Costume-Specific Boob Bouncing Coming to DOA5

[RelexCryo]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

 

[John Funk]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

Of course sexual fantasies don't inherently do that. But "even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent" rarely applies in comic books and certainly doesn't apply to Dead or Alive. And really, there comes a point when even theoretically powerful, independent and intelligent characters are ALSO subject to objectification.

Like this [http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/].

 

[RelexCryo]

I have a question.

This is for the ladies (not men who like men, because it's a different situation with you guys).

For the vast majority of heterosexual men, the less a woman wears, the sexier he might find her to be. A lot of heterosexual men feel this way, as which when women go 'why are women hypersexualized', men go '... there are a ton of dudes with their shirts off'.

Ok. So... how would you guys design a man to make him hypersexualized? I don't think a bouncing bulge would really do it, so what will?

It's less about hypersexualization and more about objectification. The super-sexy buxom girls fighting in heels is a male power fantasy. The shirtless ripping-muscle brawny dudes is... also a male powerfantasy. Guys want both; it's not female service as it is a different kind of male fanservice.

For female fanservice? I don't know, it depends on the lady. But rippling beefcake isn't necessarily it.

I am going to quote what I said earlier: Boy Bands are clearly designed to appeal to women, Romance novels are clearly designed to appeal to women, and so are most soap operas. The tendency of specific franchises, and entire genres, to focus on appeasing on just one demographic, is a wide spread issue. Here is my problem with what you said John: You equated designing something for men with treating women as less than human, despite the fact that many entertainment mediums are designed for women, also with a focus on sexualizing men.

Do Boy Bands objectify men? Designing something for a specific demographic- in the case of DOA, men- is not the same as objectifying the group you are attracted to. It is not the same as treating women as mere objects.

I don't recall bringing media aimed at women up at all. I was merely pointing out that the age-old argument of "Yeah, the women are wearing chainmail bikinis and heels in epic fantasy battles, but look at the barbarian men wearing loincloths! There's fanservice for women, too!" isn't really much of an argument at all. It is about objectification, and yes I would argue that tawdry romance novels are objectifying men as games like DOA objectify women. It's just more problematic when women are the ones being objectified, as men have the institutional power on their side to lend that objectification more weight.

With all due respect John, if you feel that sexual fantasies inherently reduce people to mere possessions and objects rather than people, there is something wrong with you. Sexuality is a part of being human, and sometimes the only way to fully realize the fantasies of a particular demographic is to make a piece of entertainment specifically for that demographic. Romance Novels, Comic Books, JRPG's, and a wide variety of video games in general, combine sexually attractive bodies with personalities and character development. If you see that as inherently objectifying, even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent, you need to see a psychologist.

Of course sexual fantasies don't inherently do that. But "even when the characters are powerful, independent and intelligent" rarely applies in comic books and certainly doesn't apply to Dead or Alive. And really, there comes a point when even theoretically powerful, independent and intelligent characters are ALSO subject to objectification.

Like this [http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/].

The issues with starfire and catwoman got a lot of press because they were unique- objectification like that is actually rare in comics, most comic books fill the same role for men that romance novels do for women- they have characters who are attractive, but who also have personalities, power, and intelligence. Saying that it rarely applies in comic books shows a lack of appreciation for, or understanding of, the medium. Moreover, trying to use comic books and dead or alive to support your argument, really doesn't support your claim that romance novels are objectifying.

 

[SmilesX-23]

As long as it still has its fun fast paced combat then I'm all for this. I always loved Dead or Alive for the combat. Kinda makes me sad to see a series with such a great fighting system be completely disregarded due to fanservice.

Just please don't let this be a second Ninja Gaiden 3

 

[Hitchmeister]

It amazes me how Team Ninja stays in business. It's obvious from reading this thread that everybody hates their obsession with jiggle physics and would never waste money on their games. But they just keep churning out game after game that nobody buys.

 

[Paragon Fury]

It amazes me how Team Ninja stays in business. It's obvious from reading this thread that everybody hates their obsession with jiggle physics and would never waste money on their games. But they just keep churning out game after game that nobody buys.

Plenty of people buy their games - Dead or Alive 4 was one of the most popular launch titles for the Xbox 360, and is still popular enough to sell for $40+ even used.

Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden (except for NG3) are considered very good series, with/without the fanservice.

Dead or Alive just isn't as popular amongst "pro" fighting circuits and groups because they tend to be made of up of people who think that if the game doesn't require to do a line of coke and have bionic hands to play then the game isn't "good" enough.

 

[Britisheagle]

Wasn't interested before this announcement, less interested now.

First off the physics are horrendous, number 2 none of the characters really look real and 3 there are plenty of decent fighting games out there, that are focusing on, I don't know, fighting?

Meh. If I wanna see boobs, the internet and real world is full of them so no thanks.

 

[RJ 17]

You know it actually just occurred to me...with a new DoA coming out...........doesn't that mean we can expect DOAXTreme Beach Volleyball 3 shortly after? :3

 

[WanderingFool]

Sssoooooooooo...

Like I ask with Soul Calibur series, how long until they just make the female charaacters naked?

 

[Lt. Rocky]

I can only hope the designers do this for the sake of doing it, and share laughs with one another about it, otherwise I'd be concerned for their thought process.

 

[ATRAYA]

So sick of breast physics in games... How about a decent story and strong gameplay instead? I really hate gimmicks; that's why I haven't watched a movie since Inception. :/

 

[blackrave]

I'm sick of some hypocrites on Escapist forum.
When developers tries new animation techniques to make character movement more natural or their hair react more realistic, everything is ok.
But when developers tries to animate female breasts more organic, then there's is fckng lynch mob gathering and trying to burn developers on the stake.
Why? Yes, Team Ninja may act juvenile and immature regarding this, but in general what they are doing is good thing.
Because it would be great if breast movement would be affected by "clothes" of character
Next thing what they should do is develop similar physics for all breast sizes (00-DD)
If this goes well then they should develop slightly different animations for various breast forms (I think there are 5-6 forms)
And next thing we know "Jiggle Physics" will be written alongside "Speed Tree" and "Havok Physics" on the starting screens of various games
Because it would be simpler for other developers implement better animations for female characters
Everybody wins (Team Ninja gets recognition and additional finances for licensing this, other developers can save time to make good looking females, and gamers gets more games with better animated female characters)

 

[Kargathia]

Now am I saying that we necessarily NEED that? No. I'm perfectly fine with getting light fanservice here and there because I don't play games to drool over guys, I play because it's fun and I like to see stories unfold. That said though, if that's all I get, and that's all the other straight female gamers get, then why should male gamers get more than we do? What makes you so much more special that you can get a game built around fan service and we can't?

I'm not seriously asking Team Ninja to make a game called DoA Men, I'm just asking for a little equality, one way or the other.

Alternatively one might argue that females get better fan-service, as generally it's not facepalm-worthy pandering.

I'm perfectly fine with Team Ninja continuing their overt displays of booby appreciation, but it would be wonderful if these overt and rather ridiculous instances of fanservice would move over to occupy a niche of its own, and not be standard fare for anything aimed at any demographic possibly involving adult males.

 

[tmande2nd]

Just as there are fan service movies, so shall there be fan service games.

 

[Leethe1Girl]

That is actually really cool!

I hope this means that outfits that should hold them up will actually look like they're holding 'em up.

I don't have a problem with big-tittied-chicks... I have considerable knockers myself. But watching them bounce around like they're not supported at all makes me cringe with sympathy boob-ache.

Seriously, guys, it would be like middle-aged balls with no pants, smacking around your knees as you run from the giant purple dildo. Except that your balls are not so heavy that they throw off your balance... unless they are in which case it may be time for new balls.

 

[Leethe1Girl]

Just as there are fan service movies, so shall there be fan service games.

Pfft. Yeah, fan service for.... who exactly?

Talk to me about fan service when there's more scenes of dudes making out in an alley.

 

[tmande2nd]

Just as there are fan service movies, so shall there be fan service games.

Pfft. Yeah, fan service for.... who exactly?

Talk to me about fan service when there's more scenes of dudes making out in an alley.

Who the hell said fan service has to be fair?
Team Ninja is making a fan service game for people attracted to bouncing boobies.

There is no rule that demands you provide equality in fan service.

 

[jthm]

Upon hearing this, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 designers looked up, noted, "Alright, whatever," and then went back to work on gameplay.

y'know, I've always preferred DOA's much more streamlined controls and better over all presentation than Tekken, but I have to concede the point here. I'd be so much more excited if Tecmo had announced that DOA5 would have even tighter controls, more responsive counter systems in place and had rehired Itagaki to lead the team. Boobs are fun to gawk/stare/drool over, but ultimately, I liked DOA2/3/4 because of their gameplay. This does nothing for me.

 

[BaronIveagh]

I'm sort of happy they're releasing it for PS3. Haven't gotten a DOA since 2.

 

[theultimateend]

Okay...Team Ninja I will not get pissed about the boobies....

IF you come out with a DOA Men with the same number of sexy male characters as there are of sexy female characters in the original DOA, clothing transparency, different costumes for each guy, and clothing specific bulge bounce, and lots of fanservice.

Then we're even.

Isn't DOA mostly about rock hard man bodies and sexy women?

And I don't know how large a penis would have to be to "visibly bounce" in your pants, but I have a feeling that arousal would kill you.

@Rest of Thread: Not sure I understand the big drama behind games that decide to prioritize sexuality.

Some games go balls to the walls on violence, others on story, others on sex, or in the case of Tetris, Geometry.

Why is there no up in arms drama about new "violence physics" but people always act noble and uptight when breasts come into the picture.

Feels like people put sexuality too high on a pedestal, just reads unhealthy :/.

I've liked all the DOA's, some of my fondest memories was playing DOA: Hardcore with my friend and trying to counter all his attacks into grapples. I couldn't really compete on Soul Caliber, but DOA was just slow enough to work for me.

I liked Tina and her Father, I forget his name at the moment. Heck, I might be wrong on her name too.

If it were up to me I would slap these perverts right upside the head!
Hey morons! Why don't you focus on making great games and promoting video games as a healthy form of entertainment/art instead of using it to play out your sick fantasies. What they code with one hand and masturbate with the other? People already have a negative view of games so thanks for proving that yes WE are sexually repressed 14 year old immature kids.

Thanks guys.

I've said my piece. And now I leave.

Pointing out a cliche while acting like a phenomenal one yourself is pretty funny.

Just because there is still a large group of puritan minded people alive and kicking does not mean that any group should feel they need to operate within the social norms of that single group.

Had they specialized on bone breaking physics would it be any better? The fact that violence gets a pass but "Sexuality" is immature is mind blowing. Have we really become that deeply ingrained with violence?