem here. Most people seem more hung up on the fact that she got drugged and the fact that her attraction to women is very similar to a rather disturbing trend in Japan where girls flirt with other girls when they're young. So that they can move on to "Real" relationships with men.

When they're not just hung up on the entire thing just being dumb as hell that is.