Critical Miss: The Guide To Skyrim Modders: Part 1
- Thread starter The Wooster
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That might have to do with the people fiercely against the mod never coming up with a single worthwhile argument as to why such a mod, especially when looking at the game it's made for (a game that lets you do the worst things you could imagine to every single innocent adult you see) aside from "because I think it's bad".aftohsix said:
Both sides are filled with absolutely retarded arguments (can you say ad hominem?), stereotypes, illogical thinking and whatnot, so I find it hilarious that you're merely concentrating on one side. In fact, neither of the two sides are worth talking against. It's a stalemate, a stupid vs stupid discussion that will keep going until both sides shut the fuck up and move on to things not as trivial and unimportant as a mod for a game.
You dare to forget the nude and "eye candy" mods!??
Otherwise, I completely agree and, really, it seems that not much has changed from the modding days of Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Otherwise, I completely agree and, really, it seems that not much has changed from the modding days of Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Good comic, but please, no "it's, like, your opinion, man" nonsense over mouse and keyboard vs. controller. It only becomes an opinion thing when you start adding things like comfort and ease of use to the mix. The mouse and keyboard is just objectively better as an input device for controlling a first person 3D game, just like the controller is objectively better for 2D platformers and racing games -- although a racing wheel is better than either option for the latter. I don't mean to start a flamewar, but perpetuating the myth that the controller argument is in any way subjective itself perpetuates the flamewars; that's just about the only ammunition the people who insist that controllers are the best option for all game types, rather than having pros and cons, have left.
Edit: Oh, as for child killing mods: it should have been in the game from the first place. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are both go anywhere, do anything, kill anyone series. The first two fallout games actually did let you kill the kids right out of the box if you wanted to, and The Elder Scrolls just didn't have any kids until Skyrim, aside from a few indoor sprites in Daggerfall -- and you couldn't kill /anyone/ indoors in that game, unless the city guards broke in looking to kill you. The sprites for everyone else indoors were flat and you could clip right through them. Point being, it was a clear case of self censorship and compromise of an artistic vision in Fallout 3's case, and it's just as silly in Skyrim, whether they ever intended to have the kids be killable or not; it just doesn't fit with the ethos of the game to have anyone who isn't plot critical be immortal -- and for that matter, even allowing that was just something they added in Oblivion to make the game harder to accidentally lose. Morrowind really did let you kill anyone, and it would just give you a message about having broken a quest line if you killed a quest giver. This could and occasionally did include the main quest.
Also, the people who mentioned nude mods are right; those are /always/ the first thing anyone does with a new TES construction set.
Edit: Oh, as for child killing mods: it should have been in the game from the first place. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout are both go anywhere, do anything, kill anyone series. The first two fallout games actually did let you kill the kids right out of the box if you wanted to, and The Elder Scrolls just didn't have any kids until Skyrim, aside from a few indoor sprites in Daggerfall -- and you couldn't kill /anyone/ indoors in that game, unless the city guards broke in looking to kill you. The sprites for everyone else indoors were flat and you could clip right through them. Point being, it was a clear case of self censorship and compromise of an artistic vision in Fallout 3's case, and it's just as silly in Skyrim, whether they ever intended to have the kids be killable or not; it just doesn't fit with the ethos of the game to have anyone who isn't plot critical be immortal -- and for that matter, even allowing that was just something they added in Oblivion to make the game harder to accidentally lose. Morrowind really did let you kill anyone, and it would just give you a message about having broken a quest line if you killed a quest giver. This could and occasionally did include the main quest.
Also, the people who mentioned nude mods are right; those are /always/ the first thing anyone does with a new TES construction set.
You do realize that mods are pretty much one of the core reasons for getting a PC right?Tin Man said:
I mean, granted, many of the mods are aesthetics and very simple, some modders have actually managed to create ENTIRE games and in some cases, entire genres out of previous games.
For example, Nightmare House 2 was an entire original mod for the source engine, it has won numerous awards and it is easily one of the better games I've gotten to play.
Garry's Mod is one of the most widely played games on Steam.
A little simple mod in Warcraft managed to spawn an entire multi-million dollar genre out of its simple and competitive style and has spawn several copies and has a sequel on the way. Do you know what it was called (Hint: It was DoTA). Hell, IceFrog, the longest running developer for DoTA, got a job at Valve for his mod.
Some mods even allow the player to actually play the game. Where developers take long stretches of time to address and fix patches, some modders go out and fix the problem for the community.
I really don't see how they can be 'wasting their lives' when they do so much good for the community.
It's less that I think it's bad, and more that I think you think it's good. A very subtle but important difference.SpaceBat said:
I uninstalled that QD_inventory mod. A list o all my shit in small font at the top left of my screen was just plain annoying. And really it's the same thing as the original except instead of down and up to change the category it's left and right. Not that I don't use the favorite system for everything I use on a regular basis anyways.
First of all, I personally don't have the mod. It's illegal to download that mod here and after watching a youtube vid that demonstrated the mod, I felt awful. So I don't like the mod.Cephei Mordred said:
Second of all, only a small portions of all the discussions I've witnessed about this subject were about people absolutely adoring this mod and finding it good. I assume most of the people who download it feel there is no difference between killing innocent adults and kids in a game and therefore enable themselves to cause havoc on all living beings, except just 99% of all innocent beings. it's not finding it bad vs finding it good, it's finding it bad vs indifference.
Of course, I am merely assuming this is the reason, which means my assumption is not based on any facts and might be flawed, just as many anti-mod people's (possibly) false assumption that everyone who downloads this is a sociopath (or whatever you can think of) and plans to murder every child they can find.
Now I just hope that my limited understanding of the English language didn't cause me to completely miss your point or something.
Oblivion always had great mods for good looking women, and anime styled women (go figure; it's much less boring staring at a hairy male ass).darkdoom227 said:
But why no love for less-testosterone-pumped guys? I wouldn't mind playing as an anime male, just doesn't seem to come in high demand. >_>
Okay, fair enough. I just assumed you were all for it from your prior post.SpaceBat said:
Honestly, it's not like I sit up at night thinking about it. I really don't care that much about it at all.
It's just that, when I see someone trying to defend the mod in just about every other way, except just flat out admitting they want to kill virtual children, it makes me wonder what they're playing at, is all.
To explain my own point further:
If the functionality were in there natively, I would not even bat an eye, probably. But modders going out of their way to add the functionality makes me question them.
Anyway, I see no flaws in your english.
The problem with the kids thing is that Beth keep making them cheeky, smug little shits. It's like they want us to want to hurt them.
In the absence of a 'harsh verbal disciplining' mod, I guess killing them is the next best option for people, being the natural first reaction for many to being annoyed with someone in a game.
In the absence of a 'harsh verbal disciplining' mod, I guess killing them is the next best option for people, being the natural first reaction for many to being annoyed with someone in a game.
The least they could have let us do was discipline them by either yelling at 'em or just giving them a little smack upside the head. But no, we just gotta sit there and take shit from kids. Could have at least let us get stern, or tell their parent(s) that their kid is acting up.MiracleOfSound said:
After all, there are plenty of shades between "do nothing while an immortal child bitches you out" and "murder children". But Bethesda doesn't even give us the other extreme...
Modders themselves could have avoided this whole mess by simply calling the mod "mortal children". Or, you know, anything that doesn't imply that killing children is the first thing everyone thinks of.
Honestly, I'm surprised the texture connoisseur isn't looking up the chainmail dress of a female npc...
EDIT:
... maybe they're saving that for next week. /edit
I still say it's alright to have a mod that makes kids vulnerable to non player characters.
EDIT:
... maybe they're saving that for next week. /edit
I still say it's alright to have a mod that makes kids vulnerable to non player characters.
I understand why you'd think that, but nah, I don't like it. Though there's a difference between me not liking it and me being against it. I'm simply indifferent on the matter, that's all. I do tend to defend the downloaders, not because I believe the mod is cool or great or whatever, but simply because the ridiculous and flawed ad hominem attacks only seem to be coming from the other side.Cephei Mordred said:
I understand your view. It's just that I don't personally understand why such a huge uproar was created in the first place. I mean look at this week's comic and look at the fourth panel, it a retarded cheap shot. I simply can't comprehend how people can not bat an eye to every single horrifyingly disturbing thing you can do in this game to every single innocent young adult, adult and small animal, but completely blow up at the announcement of this mod.Cephei Mordred said:
The constant ad hominem attacks, such as the one in this comic, seem to be often completely devoid of common sense. The vanilla game already enables you to behave as a sociopath, this mod adds very little to that. Saying stuff like "Man, these child killing mod downloaders sure are sociopaths" makes as much sense as "Man, the people who are playing skyrim sure are sociopaths".
Person 1: Hey man, so I've seen you've been playing skyrim. What have you been doing the last few hours?
Person 2: Oh nothing. I just killed every innocent person I could find, chased them as they ran away from me in fear, cornered them and chopped their head off with a perk that allows you to do so. I then gathered up their heads and bodies, placed them in weird positions in my house and hung their heads to a wall by piercing them with arrows. And you?
Person 1: I was walking around when a dragon attacked. I was attacking it with magic when a kid got in the way, so he died. I then finished off the drago--
Person 2: You sick fuck! Get away from me you sociopath!
Person 2: Oh nothing. I just killed every innocent person I could find, chased them as they ran away from me in fear, cornered them and chopped their head off with a perk that allows you to do so. I then gathered up their heads and bodies, placed them in weird positions in my house and hung their heads to a wall by piercing them with arrows. And you?
Person 1: I was walking around when a dragon attacked. I was attacking it with magic when a kid got in the way, so he died. I then finished off the drago--
Person 2: You sick fuck! Get away from me you sociopath!
That's what modders do. I doubt it was created because a lot of people simply can't wait to murder children, but more likely because they could simply add it. Some modders spend their time creating the most ridiculous or nonsensical stuff, so this certain mod doesn't really surprise me or raise questions.Cephei Mordred said:
In the end people keep forgetting that this is all fake. All of the NPC's on the screen are just a bunch of codes and nothing more. I thought sensible gamers as a whole believed that they could differentiate between fantasy and reality. Attacking people with words like sociopath and psychopath for enabling the deletion of a bunch of codes is nonsensical, not just because it's all fake and does not necessarily mean anything, but also because the violent things that games as a whole have enabled us to do COMPLETELY overshadows what this mod allows us to do. Being desensitized to something doesn't make that something more objectively right or wrong, it just changes our opinion of it.
Yeah exactly. Let us snap back at them at least and send them running off crying to mommy.Irridium said:
That being said, I'm not in favour of killing kids in games but Mayor McCready almost pushed me over the edge.
I'd install it just to take out the stupid vampire girl with the Dark Brotherhood. Not only is she a stupid, smug little c...child, her voice acting is *horrible*. Plus, she's not technically a child, so it doesn't make me crazy, right? *twitch twitch*FelixG said:
And the worst part,
When the Sanctuary was burning and everyone was dead and I thought I had finally gotten rid of her, NOPE.JPG