Corvid-19 and its impact (name edit)

[Agema]

You don't remember because you probably weren't in Mexico; but lots of people there skipped work back then, and for a couple of weeks the public transport and the streets were eerily emptier than usual.

Skipping work in terms of your local workplace stinks of any old excuse to dodge work unless there's a regional outbreak. Skipping major international conferences is a whole different ballgame: those have a massively higher risk of exposure not just because of the wide number of people from many countries at the conference, but also from having to go through airports which are probably even more risky (says me, having been through Heathrow twice in the last fortnight.)

* * *

I find it fascinating to wonder how governments are assessing this. They know travel is vital to the economy, and shutting some or all of it down at any level is economically painful. They also know that the virus means healthcare costs, fatalities, and economic costs.

I absolutely bet you they are frantically doing calculations to assess what the various human and economic costs of different scenarios are plus the likely probabilities in order to determine their response. I'm also willing to bet you that it's the money that's guiding their actions, not the lives.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

How much of this with the video game companies is being overly cautious, and how much of it is legitimate dread of contact?
Maybe this is just how Americans deal with being sick, but I don't remember too many people skipping work over N1H1.

You don't remember because you probably weren't in Mexico; but lots of people there skipped work back then, and for a couple of weeks the public transport and the streets were eerily emptier than usual.

I saw the zombie virus has spread to Iran and they don't know how. I wonder if this is a Malthusian event

Same in Italy. The authorities there are scratching their heads off, trying to find their patient zero.

So here's a thought, and I say this 'cause Im currently fighting a cold and I have an overactive imagination. Is it possible for the cornovirus to spread via infected products? Like those shirts we get at walmart that say 'Made in China' if the factory itself was infected, could the virus survive long enough to spread outside of the nation, without any direct 1-1 contact between people?

 

[SupahEwok]

How much of this with the video game companies is being overly cautious, and how much of it is legitimate dread of contact?
Maybe this is just how Americans deal with being sick, but I don't remember too many people skipping work over N1H1.

You don't remember because you probably weren't in Mexico; but lots of people there skipped work back then, and for a couple of weeks the public transport and the streets were eerily emptier than usual.

I saw the zombie virus has spread to Iran and they don't know how. I wonder if this is a Malthusian event

Same in Italy. The authorities there are scratching their heads off, trying to find their patient zero.

So here's a thought, and I say this 'cause Im currently fighting a cold and I have an overactive imagination. Is it possible for the cornovirus to spread via infected products? Like those shirts we get at walmart that say 'Made in China' if the factory itself was infected, could the virus survive long enough to spread outside of the nation, without any direct 1-1 contact between people?

Probably nobody knows yet how long the virus can survive outside of a host.

 

[Agema]

Probably nobody knows yet how long the virus can survive outside of a host.

Human coronaviruses tend to last over a week at room temperature outside the body, less at ~30oC. However, there is a lot of variation depending on factors like the surface material, humidity, strain of virus so on. Some coronaviruses only last a few hours - SARS was one of these. COVID19 is as yet unknown.

Hypochlorite bleach, hydrogen peroxide, and ethanol should all be effective, readily accessible killing agents. Handwashing with basic soap detergents should hugely reduce risk.

 

[CaitSeith]

Is it possible for the cornovirus to spread via infected products? Like those shirts we get at walmart that say 'Made in China' if the factory itself was infected, could the virus survive long enough to spread outside of the nation, without any direct 1-1 contact between people?

So far there is no evidence of that happening. So far it can by transmitted only via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes (it isn't even an airborne virus). By the time those supposed shirts leave China, the droplets have already completely dried out.

 

[Agema]

So far there is no evidence of that happening. So far it can by transmitted only via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes (it isn't even an airborne virus). By the time those supposed shirts leave China, the droplets have already completely dried out.

It may be produced by respiratory droplets, but once on other surfaces even if dried out, the virus may remain capable of infection for some time (possibly days). From there, it is possible - if much less likely - that it could find its way to a host: touch an infected surface, eat your lunch before washing your hands...

 

[Baffle]

I absolutely bet you they are frantically doing calculations to assess what the various human and economic costs of different scenarios are plus the likely probabilities in order to determine their response. I'm also willing to bet you that it's the money that's guiding their actions, not the lives.

Maybe a gig economy in which many people simply cannot afford to not work was a bad idea. Especially, say, carers, who travel from gig to gig visiting people who're already a bit peaky.

 

[Marik2]

Gas is a lot cheaper now.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Well Korea is panicking at the moment. Just looked at some BBC info they posted on youtube. Th virus has made its first kill in Korea, and the number of confirmed cases has been upped to 50. THe main group that has been hit was a sect of christianity that the virus ripped through like the Doom Slayer on easy mode.

Well, it's a good thing the church involved wasn't that next level crazy-ass doomsday cult [https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/24/808914718/secretive-church-sect-at-the-center-of-south-koreas-coronavirus-outbreak] that believes its leader is the second coming of Jesus, which has been implicated in multiple attempted terror attacks. That'd be really fucked up. Right?

 

[Agema]

Maybe a gig economy in which many people simply cannot afford to not work was a bad idea. Especially, say, carers, who travel from gig to gig visiting people who're already a bit peaky.

No, the gig economy is a great idea - for businesses. They don't need to give a shit if half the country can't pay their bills.

With of course the possible exception that they may stop buying things, in which case still no big deal, because that's what government's for, eh? Welfare should keep them buying knick-knacks, or alternatively cut out the middleman plebs and just get a direct bailout.

 

[CaitSeith]

Maybe a gig economy in which many people simply cannot afford to not work was a bad idea. Especially, say, carers, who travel from gig to gig visiting people who're already a bit peaky.

No, the gig economy is a great idea - for businesses. They don't need to give a shit if half the country can't pay their bills.

With of course the possible exception that they may stop buying things, in which case still no big deal, because that's what government's for, eh? Welfare should keep them buying knick-knacks, or alternatively cut out the middleman plebs and just get a direct bailout.

Yeah, because the Great Depression certainly was great for businesses all around, wasn't it? /s

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

No, the gig economy is a great idea - for businesses. They don't need to give a shit if half the country can't pay their bills.

You know, I'm gonna push out of my comfort zone here and discuss a bit more about my personal life to make a point. I used to work at Amazon, and I figured if something like Coronavirus was going to hit the global stage and absolutely explode, it would do it not through passenger aircraft but through major logistics hubs like Amazon's fulfillment network. Hand-packaged freight handled by sick workers and sent by air to the US, fast enough for virii and/or bacteria to survive the trip, and handled here by employees who don't have time to observe proper hygiene and PPE standards (or think it's a big deal). Flu rips through Amazon warehouses like Taco Bell shits through economy-grade toilet paper come flu season and that's after company-provided flu shots and all the requisite messaging about hygiene and disease prevention, so if something like coronavirus made its way into Amazon's fulfillment network it'd be across the country before anyone could come close to stopping it.

When I was still there, I suggested to management and corporate running simulations of how highly-infectious diseases might spread through the network through employee handling so as to create and improve EAP's for it. Hell, I even went so far as to create a plan for how such a simulation might proceed, which with Amazon's inventory software would be trivially easy. Got exactly what you'd expect: "thanks for your input, I'll forward this to Dave Null right away".

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

So far there is no evidence of that happening. So far it can by transmitted only via respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes (it isn't even an airborne virus). By the time those supposed shirts leave China, the droplets have already completely dried out.

It may be produced by respiratory droplets, but once on other surfaces even if dried out, the virus may remain capable of infection for some time (possibly days). From there, it is possible - if much less likely - that it could find its way to a host: touch an infected surface, eat your lunch before washing your hands...

I was at the Doctor's yesterday - I has the flu - and of course they asked about being in china last 30 days, do I know anyone who eats Chinese food, yadda yadda.
And I ended up asking about catching the zombie virus. And he said the current theory is its spread via respiratory droplets, but rather than needing to breathe them in, the droplets can be absorbed into the body via the mucus membrane on the eye. So all those masks the Chinese are wearing? They do absolutely nothing. Not only do they not prevent droplets from escaping or entering, they don't cover the eyes.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

And I ended up asking about catching the zombie virus. And he said the current theory is its spread via respiratory droplets, but rather than needing to breathe them in, the droplets can be absorbed into the body via the mucus membrane on the eye. So all those masks the Chinese are wearing? They do absolutely nothing. Not only do they not prevent droplets from escaping or entering, they don't cover the eyes.

Coronavirii remain viable outside a host for about a month, if I remember right.

Flu can transmit in the same way. Respiratory droplets hit the eye, where they mix with tears. From there, it enters the tear ducts and sinuses due to natural drainage.

 

[IceForce]

Wait, so, all you need is a pair of swimming goggles, and you're safe?

 

[CaitSeith]

Wait, so, all you need is a pair of swimming goggles, and you're safe?

As long as you don't breathe. If it can enter through your eyes, it will definitely enter through the orifices that you use to make air actually go inside your body every few seconds.

 

[bluegate]

Apparently corona virus cases have been discovered roughly 15-20 kilometers away from where I live, happy days people, happy days.

 

[Agema]

Yeah, because the Great Depression certainly was great for businesses all around, wasn't it? /s

My take from the comment I replied to was that if people have to work or not get paid (because they don't have sick leave) then if they don't work because of illness, then as far as businesses go, that's the problem of gig workers to deal with on their own. Indeed, that's the whole point of the gig economy: all sorts of employee problems aren't made problems for employers.

Recession is bad for business, but a substantial chunk of the population being penniless often is much less so: just need the people with money to keep spending.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Recession is bad for business, but a substantial chunk of the population being penniless often is much less so: just need the people with money to keep spending.

Best illustrated by the economic system of c:a 800-1900 AD. A system in which the vast majority of people in Europe, the peasant class, lived just a small step up from subsistence based farming and were any noteworthy wealth accumulation took place over generations. For most people the triangle trade, spice business or East India companies had very little impact on their lives, because they could never begin to afford all those luxuries, not when getting enough salt to preserve pork or fish for the winter was a serious investment. Meanwhile, the top 1% (or less) that was the Nobility, and in the later centuries the wealthy merchant class, basically sustained all international trade by themselves and were the focal point for most domestic trade production.

By modern standards, it'd be like having the top 1% with most the disposable wealth and then another percent or two below them (the "Not Quite As Filthy Rich" 2-3 percent of stockbrokers, large business owners and others that make half a million USD or so a month) with the rest of it, while the rest of us got just enough to get by via bartering and insane frugality. A system like that can absolutely be sustained, as long as we remember the historical lesson that most of us would work to produce consumer products for a very, very limited group of people. As long as the Nobility can throw 30 course dinner parties and employ hundreds of servants for their half a dozen manor, they can keep the economy rolling on their own.

 

[Kwak]

Well, that's America done for. As always, it's not about how to do things the best way according to experts in the field, it's about covering up administrative incompetence and punishing those who try to expose it. Kind of like China.

Officials at the Department of Health and Human Services sent more than a dozen workers to receive the first Americans evacuated from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, without proper training for infection control or appropriate protective gear, according to a whistleblower complaint.
...
The whistleblower is seeking federal protection, alleging she was unfairly and improperly reassigned after raising concerns about the safety of these workers to HHS officials, including those within the office of Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. She was told Feb. 19 that if she does not accept the new position in 15 days, which is March 5, she would be terminated.

The whistleblower has decades of experience in the field, received two HHS department awards from Azar last year and has received the highest performance evaluations, her lawyers said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02/27/us-workers-without-protective-gear-assisted-coronavirus-evacuees-hhs-whistleblower-says/