Criticism of Anime and Manga

[Flying Pilgrim]

Desert Punk and Cowboy Bebop are two original anime's in many ways.

 

[KissofKetchup]

Ohwaityoureseriousletmelaughharder.jpg

Man, that's funny. You've done absolutely no research. There's a picture that proves you completely wrong with this, but I don't have it on this computer right now. I'm sure someone else will post it, though.

I'm pretty sure that picture isn't necessary with a brilliant line like this in the OP, "Looking at Astro Boy, the first really successful anime series, the style looks almost identical to anime series today like One-Piece or Bleach."

Spoiler

OP suffers from blindness?

Ok I shouldn't have said identical, but they still are very similar

 

[NeutralDrow]

My major criticism of anime and manga is that there is a lack of any really different artistic styles, save the styles of traditional anime and the cutsey Hello Kitty-esque style.

*<url=http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4929/animedesignstyles.jpg>cough*

Also, I don't quite get how you're calling <url=http://www.watchcartoononline.com/thumb/astro-boy-2003-episode-50-english-dubbed.jpg>this and <url=http://www.psp-themes.net/data/media/3/one%20piece.jpg>this the same or near to it.

I guess my point is that those two pictures that you have produced are more closely related than the Looney Tunes and Spongebob.

So? Looney Tunes and Spongebob are more closesly related than, say, Momotaro's Sea Eagles and K-On. Or Crayon Shin-chan. Or Paprika. Or Cat Soup.

 

[Gigaguy64]

Ohwaityoureseriousletmelaughharder.jpg

Man, that's funny. You've done absolutely no research. There's a picture that proves you completely wrong with this, but I don't have it on this computer right now. I'm sure someone else will post it, though.

I'm pretty sure that picture isn't necessary with a brilliant line like this in the OP, "Looking at Astro Boy, the first really successful anime series, the style looks almost identical to anime series today like One-Piece or Bleach."

Spoiler

OP suffers from blindness?

Ok I shouldn't have said identical, but they still are very similar

How?
Astro is a Round, more Western style.
Bleach is Sharp with a lot of flowing actions.

If anything Astro is more similar to Betty Boop.

 

[Dags90]

I dont even know how you can say American Toons changed all that much since the fifties and not say the same about anime.

If anyhitng, the back drops just got a bit more touched up and the pictures drawings got crisper for american cartoons. you can always seem the same style.
for example, if a character is going it interact with something in the background from the foreground, the BG item in question its different, more there then the rest of the BG. its tired, and visible in all American cartoons.

That always pissed me off, especially when watching Scooby Doo or Johnny Quest. All of the traps, hidden levers and soon-to-be destroyed scenery were always slightly lighter than the rest of the background. Totally gave away any sort of suspense to that. I think that has to do with the animation techniques rather than style though.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

Well, thats a fanservice anime/manga before its really anyhting else. Like a good portion of the Rosario+vampire manga/anime or most things that reach stateside only to be criticized as low grade porn.

However, if you think its all the same, even design wise, you should check out the manga Bitter Virgin.

And you tell me the American cartoon/comic book that so brazenly does the same that Bitter Virgin does (though i should warn there is partial nudity in it. Its a bout a girl that well... for various reasons has had two kids and she's only about 16, so they show flash backs of how she got the two kids for plot).

 

[NeutralDrow]

Do me a favour. After I snap, travel to japan and execute every fucker that worked on that atrocity, everyone from the owner of the studio, down to the voice actors, artists, even the night janitor. After they finally manage to pump enough rounds in through the windows to finally bring me down after my major shootout. As they wheel my bloodied, mangled corpse away. Just let them know one thing for me please.

It was totally worth it.

Let it be known that if you're going after the studio that also produced The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Monster, Ninja Scroll, Tokyo Godfathers, Barefoot Gen, Chobits, Vampire Hunter D, Perfect Blue, Paranoia Agent, Paprika, Hajime no Ippo, Sakura Taisen, Boogiepop Phantom, Millenium Actress, Galaxy Angel, Ichigo 100%, and Record of Lodoss War, among other things...well, I'm going to have to get in your way.

And if you try to harm the man who voices Archer, trust me. Your body will be riddled with bullets long before you get to Japan.

...not that I'm all that fond of High School of the Dead, either.

 

[Yoshemo]

Lack of art styles? I can tell which anime is which from the artstyle. ...if I've seen it before that is

 

[Jason Danger Keyes]

I personally do not like anime and manga and never have really, with the exceptions of the Pokémon TV anime back when I was obsessed with the franchise back in the late 90's, and getting into Dragonball Z for about a week and then losing interest. Bear in mind that I do have somewhat limited experience with anime and manga, however I have done a bit of research in writing this post.

My major criticism of anime and manga is that there is a lack of any really different artistic styles, save the styles of traditional anime and the cutsey Hello Kitty-esque style. To me, pretty much all anime that is out there looks stylistically the same to me. Looking at Astro Boy, the first really successful anime series, the style looks almost identical to anime series today like One-Piece or Bleach. The utter lack of originality in artistic style in my opinion is kinda sad.
Compare that to American animation. Looney Tunes of the 1950's look nothing like cartoons of today like Spongebob or Ed, Edd, & Eddy. American animation today bears very little semblance of it's ancestors.

Let it be known that I am not trying to bash anime or manga and say that people who like it are studpid or anything like that. I'm only trying to spell out my perspective of how I view it. Please, if you are an anime fan, please post a response as I am deeply curious of what you think.

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention the many different styles of anime that are out there. I will concede my ignorance.

I actually find this to be extremely untrue. The animation and character design differs from artist to artist and group to group. As you used DBZ as an example I will do the same. I can look at a character and pretty much immediately tell that it was designed by Akira Toriyama. There are similarities that appear in many (not all) anime but there are a great deal of differences.

I find that this only occurs to people who are familiar with a form, be it art or music or cuisine or whatever. Where I can immediately tell which guitarist plays what solo in songs by bands I like on first listen based on their inflection and nuance, someone unfamiliar with that style of music or even that band probably wouldn't. Some people even swear they can tell the difference between coke and pepsi.

To someone already invested in anime, the stylistic differences are more pronounced. To someone on the outside (such as OP and myself) the general lack of clear distinction between anime art styles can be off-putting and make it harder to get into. The fact that you can look at and anime and instantly know it's an anime is indicative of this. It uses a specific set of motifs and styles, and rarely alters them in a clearly distinctive way.

OP's argument isn't that anime is all the same, it's that there is significantly less visual variety between series and artists compared to american cartoons.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I dont even know how you can say American Toons changed all that much since the fifties and not say the same about anime.

If anyhitng, the back drops just got a bit more touched up and the pictures drawings got crisper for american cartoons. you can always seem the same style.
for example, if a character is going it interact with something in the background from the foreground, the BG item in question its different, more there then the rest of the BG. its tired, and visible in all American cartoons.

That always pissed me off, especially when watching Scooby Doo or Johnny Quest. All of the traps, hidden levers and soon-to-be destroyed scenery were always slightly lighter than the rest of the background. Totally gave away any sort of suspense to that. I think that has to do with the animation techniques rather than style though.

it does. It makes it easier on the animator for the characters to interact with setting, especially early cartooning/animations. Cause my BGs look like flat photo graphs, so the animater can go for seotmhing of a 2.5D thing.

Its just the fact that its in a good portion (if not all) cartoons in america and yet the OP decided to rip on anime for what he claims as being "the same style."

 

[Weaver]

The thing is anime generally looks a certain way, that's part of what makes it what it is.
There is enough variation (IMO of course) in the art styles that I could differentiate a scene between one show and another if shown at random.

On a quasi-related note: Holy shit, the escapist anime defense force is really came out blazing this time. I think you guys need to stop taking every criticism or opinion of the genre besides "it's amazing" like an insult to your mother's grave. It's the same every time I state a valid criticism of a JRPG like saying "the acting in star ocean: the last hope was really bad", which then equates to 400 inbox messages saying how I hate every JRPG ever made, that I don't understand Japan and am probably a racist.

 

[Yoshemo]

Ohwaityoureseriousletmelaughharder.jpg

Man, that's funny. You've done absolutely no research. There's a picture that proves you completely wrong with this, but I don't have it on this computer right now. I'm sure someone else will post it, though.

I'm pretty sure that picture isn't necessary with a brilliant line like this in the OP, "Looking at Astro Boy, the first really successful anime series, the style looks almost identical to anime series today like One-Piece or Bleach."

Spoiler

OP suffers from blindness?

Ok I shouldn't have said identical, but they still are very similar

Are you kidding? They look nothing alike! Its like saying spongebob looks very similar to Bevis and Butthead

 

[Ninonybox_v1legacy]

You have made Lucy very angry, very angry indeed....run.

And Konata just laughs at you.

 

[Steppin Razor]

Ok I shouldn't have said identical, but they still are very similar

Astro Boy has a more rounded design, a very low level of detail, strong contrasting colours and giant eyes. Bleach is sharper and crisper, has a much greater level of detail (just look at the hair and muscles) and has a much more realistic style of shading applied to it.

How about this then - compare Astro Boy to The Place Promised In Our Early Days to Darker Than Black:

Spoiler

And for shits and giggles, let's throw out a comparison to Dead Leaves:

Spoiler

 

[Sacman]

however I have done a bit of research in writing this post.

You know Fox reporters did "research" before they talked about the "Sex Simulator" known as Mass Effect... just saying they looked like complete idiot...<.<

OT: Your obviously looking in the wrong places...<.<

Spoiler: Examples...

[img height= 475]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2701/lain2hm0.jpg[/img]​

[img height= 300]http://7mangas.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/gankutsuou_22.jpg[/img]

 

[blankedboy]

OP only watches kids' animes.
Watch Higurashi, then criticize again xD

 

[Gigaguy64]

Ok I shouldn't have said identical, but they still are very similar

Astro Boy has a more rounded design, a very low level of detail, strong contrasting colours and giant eyes. Bleach is sharper and crisper, has a much greater level of detail (just look at the hair and muscles) and has a much more realistic style of shading applied to it.

How about this then - compare Astro Boy to The Place Promised In Our Early Days to Darker Than Black:

Spoiler

And for shits and giggles, let's throw out a comparison to Dead Leaves:

Spoiler

AstroisRoundandBleachisSharpminds.jpg
Also Astro's design is a bit heaver, and many characters in the series are Bulkier and the overall movement is slower(Style wise not Animation wise).

The majority of Bleach characters are more streamlined and the flow of action/style is a lot faster and expressive.

I freaking loved Dead Leaves btw.

 

[Falconus]

I dont even know how you can say American Toons changed all that much since the fifties and not say the same about anime.

If anyhitng, the back drops just got a bit more touched up and the pictures drawings got crisper for american cartoons. you can always seem the same style.
for example, if a character is going it interact with something in the background from the foreground, the BG item in question its different, more there then the rest of the BG. its tired, and visible in all American cartoons.

That always pissed me off, especially when watching Scooby Doo or Johnny Quest. All of the traps, hidden levers and soon-to-be destroyed scenery were always slightly lighter than the rest of the background. Totally gave away any sort of suspense to that. I think that has to do with the animation techniques rather than style though.

That's because of the way cel animation works. every layer was painted on clear celluloid and put in this press and photographed. But because we're looking through several sheets of plastic the upper layers appear lighter. Nowadays painting and compositing is done digitally so we don't get this problem.

 

[KissofKetchup]

however I have done a bit of research in writing this post.

You know Fox reporters did "research" before they talked about the "Sex Simulator" known as Mass Effect... just saying they looked like complete idiot...<.<

OT: Your obviously looking in the wrong places...<.<

Spoiler: Examples...<.<

[img height= 475]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2701/lain2hm0.jpg[/img]​

[img height= 300]http://7mangas.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/gankutsuou_22.jpg[/img]

Ok my research wasn't A+ work, but I wasn't saying that anime totally blows and or You're a pedophile if you read manga. I may not like anime, but I do respect it.

 

[Vykrel]

im not a fan of anime, although there are a few that i love (Trigun, Yu Yu Hakusho, original Pokemon series, etc.) but i wish they didnt all look the same.

its as if the majority of popular animes are all created by the same artist. kinda bugs me that the creators originality usually stops at the story