Crysis 2 Writer: Halo is "Full of Bullsh*t"

archvile93

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To answer his question about Bioshock: me. Yeah I observed the scenery, but all I thought about while doing so is "Why the fuck should I care?" Also, the actual gameplay aspect of the fucking game was as god awful as MW2s plot. Yes, a good plot can make a good game great or a great game fantastic, but the fact is there is no excuse in the world for horrendous gameplay. I don't care how amazing Crysis 2's story is, if the gameplay doesn't measure up I'm not wasting 50 bucks on it. This guy really doesn't seem to get the point of games. You're supposed to play them, not watch them.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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PaulH said:
I'm not taking any view other than my own and a million other academics out there. I'm stating a *fact* that without critical analysis you lack the ability to improve upon an existing ideology, standard, treatise or praxeological modus operandi.

If you're of the category that believes 'games are art', then you must also assume that a standard of gameplay should be artistic. That it should impart a narrative no differently then other media (such as books, movies and televised series) COMBINED with interactive gameplay.

To address your second point, if I were to write a book on Voltaire's 'Essai sur les moeurs et l'espirit des nations' who would I choose to take criticism from?

The idiot on the street corner saying "Dude ... not cool ... so boring man...." or another Historian such as a lecturer or academic researcher?

HE'S BIASED ... like every other intellectual on the planet. Academics fight like cats in a bloody bag, particularly in the Arts and Humanities. But hell even in the SCIENTIFIC community you get SERIOUS bitchslapping between the intelligentsia of the various Sciences.

The public opinion, in most cases, is WRONG. Great movies won't be seen because 'transformers' is screening at the same time and idiots will go see that instead.

Likewise, great games won't be played because mediocre games of 'super-hype' levels (Like every single Halo/spinoff game after the first) is being released at the same time and most kiddies need to bug mum to buy them something.

Seriously ... the biggest problem with games is that a huge community of the people that play them are CHILDREN who are more infatuated with pretty lights than engrossing characters and a well told narrative.

Personally, I am going to give a hell of alot more credence to the veteran game writer then I am even the 'general public' ... if only because 20% of that general public still huggles 'Mr Wubsy' before going to bed and needs a nightlight.

Hell, get Bungie's creative staff vs. Crysis' creative staff to have a ***** about each of their 'paradigm restructuring' games and that would be a cause for win. Two teams of intellectuals bitching about how cruddy eachother's games are. That would still be far better than 1/4 of the "general public's" opinions.
Okay, okay, I'm not going to get into a massive debate with you over how terrible we are as a species, and how doomed we are without the guiding voice of people complaining about stuff. But really, my point wasn't about whether he was right or wrong.

It's just, did he have to be such a dick about it? Couldn't he have refrained from swearing about it like those very 12 year olds you are complaining about yourself? Of course, it doesn't help when The Escapist posts it under the heading 'Halo is "Full of Bullsh*t"'.

But to address one point, I didn't say 'general public', I said 'audience'. I wasn't very clear, but I wasn't trying to suggest any random person would be the perfect commentator on it. My bad.

But screw it, this thread is full of incredibly smug people banging on about how grand their opinions are and how foolish those who disagree with them are. Your post is one of the nicer ones. I'm out.
 

luckshot

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Mornelithe said:
luckshot said:
Mornelithe said:
As much as I liked Crysis/Crysis Warhead, I don't know much about Halo, but I can say at the very least, that Bungee actually optimized their code for the platform they were on. Unlike the abortion Crytek's currently working on. As for the writing? Heh...anyone who's played Warhead, knows the writing wasn't exactly....the most important factor of the games lol.
he did not write for crysis/warhead. he IS CURRENTLY writing for crysis 2. and read the interview
The interview means nothing to me, as this game has already been wiped off my radar. I'm sure it'll be a fantastic corridor shooter for the consoles. But, since they purposefully dumbed down the PC version to match the consoles, I can think of a great many things more important to do with my money.
but not anything better to do with your time apparently
 

BritishWeather

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Andy Chalk said:
"I can't believe that there are players out there who rush through Dead Space [http://deadspace.ea.com/], or BioShock, without taking any time to just look around or to take in any of the story strands. Why would you pay 50 bucks for a game, then ignore 50 percent of its content? It's like, 'Hey, I'm reading this book, but it's a bit long, so I'm going to rip the last half out'."
So true lol.[/quote]

It's like if you take your time in some games like fallout 3, god of war and what not you'll see a hell of a lot more content.
 

Starke

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Donnyp said:
Starke said:
Given that Crysis was written by someone else with no prior writing experience? It's kinda a moot point.
lol. If anything that means more. You have someone who is a seasoned writer and someone who has written one thing and he just starts to spout bullshit....sounds like a feasible debate to me....well on the internet at least lol. Its like arguing with a doctor cause you've been to the doctors before.
Maybe you're being obtuse, maybe I'm being unclear. Crysis was written by someone who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Crysis 2 is being written by (literally) an award winning critically acclaimed novelist with 9 novels in print. If we assume that the latter knows what the fuck he's talking about, when it comes to writing (a reasonable assumption), then he might have some understanding of the subject.

I haven't seen him spout any bullshit to date. The only bullshit I see here is the Journalist who handled the quote fucking around with it to make a controversy.
 

Starke

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starwarsgeek said:
Well isn't that professional of him...
Actually, yes, it is. It's called a lit review. Also called doing the work he's being paid to do. He never said "halo is bullshit" or "halo is full of bullshit" so the person who's professionalism should be called into question, is probably the interviewer that then decided to invent a quote for his headline.
 

Starke

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DannibalG36 said:
There is one word for this guy: arrogant. Well, Mr. Morgan, you had better hope to heaven that Crysis 2 has a good story, or I will personally hunt you down for being a pompous d*^$khead. Halo's story is "bulls^&t"? What? Since when did an epic story arc that delivers an awesome (yet simple) narrative become bulls^&t?
Yeah, see. HE NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT.

DannibalG36 said:
True, Master Chief is never fully characterized and is never given a face, BUT this makes him a much more relatable character. Why? His lack of a face allows gamers to place themselves in his boots and in his helmet with ease, since there is little already occupying the Chief's armor.
I resent the implication that I cannot be expected to relate to a character if they have a personality. Seriously though, the quote closest to the headline is "Halo is full of these bullshit archetypal characters." You know what? He's right. There's no character development, at least not that I can recall. It's either a flaw in the structure or an endearing trait. Which it ends up being is entirely personal opinion.
DannibalG36 said:
Secondly, Mr. Morgan must remember that games are about GAMEPLAY, not the story. If I want a book, I'll go to the library; if I want a magnificent story, I'll read the Silmarillion or Absalom, Absalom. If I want to have some fun, I'll get a game.
Yeah... see... if you're going to tear into someone, at least do your fucking research first. He is arguing that you can have a story and good gameplay. There's no reason it has to be one and not the other. That's like saying I really like coffee, but I can't have coffee if I'm going to eat a doughnut. It's not the same fucking thing, and they're not exclusive. Which is exactly what he's arguing.

If you want a magnificent story and you go to the Silmarillion you're going to be really fuckin' disappointed. You know why? Because it's the unfinished notes of a guy who was too much of a perfectionist to settle on something and publish it.

DannibalG36 said:
What makes a game fun? Shooting a gun is fun. Solving a puzzle is fun. Using the Gravity Gun to blow a hapless Civil Protection guard into a wall of the Citadel is fun. Putting three rounds into a Grunt's methane tank and sticking him with a plasma grenade is wicked fun. A story just gives a reason for whatever fun I'm having. Why am I solving this puzzle? Why am I in the Citadel, fighting Civil Protection? Why am I shooting the Grunt? These are the questions a story answers; in other words, a story gives my fun a reason.
What's funny here is you've given two examples where the key to the writing is as much in the atmosphere it generates. Without the setting, which is a product of art design and writing, Half-Life 2 would have been forgotten within a year or two. The story, and the way its portrayed are the reasons the game is still around. The way the story in the original Half-Life informed the game design is the only reason we have a Half-Life 2 at all, for that matter.

DannibalG36 said:
This, Mr. Morgan, is what Halo's story did well. It gave me a reason to smear an Elite's guts on a rock face, a reason to get off the Pillar of Autumn in a Warthog, a reason to take out that Scarab. Halo gave the player a gun and told him to save the universe, lest humanity perish at the hands of an alien race. Cliche? Yes. Awesome? HELL YEAH (and don't say it isn't, because just about every other sci-fi shooter does the same thing, be it Half-Life or Mass Effect).
Who said Crysis wasn't awesome? I mean the story is cliched as fuck, and the gameplay is a little unintuitive at times. But, seriously, it's an awesome game. Crysis Warhead was even more awesome. Awesome isn't an absolute state. With a good story to back it, an average game becomes good. A good game gets better. A really good game becomes fucking awesome, and a fucking awesome game blows your goddamn mind.

Let's look at two examples.

Half Life 2. As a shooter it's above average. Nothing to write home about. The gravity gun was novel, but it wasn't really a surefire component of the success. (Look at all the games that aped it, Doom3 for example, that didn't benefit from it.) What really nails HL2 into the awesome category is the story, as it's presented. Some of that isn't traditional writing, but it works, and that is why we remember it six years later.

Bioshock. Okay, frankly, as a shooter, an RPG, or survival horror Bioshock is a wreck. The Difficulty is non-existant. The shooter mechanics are bland. The RPG system isn't roleplaying. There's really no specialization options that define who your character is. As survival horror it's way too fucking easy. And yet it's 2007's game of the year. Why? Because of the story. The story and the toys you play with make the game fantastic. Without a good story, this game would have been as completely overlooked as System Shock and SS2.

DannibalG36 said:
So, Mr. Morgan, don't knock a story that gives excellent support to one of the greatest gameplay experiences in the industry. You're either extremely naive or a newcomer to the gaming industry. Love or hate Halo, you've got to respect it.
Honestly, I don't. I'm not Mr. Morgan. Unlike him, I'm not a newcomer to the game industry. But, like Mr. Morgan, I understand something critical. There's nothing special about Halo. If you were ten years older you'd probably understand, but Halo wasn't new. It streamlined some features, and polished the gameplay. But it wasn't new or revolutionary in the way the original Half-Life was. It's predecessor, Marathon has a more developed narrative, was more revolutionary, and it still gives you a justification to shoot things, but it does all of this without sacrificing it's tone setting weird acid trip narrative.

The only people who "[have] got to respect Halo." Are Xbox fanboys who were first introduced to the FPS through Halo, and the Journalists they flame for questioning the hegemony of their sacred cow.
 

SFR

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Actually, the Halo story seems to be pretty good and interesting... it's just not really in the games o_O.
 

CopperBoom

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"I don't like the Halo series at all. Okay, Halo is not actually bad, it's just, you know, average," he explained.

No, no, it is terrible.
 

cheese_wizington

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Paladin666 said:
Old Trailmix said:
The story to Halo (at least the first one) isn't really that bad. Also, read the Halo books. They're incredible. (Most of them.)

Also, it seems that this writer is quite the pottymouth.
Umm halo books seem like a 10 year old kid was sitting at a desk yelling at a writer.
Maybe you should actually read them before you blatantly insult something you know absolutely nothing about.
 

Starke

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Donnyp said:
Starke said:
Maybe you're being obtuse, maybe I'm being unclear. Crysis was written by someone who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. Crysis 2 is being written by (literally) an award winning critically acclaimed novelist with 9 novels in print. If we assume that the latter knows what the fuck he's talking about, when it comes to writing (a reasonable assumption), then he might have some understanding of the subject.

I haven't seen him spout any bullshit to date. The only bullshit I see here is the Journalist who handled the quote fucking around with it to make a controversy.
I didn't get the full information then. Also i did say what i said as a Joke and don't think writers should judge anothers work until it has been judged by fans/readers and then they can talk about why theirs was that way and then they can also talk about why they dislike others. Just saying its shit is stupid in my eyes.
To be honest, I haven't seen him talk much at all about Crysis 2's writing, aside from some procedural insights into how he writes characters and how he's been working with the team. In the interviews of his I've read, he tends to be pretty careful to keep his opinions of other material away from comparisons with other existing material.

The other thing is, he's been both complementary and critical of the industry material. Picking out things he felt worked from other franchises. To date, I've yet to see anyone pick up on his comments about Drake's Fortune and Drake's Fortune 2, which are actually quite positive.

Old Trailmix said:
Paladin666 said:
Old Trailmix said:
The story to Halo (at least the first one) isn't really that bad. Also, read the Halo books. They're incredible. (Most of them.)

Also, it seems that this writer is quite the pottymouth.
Umm halo books seem like a 10 year old kid was sitting at a desk yelling at a writer.
Maybe you should actually read them before you blatantly insult something you know absolutely nothing about.
Though, that mental image is kinda hilarious. My impression was that the Halo novels were handed to staff writers, who were in general competent and did some decent story development work. And that, as a whole, the novels were superior to the game's narrative; rendering the setting in far greater detail (pun not intended).

That said, the plot for Halo is best described as minimalist, which works well, and I'd much rather have a team who aren't the strongest writers realize that and work around it, (Crytek did this by hiring an outside writer, while Bungie and Id have done this by pushing their stories to the fringes) than a team of average writers push the story in my face, like Bioware.
 

TOGSolid

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This is the sort of article that comes back to bite you in the ass. I'm almost hoping Crysis 2 tanks just so that we can make fun of him later on now.
 

Riven Armor

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I'm going to come out and disagree with the assessment of Halo's plot/characters as subpar...coming from the same people who talk about the same aspects of HL2 as leagues above. I don't believe they are.

Yes, Master Chief is a Space Marine, being strong and silent most of the time, but, uh, he actually has dialogue as opposed to some other guy we know. Cough. To a certain extent I also take issue with the very idea of applying the Space Marine archetype - what constitutes one of them, anyway? Literally it would be the Warhammer 40K Space Marines, which embody every comical exaggeration of masculinity possible. In contrast, Master Chief's portrayal in Halo is quite restrained.

When it comes down to it, one of the reasons the main characters in Halo sufficed for so many people is because they were calm and stalwart in a universe where so much was going wrong. The Covenant was already making huge strides, what with glassing human colonies right and left, and that's before the Flood showed up to pose an existential threat to every other sentient being in the galaxy. But you don't see the Chief whining about it. Instead, just as in the famous diorama Halo 3 trailer, he symbolizes hope. That's something people can believe in.

Additionally, much of Halo's intended influence is in the aesthetic details. The simple scale of the ring resolving to a thin white line in space over your head, the vast pyramid you had to climb in one of the snow levels in the first game, the stable elegance in Forerunner architecture, and most definitely the well-crafted music. Halo's soundtrack isn't an afterthought as in so many other games. When you are playing the game, it actually acts to inspire.

I'll admit that some plot elements degraded significantly by the time the third game came out. Bungie was so bent on convincing everyone that the Flood weren't just a bunch of space zombies that they actually turned them into a non sequitur instead. There's really no good reason why the Flood show up on Earth in the third game other than to provide the requisite third faction.

Having said that, though, their introduction in the first game was very well-crafted and a great example of affecting storytelling. A book medium would run for tens of pages just trying to create the atmosphere of the swamp installation and the grunt blood smeared on the walls. This kind of quiet realization just doesn't happen in, say, Modern Warfare 2. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that Halo doesn't oversaturate with noise precisely because they want you to appreciate the atmosphere.
 

KaiRai

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This guy must have at least a hundred dollars for how many of his two cents he's giving out. Still though, with one of the Crysis writer's bashing MW, and one (Or the same person, can't remember if it is or not) bashing Halo, I'm curious to see what processor raping game they come up with next. Assuming this one actually leaves my computer alive long enough to complete.