Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases
- Thread starter Lizzy Finnegan
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While I can see how this can be a problem for some people, it can also be a fantasy for others. I mean this plays in with fantastical mythology where gender swapping happens for fun. If anything, it kinda reminded me of something straight out of Midsummer Night's Dream. This is poor journalism giving the impression that a girl got date-raped and converted straight; this is pure sensationalism and completely false.
Pretty much, to localize, they need to simply get rid of the buzzword 'slipped in your drink' and replace it with 'cast a spell'. On a final note, I just want to say that, although she obviously likes girls, no where in the text does it say that she doesn't like men. Remember what the B in LGBT stands for, please.
Pretty much, to localize, they need to simply get rid of the buzzword 'slipped in your drink' and replace it with 'cast a spell'. On a final note, I just want to say that, although she obviously likes girls, no where in the text does it say that she doesn't like men. Remember what the B in LGBT stands for, please.
I can see why you'd see it as creepy even if I don't. Still, I wouldn't say any media with Stockholm syndrome in it should be censored.erttheking said:
I can't speak to the writing, and it appears I never will since I won't get to play it in English. I simply wish, in cases like this, there were uncensored versions available so I could make up my own mind, rather than have someone tell me what to think.
Greeeeeeat, now the game I've been looking forward to the most for the past year can have all it's discussions hijacked by the 'IT MUST NOT BE TAINTED!' crowd, defending a scene that's probably far less funny/original then it sounds, and the 'IT MIGHT UPSET SOMEONE!' crowd who don't even care to learn the context of a scene in the first place...
Yipee.
OT: If the character knows she's been 'potioned up' then why does she pursue the MC? It's not her liking him, it's the potion, or at least the after effects. If I were her I'd be more freaked than turned on.
What if it's like Viagra, 'If the effects of the potion linger for more than 3 hours seek medical attention immediately.'
Yipee.
OT: If the character knows she's been 'potioned up' then why does she pursue the MC? It's not her liking him, it's the potion, or at least the after effects. If I were her I'd be more freaked than turned on.
What if it's like Viagra, 'If the effects of the potion linger for more than 3 hours seek medical attention immediately.'
It's not censorship. It's localization. When a creator willingly makes a change to their work, it isn't censorship. Nintendo even said in a recent announcement that they do stuff like this all the time.Ukomba said:
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/01/21/nintendo-responds-changes-fire-emblem-fates-western-localization/
... Why does this potion exist? No, seriously, magic and owlbears, a wizard did it, sure. But who would come up with this potion? And why would it be apparently popular enough for someone else to know about it in the age before Google? Are there a lot of "totally not lesbians" that need to be fixed? And which would apparently lose effectiveness if the person it was being used on was aware of it?
It just switches what gender you see a person as.
Besides bad writing, why would such a thing exist at all?
It just switches what gender you see a person as.
Besides bad writing, why would such a thing exist at all?
Right, so, to you, self censorship isn't a thing. I know there are people who think like that and I don't think there's anything I can do to help you.erttheking said:
What are you're thoughts on the Steven Universe European "Localization" then? e_e
So, if I want an English version, that matches the original version, what am I asking for exactly if not a non-censored version?
What, precisely, do you think localizers do? What do you think makes a good localization?Ukomba said:
I don't know about Ert, but I just call something like that the Japanese version, or the import version, if I went around calling the Japanese language version of FF 6 the "non-censored version" most people would look at me like I was an idiot, despite the fact that there were numerous dialogue changes or even additions in the American translation of FF 6. Nobody calls a localization the "non-censored version" even if the localization seems stupid or unnecessary, Japanese and American companies have been doing this with importing or exporting their intellectual property for decades.Ukomba said:
As for the Steven universe thing, you can apply the word self-censorship, and I'll even agree it's a dumb change, but it's not some grievous violation of the properties artistic integrity or basic rights to free speech, or even something I'm going to give more than a glancing, "well that seems like a silly thing to do" before moving on with my day. You can apply the concept of self-censorship, but it's not the kind of censorship Most people are going to fight against beyond some token gesture like an Internet petition.
I don't consider self censorship to be something on the same level as enforced censorship, considering developers, writers and other content creators commonly hear criticism and change their work, thinking it'll make it better. I've been there plenty of times. Also people have been throwing around the terms censorship and self censorship every time a developer makes a decision that they just don't like that I've been growing numb to the term. I also wonder if people who commonly complain about this (Not you) respect the developers ability to make decisions regarding their own work. Any change they make is "censorship" and no one ever considers the possibility of the developer agreeing with the change.Ukomba said:
Oh, I don't like it at all. It's well within their rights to do it, but I don't like it. See that's the thing. You can come out and say that you don't like the change, fair enough. I just don't consider it censorship.
More an un-altered version than anything else. Which isn't something you're going to have a lot of luck with, especially considering the previous Fire Emblem games changed a lot of things. Including removing (Well they tried to anyway, they didn't do a very job) Lucina being able to marry her cousin in Fire Emblem Awakening and just in general changing their names. A game that matches the original version? They don't really exist for Japanese games in general. There are always changes made when Japanese games are exported. Sometimes it actually makes the game better. In the Japanese version of Final Fantasy 6, Kefka was a very unpopular villain, apparently because he just acted like an idiot. In the translated version, he became the psychopath that eventually made him one of the most popular villains in Final Fantasy history. There is no un-altered version of the game for the original Kefka. Because developers just don't make these things.
That a really subjective question. I'm sure some people want the localizer to change the game to be more culturally similar to the target country, like rice balls becoming donuts. Others probably want them to cater to the local morality, taking out specific religious iconography, or altering the story entirely so characters don't die (I'm looking at you voltron).Revnak said:
I personally think a good localizer would make a game as close as possible to the original, just in the language of the target country.
(I'm not sure where Robotech would fit in here. I'm not sure how they even managed to edit together three separate anime.)
So I don't mean to step on any toes with this, I would just like to get people's opinion on this (as civil as possible, hopefully):
Let's say that this scene actually was a straight "gay conversion" scene. As in, that was the intent and everything. The question I pose is... "so what?" From the way I see people carry on about controversies like this one, it always seems to be a lot of people talking about how X thing offends them, and X thing should be changed because X thing is a bad thing in real life. But why is it an issue?
If a writer wrote a scene in a game, book, movie, etc. that involved a violent rape, for instance, it was intended to be part of the story. Even if this scene is misinterpreted by the audience, the scene itself was still put there intentionally by the writer. Even though this thing is a terrible event, it still happened in the writer's created world. What right do we have to tell a writer that they need to change their work? I feel like if there is content that offends us, we should just avoid it, rather than trying to change it. Yes, rape is a horrific thing in real life. This "gay conversion therapy" idea is rather bad in real life, as well. But you know what else is bad? Murder. Yet, we never seem to be offended by it and rally to have it changed.
Let's say that this scene actually was a straight "gay conversion" scene. As in, that was the intent and everything. The question I pose is... "so what?" From the way I see people carry on about controversies like this one, it always seems to be a lot of people talking about how X thing offends them, and X thing should be changed because X thing is a bad thing in real life. But why is it an issue?
If a writer wrote a scene in a game, book, movie, etc. that involved a violent rape, for instance, it was intended to be part of the story. Even if this scene is misinterpreted by the audience, the scene itself was still put there intentionally by the writer. Even though this thing is a terrible event, it still happened in the writer's created world. What right do we have to tell a writer that they need to change their work? I feel like if there is content that offends us, we should just avoid it, rather than trying to change it. Yes, rape is a horrific thing in real life. This "gay conversion therapy" idea is rather bad in real life, as well. But you know what else is bad? Murder. Yet, we never seem to be offended by it and rally to have it changed.
In Radiant Dawn a character named Kyza was incredibly flamboyant in the Japanese version, the localization team decided to get rid of this all together and rewrote him. In Awakening Henry faced rather jarring changes, some aspects of his character are similar, but he goes from a dark and odd character to one who laughs at anything twisted. There have been changes in the past, some are to get rid of offensive stereotypes and others are new interpretations of a character.Fire Emblem games have always had hard work put into localization, the teams in charge are going to make changes so that these products shine when they reach us. If you want to cry censorship at this than go ahead, but just know that the people in charge of adapting these games to English have worked hard to make quality work and to make the bizarre stuff easier to digest.
So context for all this aside, this seems like a very "japanese creator" thing to do nowadays. Stripping a female character (and even main male protagonists, to be fair) of any personality, individuality, and... humanity, just so they can make them into wholesome waifu material for the male fans to slather over like candy. Shit like this is something a straight-up villain would do; like a total bastard would even think about doing.
I guess if the scene was consensual (and she WANTED to be cured) then it might warrant some further discussion for me, but after going over some of the shit I read and watch, "curing" a girl of her lesbianism or gender-queerity, or whatever it's called, seems exactly like something that would be in their wheelhouse.
I guess if the scene was consensual (and she WANTED to be cured) then it might warrant some further discussion for me, but after going over some of the shit I read and watch, "curing" a girl of her lesbianism or gender-queerity, or whatever it's called, seems exactly like something that would be in their wheelhouse.
Sure, I can see that perspective. A couple of issues I have with it: indeed, people have the right the complain, but they certainly have no entitlement to actually see a change. In the end, it is ultimately the artist's right to put in anything they want. Personally, I feel like it would be a lot less trouble for everyone if people simply didn't support the things that offended them, via not buying them for example.LifeCharacter said:
Regarding the stereotypes, I personally don't see that as a big issue, either. If a person that plays this game (or watching something with a stereotype, etc.) and applies a stereotype used on a fictional character to a person or persons in real life, that is entirely the fault of that person. In no way is it the fault of the medium. Art and artists shouldn't be restricted (or downright persecuted in some cases) because of some individuals that have trouble distinguishing fiction from reality.
Edit: Perhaps I should just stop this discussion. I'm not meaning to come across as confrontational at all; I'm just interested in the "other perspective," but I can see how people might take issue with what I'm saying.
Right, but that also applies in reverse.dirtbiker326 said:
People have the right to complain, but they certainly have no entitlement to not see a change. In the end, it is ultimately the artist's (or more accurately the license holder, since we're talking about intellectual property which is produced for commercial purposes) right to alter or remove anything they want.
Personally, I feel it would be a lot less trouble if people simply didn't support changes that offended them, via not buying the product for example.
What's utterly weird is that you haven't connected the fact that people won't buy something which offends them with the fact that it gets changed. If enough people don't buy something, then it isn't worth selling, and the only way to make it worth selling is to change it. Clearly, Nintendo believes the change was commercially worthwhile. What right do you have to demand they accommodate you?
If a white man named David Bowie can take all of the cocaine from the seventies and eighties and shovel it up his nose while fucking his way from straight to bisexual all the way through to full blown homosexuality, before then making a slow u-turn with his dick and fucking his way back through the various different sexual preferences to die seemingly happily married to a woman in his late sixties.
If he can do all that in real life starting around forty-six years ago, then I think some fictional weeaboo lipstick lesbian fap fodder can dose up on a little hallucinogenic and discover just how much she likes penis.
C'mon people. It's 2016.
If he can do all that in real life starting around forty-six years ago, then I think some fictional weeaboo lipstick lesbian fap fodder can dose up on a little hallucinogenic and discover just how much she likes penis.
C'mon people. It's 2016.
Soleil, the girl that likes girls, doesn't know she's getting drugged. Consent is a large part of the problem people have with the scenario. Honestly, it's a pretty ugly situation, brainwashing someone like that. Violating their mind to the core.Paradoxrifts said:
It's not a trip of self discovery. No long, winding road to find happiness likened to your vision of Bowie's life. She's been forced by someone else to see the world differently. It'd be like if you were into gender A, and someone drugs you to see Gender 1 as gender A, you fall in love with someone that seems gender A, but is really Gender 1.
The story has her converted from liking gender A to gender 1 like it's some disease which I doubt anyone appreciates. I doubt you'd appreciate someone violating your brain to change you that way.