Court Shoots Down Bethesda's Scrolls Request

[Denamic]

This stuff is really reminding me of the 'Edge' bullshit way back.

 

[Gmans uncle]

Honestly I can not fathom what Bethesda seek to gain in this matter, they've wasted a lot of money on this stupid law suit, and even if they won (which they wont) their PR with the gaming public is DEAD, they went from being the holy bringers of Oblivion and Fallout 3 to the jerks who picked on Mojang, and have brought themselves down to the level of that edge moron.

They lose on EVERY FRONT!

 

[Robert Ewing]

I'm happy for this, For Mojang coming out on top that is.

 

[ZenoX969]

Well... everyone saw this coming.

 

[Compatriot Block]

BOO! HISS! I was hoping they would knock Notch around a little bit. Fucking Sweden is the problem here. The fact that he is trying to copyright scrolls for every product on the planet is fucking ridiculous.

Need to knock you around with a silly-stick a bit too. It's common practice for trademarks to be filed to cover a bunch of different things. "The Elder Scrolls" for example has trademarks that cover its use in movies, books, sweatshirts, t-shirts, caps etc.

And a trademark is usually not just a word. It's the word as presented in the logo. Look up the RAGE trademark for reference, you'll notice that it specifies the way the 'A' must look, and provides an image of the logo.

Actually, as far as the trademark for The Elder Scrolls goes...

Mojang's "scrolls" application is similarly scattershot, attempting to cover TV shows, radio programs, movies, education materials, clothing of all kinds, videogame consoles, toys, playing cards, puzzles, stand-alone game cabinets in addition to the videogame. The application encompasses four separate trademarks over the course of its weighty 300 words. Zenimax's "Elder Scrolls" patent application, by contrast, is a single sentence: "Pre-recorded CD's and DVD's featuring fantasy games."

Honestly I can not fathom what Bethesda seek to gain in this matter, they've wasted a lot of money on this stupid law suit, and even if they won (which they wont) their PR with the gaming public is DEAD, they went from being the holy bringers of Oblivion and Fallout 3 to the jerks who picked on Mojang, and have brought themselves down to the level of that edge moron.

They lose on EVERY FRONT!

3 pages into the thread and you haven't read even once that Bethesda HAD to defend their trademark in court?

Seriously people, it doesn't matter what common sense you think should apply here. Law is law.

 

[thiosk]

Trademark and copyright law are SO BORING. Big will always be bad, and we weep for the little guy, but the average person has no practical understanding of the laws, so everyone just posts their gut feelings creating so much drivel...

Win or lose, Zenimax protected their trademark.

How am I supposed to type the second part captcha? Seriously, tell me.

Next time, just put a space in for that word. You only need the curvy word, in that case.

 

[seraphy]

I'm just gonna stop you right there. This is why Bethesda's so concerned. Bethesda's also concerned about statements in mojang's submitted trademark that would make it illegal for any game, movie, television show, etc. (any form of visual entertainment) to have the word "Scrolls" in their title or subtitle - going so far as saying the use of the word at all, at any point, would be an infringement unless given the explicit right to do so by Mojang.

You disagree? Show me your source please.

Unfortunately, my source is on the other computer, but I can go get it for you when I get home from school

And this is why it's ridiculous that so many people defend Mojang.

Oh and as for Notch lying and all that... it's because, for example, he's made statements like "we've offered Bethesda to drop the name entirely, but they won't budge."

Not true. Or at least, if it was true, there is no official court document backing it up...... just a twitter post. Very reliable. That's lying.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Trademarks don't work that way, and any of that would not be enforceable in a court. Please do show me your source. And you certainly can't trademark words so that it would be illegal to use them in any sentence.

And that's not lying unless bethesda themselves have said that Mojang haven't offered anything like that. And if they have commented don't you think it is just as likely that Bethesda is lying here. If they have offered out of court to drop the name, obviously there won't be a court document.

 

[efAston]

"...the intended audience for these games are likely to be aware of these differences and, more to the point, unlikely to confuse them" - especially because of the court case.

Saying that people are going to get SKYRIM (huge writing) Elder Scrolls V (tiny writing) mixed up with SCROLLS (...that's it) is like saying people are going to think Hunted: The Demon Forge is an adaptation of the film Hunted (2003). Zenimax does not own the English language, in fact, they hardly own anything, look at their back-catalogue, it's almost all franchise leeching. And the whole time I was playing Oblivion, I don't once remember hearing the word "scroll" or even seeing one. They've got no more rights to RPG fantasy than anyone else.

 

[xPixelatedx]

I don't play the current trend of social or facebook games. I don't get farmvil or miencraft, and I don't know anything about the people who make minecraft. I do know Bethesda and I am very excited for Skyrim; I definitely plan to buy that... But at the same time I cannot believe how many people on the net are so willing to bed over and 'take it' from big companies clearly throwing their weight around and being general asses. I am sorry, you cannot forever claim a single word and forbid everyone else from forever using this word. If that's how it works then Nintendo has a million potential legal battles to claim the word 'super'. Don't even pretend like Bethesda had some right to do that, like this would somehow damage the sales of Skyrim like they say. Who the hell calls Skyrim 'The Elder Scrolls'? It's just a sub-title now, and only one word of that was used by the Minecraft team. They did nothing wrong, and this is just a case of a big developer trying to bulldoze a smaller one.

People who are angry at Bethesda; don't boycott Skyrim. Play it if you really want, then turn it in to a used games store. Companies HATE that, and you still get to play the game! It's win-win!

 

[seraphy]

Bethesda is not trying to copyright "Scrolls", Mojang is.

Nevertheless, I won't argue that point because I agree with your broader point - the copyright of "Scrolls" at all is ridiculous.

The reason why I so vehemently defend Bethesda is two fold: The ignorant masses who don't ACTUALLY know a damn thing about the case, and because if Mojang's copyright is allowed to go through, Bethesda will not be allowed to make "The Elder Scrolls" anymore - they can't even continue to sell previously made games; a clause in the copyright statement says that any previous games with the word in it has to be pulled from sale.

You have to be kidding here, show me that clause please or I assume you are lying.

And even if Scrolls would be allowed for Mojang as a trademark, it wouldn't affect earlier trademarks in any way, so yes Bethesda would still be allowed to sell Elder Scrolls and they wouldn't have to pull their earlier games, nor would it stop them from making them.

Edit.Because I am helpful I decided to find you the trademark application.

http://tdr.uspto.gov/jsp/DocumentViewPage.jsp?85323305/APP20110520090819/Application/2/17-May-2011/sn/false#p=1

I didn't find clause you descriped anywhere.

 

[Hybridwolf]

All's well that ends well. Bethesda defends their trademark, and Notch gets to have the name. I still think the fault lies with Notch, but that's just me. I just hope it bloody well ends now, before Notch's head get's any bigger...

Also really escapist? I've seen some bad titles, but this one is dire. It's condridicted by the first paragrapgh, and it's hardly shot down, as an appeal is still present. very baffeling...

 

[-Dragmire-]

Ah people already delighted at this kind of amuses me considering that Zenimax more or less had to sue for copyright laws reasons or it could lose the copyright. Just because people and companies do this doesn't mean that they always want to do it.

Do you know if they try to defend it(as they are) and lose, will they lose the trademark rights?

Seems like if they lost it would be harder to defend it if they needed to again.

Also really escapist? I've seen some bad titles, but this one is dire. It's condridicted by the first paragrapgh, and it's hardly shot down, as an appeal is still present. very baffeling...

It's just for generating traffic(ad revenue and all that stuff to keep the site up and people paid), at least the article itself is not misleading.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

And I agree with you that Notch is acting like a buffoon. I CANNOT stand him. It's not just that he's happy. It's not just that he's rooting for his side of the situation. it's not just that he's making light of it all. He flat out lies, manipulates, and talks total shit about Bethesda. He should be sued for slander or something.

And your evidence for this would be what?

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I still don't see how Zeni not pursuing this case means they can't sue other similar (possibly more extreme) cases.

Say they didn't sue, and someone tried to trademark The Eldest Scrolls, why would they not be able to sue them.

Still though, I'm glad to see Mojang get a +1.

 

[chadachada123]

The thing we've all established is that, in any sort of "common sense" world, Scrolls is fine and obviously completely different from the Elder Scrolls series.

Additionally, Mojang having Scrolls does not mean that Bethesda can't still have Elder Scrolls.

That, above, is what common sense dictates, and what a jury would agree on.

Why can't they just legally agree to follow what common sense dictates and leave it at that? This way, Bethesda keeps their trademark and all rights related, Mojang keeps ITS trademark and all rights related, and other companies can piss right the fuck off. Everyone wins.

 

[TConti]

The people writing these things about this case seem to be morons with an obvious bias. I'm not talking about the escapist alone but most gaming sites in general just exploded today saying Mojang won. This created great confusion within the majority of people who don't understand legal diction or have not researched all facts in the case. Its been nothing but poor journalism across the board.

 

[Zarkov]

It is good to see the judge making an intelligent decision on the matter. I don't see myself confusing any of The Elder Scroll games with Scrolls from Mojang. A brain dead lawyer working for Zenimax however is a whole different story.

Ugh, It's been said a hundred times.
It's not the hardcore gaming crowd that is going to get confused.
It's the mothers, grandmothers and casual players that might get things crossed.

But that's not even the point.

The point of this whole issue is that Notch filed a trademark on the word scrolls, and when won, mean that HE would own the trademark of that word in any "Fantasy Based Video game" and not only that, but radio, tv-shows and even t-shirts as well.

This would mean that if Bethesda let this happen, Notch can effectively demand that they change their title.

Not only that, but even if Notch and Bethesda were to say "Eh, I know you won't screw us, and you know we won't screw you. So lets ignore this.", then that would mean that other companies would use that as a legal example and thus could Trademark "The Elder Browls" Because Bethesda is okay with such things.

Actually no ... Mojang can't demand a trademark that was there before his company even existed be changed. It doesn't quite work that way.

This is an example of Bethesda taking a small up and coming company to court to bleed them dry. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not concerned by what conclusions others have come to.

Notch isn't small. He might have been, but as of right now he's swimming in money. Loooaads of money. There's no way Bethesda has a chance of bleeding the company out, especially not with another game on the horizon. No, actually, the Elder Scrolls and Scrolls are technically different, and thus when Notch applied for the trademark Bethesda thought this was an aggressive move towards their trademark. Which it could be, but I doubt it.

The best conclusion would be that Bethesda flexes its muscles and Mojang still keeps the title but realizes that it can't to whatever they want with it. Coexisting is better than anything else. Will that happen? Nope, but one can hope.