Controversial Fire Emblem: Fates Scene Dropped From Western Releases

[Scarim Coral]

Removed/ dropped seen abit over the top? Yes I did read that it is unknown if they will just reedit or complete removed it competely (only get to A convesation on those two?) but I just hoping they just changed the dialogue for the release outside of Japan. I mean that what they did with Nowii commenting Tharji being "bouncy" to "silky hair" in that beach dlc and aswell altering that image of her aswell.

 

[SquallTheBlade]

Soleil, the girl that likes girls, doesn't know she's getting drugged. Consent is a large part of the problem people have with the scenario. Honestly, it's a pretty ugly situation, brainwashing someone like that. Violating their mind to the core.

I STILL don't get this argument. I mean so what? If fiction has nazis in it, does it mean it supports nazis? No? Then why is this any different?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Soleil is not fucking gay. She just likes cute girls in a platonic manner. At no point in the game is it ever confirmed that she's actually homosexual. She may be bisexual at most. In fact, they've completely misrepresented her character here entirely, since she really just likes to seem like a cool and smooth kind of person, but being around cute girls makes her weak in the knees. In some cases she even faints. Which is especially troubling for someone who sometimes fights girls on a battlefield. The powder is used as a sort of exposure therapy by her commander who is understandably worried about her possibly being killed.

Also, during the scene, she is entirely aware of what's happening and in full control of herself and her senses. Kamui does put the powder in her drink without asking, which is by no means a good thing admittedly and pretty inexcusable, but he immediately tells her that the woman she's talking to is him, and explains to her what the powder did and why he did it. This article and others try way too hard to make this seem like some kind of date-rape scenario.

Here's an actual translation of this so called "controversial scene": http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa

I don't know who the hell they intend to placate by changing these kinds of scenes (actually, I do) but I doubt many of those people are actually interested in buying this kind of game in the first place. Thank fuck I learned to read Japanese so I don't have to give my money to these people anymore. I'd rather the money I spend support the artist's original vision than some god damn nanny that thinks she knows what's best for me.

Nailed it on the first page.

And, yet, what followed is still the same, tired, meandering mess of pedantic bullshit from the usual suspects.

Color me surprised.

With that said, this is pretty normal Japanese fare. Glad to see it, and its like, being blown out of proportion and blatantly misrepresented by the tumblr among us and the media, once again, to slake their perpetual thirst for outrage.

Steady on, folks. I'm sure this will go a long way toward assuaging that guilt.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

So I don't mean to step on any toes with this, I would just like to get people's opinion on this (as civil as possible, hopefully):

Let's say that this scene actually was a straight "gay conversion" scene. As in, that was the intent and everything. The question I pose is... "so what?" From the way I see people carry on about controversies like this one, it always seems to be a lot of people talking about how X thing offends them, and X thing should be changed because X thing is a bad thing in real life. But why is it an issue?

If a writer wrote a scene in a game, book, movie, etc. that involved a violent rape, for instance, it was intended to be part of the story. Even if this scene is misinterpreted by the audience, the scene itself was still put there intentionally by the writer. Even though this thing is a terrible event, it still happened in the writer's created world. What right do we have to tell a writer that they need to change their work? I feel like if there is content that offends us, we should just avoid it, rather than trying to change it. Yes, rape is a horrific thing in real life. This "gay conversion therapy" idea is rather bad in real life, as well. But you know what else is bad? Murder. Yet, we never seem to be offended by it and rally to have it changed.

The issue is that only good things are allowed to happen in stories. Bad stories are a no-no. We can't have something bad happen to people that don't exist because some people on the real world will get offended in their place.

It's a complete nonissue. But obviously the fighter for the greater good are a tiny bit delusional (maybe someone slipped something in their drink?) and they see fiction as reality while seeing reality as fiction, so this is a huge blow to human rights and we all need to get up in arms and burn Nintendo down for even attempting to use an overused and boring Japanese cliche non-lesbian lesbian character. Because everyone who likes kids even in a non-sexual way is a pedo and wants to fuck them. That women you see in the shop that likes her child? She's pedo!
Because that's how it is, filthy Elevens!

I'm gay, I don't see a single issue even if it was a straight, completely intended gay-conversion scene. Would I find it disturbing? Yes, but in universe. It wouldn't leave the universe. It's not promoting it. It's a shitty thing to happen, but that's how story telling works. You can't write just butterflies and flowers. Sometimes there are inhuman things by our standards. I don't see how people can get up in arms against something like this, but the murdering that happens in the game is completely okay. But now I can wait because in 20 minutes I will have several messages of people explaining to me how virtual murder is different from virtual homophobia.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Soleil, the girl that likes girls, doesn't know she's getting drugged. Consent is a large part of the problem people have with the scenario. Honestly, it's a pretty ugly situation, brainwashing someone like that. Violating their mind to the core.

There you go directly implying that the magical macguffin that her drink was spiked with did anything more then what the game tells us it did. All we are told that the magical powder does is, "The people who take this powder, amazingly, see people outside of themselves as the opposite gender."

That's it. That is all the game tells us it does. Nothing else.

If you believe that the drug is doing anything other then what is stated in the game then I'm sorry to inform you that whatever the fuck that is it is only happening in your head according to all available evidence. Your reaction to this says a great deal more about you and what sort of conclusions you immediately reach for when presented with limited evidence in these matters then it does about anything else.

Here's a link [http://nichegamer.com/2015/07/the-story-behind-fire-emblem-fates-completely-falsified-gay-conversion/] to the original translation. Unfortunately, I do not know Japanese. I couldn't tell you just how accurate the Japanese translation is, but I have no reason to disbelieve the accuracy of their translation. I encourage everyone to read the translation for themselves and reach their own opinion.

It's not a trip of self discovery. No long, winding road to find happiness likened to your vision of Bowie's life. She's been forced by someone else to see the world differently. It'd be like if you were into gender A, and someone drugs you to see Gender 1 as gender A, you fall in love with someone that seems gender A, but is really Gender 1.
The story has her converted from liking gender A to gender 1 like it's some disease which I doubt anyone appreciates. I doubt you'd appreciate someone violating your brain to change you that way.

*Swallows his daily lithium tablets* No. Of course not, I wouldn't know anything about changing my brain chemistry with medicine.

If I just happened to fall into the gay one day and immediately thereafter discovered a reciprocal romantic and sexual attraction to another man I would go with it. Love like that is love, wherever you happen to uncover it. If that guy was willing to wear a dress and talk like a woman because he believed that it might ease the transition for me, that'd be kinda sweet. So that's my hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question. It doesn't matter. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlIhraqL7o]

I also just love how you willing you are to throw bisexual representation right under the bus, as if when a fictional character mentions that they like cute members of the same sex it automatically discounts any and all possibility of them later developing an attraction to a member of the opposite sex. While I bet you would have absolutely no qualms at all about praising a formerly heterosexual character discovering their homosexuality, because nothing is quite so hypocritical as saying that there should be one set of rules for me and a more restrictive set of rules for everyone else.

So apart from the initial gender bending magical trickery, which in upon itself is a ridiculously common reoccurring theme in Japanese popular media, at no point is she ever coerced into doing anything she doesn't herself make a choice to go along with. It is also never stated that she ever loses her interest in other women. It is in fact strongly implied by how she warns Kamui off from pursuing homosexual liaisons of his own that she herself retains an attraction to 'cute girls'. All that is stated to have occured is that she has developed a romantic and sexual attraction to Kamui that is strong enough that she chooses to disregard other options and accept his marriage proposal.

It is also never explored whether or not Kamui ever stops talking in falsetto.

 

[Linghu]

I'm one of those purists that hate every change made to the original work in any way be it with books movies & games.

Now about this game do the creators support drugging girls? I'm guessing no.
Will the game make u more likely to spike drinks? I'm guessing no.

So why the f*** are we having these debates.

Leave the game as it is, and if people don't like the game don't play it.

Don't pretend to be some enlightened person on a life mission trying to save people from themselves or IMO a twat and try to dictate which content people should play and which not.

Not even if in your opinion it would make the game better.

 

[spartandude]

I'm one of those purists that hate every change made to the original work in any way be it with books movies & games.

If you're a fan of Star Wars you should read "The Star Wars", a comic book adaptation of Lucas' original script before he was told to change it into the movie we got. I promise you that your purist philosophy will change.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

If a white man named David Bowie can take all of the cocaine from the seventies and eighties and shovel it up his nose while fucking his way from straight to bisexual all the way through to full blown homosexuality, before then making a slow u-turn with his dick and fucking his way back through the various different sexual preferences to die seemingly happily married to a woman in his late sixties.

Uh, pretty sure thats not how sexual orientation works. Nor how bisexuality works eiher.

Shouldn't be surprised though, given how people are still trying to say that Soleil is totally not a lesbian at all. Nope, completely straight. In fact, all straight girls swoon over attractive women. I'm sure all the straight guys in this thread will similarly attest to wanking to pictures of Tom Hiddleston and Chris Evans, right?

Yes. Because clearly MarsAtlas of the Escapist forums knew the sexuality of David Bowie's better then David knew it himself. He is after all the definitive authority on the subject.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

As much as I don't like it, I understand what they're doing. The west isn't very stable right now when it comes to this type of crap and no matter what they do they'll catch flack for it. I'm just glad I get to play the game. The gameplay elements are still the same and the rest of the interactions are still there. I don't like the idea of anything being censored just to appease anyone, even myself, but I can't fault someone for making the decision to do so. I sure as hell wouldn't, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes. Because clearly MarsAtlas of the Escapist forums knew the sexuality of David Bowie's better then David knew it himself. He is after all the definitive authority on the subject.

MarsAtlas doesn't need to know Bowie's sexuality better than Bowie. Just human sexuality better than you. Given the comments you've both made as to human sexuality, that would seem to be the case. David's not the one on here making claims about his sexuality. You are.

 

[Erttheking]

Soleil, the girl that likes girls, doesn't know she's getting drugged. Consent is a large part of the problem people have with the scenario. Honestly, it's a pretty ugly situation, brainwashing someone like that. Violating their mind to the core.

I STILL don't get this argument. I mean so what? If fiction has nazis in it, does it mean it supports nazis? No? Then why is this any different?

Yeah except when fiction depicts the Nazis doing something, they usually have the decency to point out that it's a bad thing. Not getting that here.

 

[xaszatm]

If a white man named David Bowie can take all of the cocaine from the seventies and eighties and shovel it up his nose while fucking his way from straight to bisexual all the way through to full blown homosexuality, before then making a slow u-turn with his dick and fucking his way back through the various different sexual preferences to die seemingly happily married to a woman in his late sixties.

Uh, pretty sure thats not how sexual orientation works. Nor how bisexuality works eiher.

Shouldn't be surprised though, given how people are still trying to say that Soleil is totally not a lesbian at all. Nope, completely straight. In fact, all straight girls swoon over attractive women. I'm sure all the straight guys in this thread will similarly attest to wanking to pictures of Tom Hiddleston and Chris Evans, right?

Wouldn't Soleil be bisexual, not lesbian? I mean, controversial S-support with Corrin aside, she does have much better conversations with her other marriage partners. I mean, they're not great by any means but they exist.

Actually, that's the weird thing about Soleil, her support conversations with other females aren't really love-related. I say this not as proof of "Soleil is straight" but rather because a whole bunch of other same-sex support conversations ARE really context heavy yet lack the final marriage support. I mean, Female Corrin and Ana's supports eventually conclude that Ana is different from the other Ana's becuase of her loving bond with Female Corrin yet...no S-Rank. Soleil's support conversations are just kind of...there. I don't think the writers actually knew what they wanted from Soleil.

 

[Erttheking]

As much as I don't like it, I understand what they're doing. The west isn't very stable right now when it comes to this type of crap and no matter what they do they'll catch flack for it. I'm just glad I get to play the game. The gameplay elements are still the same and the rest of the interactions are still there. I don't like the idea of anything being censored just to appease anyone, even myself, but I can't fault someone for making the decision to do so. I sure as hell wouldn't, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I don't think I want to live in a country where we're "stable" for someone falling in love in a manner that involves being drugged without their consent and it being portrayed as a happy and healthy relationship without a bit of irony.

And I'll say it as many times as I have to. Nintendo willingly made this change of their own free will. They do stuff like this all the time. Call it censorship as much as want, it isn't. Unless you're going to claim that self-censorship occurs every time a writer makes a change to their work as a result of criticism, in which case half of the writers in the world self-censor themselves all of the time.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

As much as I don't like it, I understand what they're doing. The west isn't very stable right now when it comes to this type of crap and no matter what they do they'll catch flack for it. I'm just glad I get to play the game. The gameplay elements are still the same and the rest of the interactions are still there. I don't like the idea of anything being censored just to appease anyone, even myself, but I can't fault someone for making the decision to do so. I sure as hell wouldn't, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I don't think I want to live in a country where we're "stable" for someone falling in love in a manner that involves being drugged without their consent and it being portrayed as a happy and healthy relationship without a bit of irony.

And I'll say it as many times as I have to. Nintendo willingly made this change of their own free will. They do stuff like this all the time. Call it censorship as much as want, it isn't. Unless you're going to claim that self-censorship occurs every time a writer makes a change to their work as a result of criticism, in which case half of the writers in the world self-censor themselves all of the time.

Yeah, whatever. I don't particularly care to have a conversation about censorship. All I know is I prefer to get a product the way it was intended to be. Not edited because people are sensitive. To make the product better? Sure. But not because it'll make people cry the way it is. One of those moments I wish I could read Japanese and just cut out the middle man.

As for the cut content, why should I care? I don't even know exactly what the cut content is. One second I'm told a gay character is drugged and made hetero. The next I'm told she's a playboy that faints in front of cute girls and the player helps her keep her composure. An official translation would help, but apparently that'll never happen. Since I don't know what is being cut, I'm not going to get all uppity about it. Apparently this whole thing started because of a translation on 4chan or tumblr. Not exactly sources I trust.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

I'm one of those purists that hate every change made to the original work in any way be it with books movies & games.

If you're a fan of Star Wars you should read "The Star Wars", a comic book adaptation of Lucas' original script before he was told to change it into the movie we got. I promise you that your purist philosophy will change.

There is a difference between the author changing something because he believes it will improve his work and an author removing parts of their work because of fear of some thin skinned loud bunch of assholes who can't handle when fiction isn't all sunshine and rainbows and are willing to do drag your name through the mud with fake interpretations of what actually happens in your work in order to hurt your bottom line.

One of them implies the author is willingly doing something because he genuinely believes he will improve his work. The other is forced self-censoring.